Author Topic: Brain fingerprinting test  (Read 165 times)

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Offline notsure

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Brain fingerprinting test
« on: July 13, 2017, 08:51:AM »
I have been reading a lot about the Stephen Avery case and Kathleen zellners (his lawyers) appeal application.

Seems to me that defence attorneys don't do the job they are employed to do in examining the case from every angle. She certainly does.

She has had this test done on Avery and I wondered what people would make of it if jb was put to the test.

In many ways it's like a lie detector test but wanted to know your thoughts. I'm working from my phone at the moment so not sure if I can post the link but if you go to her website the application is on there in PDF formatand it's around the 160 page mark.

Jb could Joe certainly do with a lawyer like her imo

Offline lookout

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Re: Brain fingerprinting test
« Reply #1 on: July 13, 2017, 10:31:AM »
I'm not sure about this method,notsure.  It would take a clever neuroscientist to " read " a person's thoughts in this way and to enable to look for criminal tendencies on someone who isn't already on the criminal radar.
My personal method would be the MRI scan of the brain which would show the brain's structure,size and whether the " wiring " is different to that of a normal brain------mainly on the frontal lobe which controls behaviour and emotion.

Offline Caroline

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Re: Brain fingerprinting test
« Reply #2 on: July 13, 2017, 11:04:AM »
Not sure which website notsure is referring to but here is an overview http://www.larryfarwell.com/brain-fingerprinting-overview-dr-larry-farwell-dr-lawrence-farwell.html

I DO think this would be useful but if there is even the slightest danger that false positive results can be obtained, it could be dangerous. However, it is interesting and would be interesting to find out if Jeremy would agree to such a test.
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Offline Caroline

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Re: Brain fingerprinting test
« Reply #3 on: July 13, 2017, 11:13:AM »
Here is an in depth study of how it works and it's limitations. Not sure that it is relevant to to this case as the information being presented to the subject has to be something only he/she would know, something that hasn't been in the public domain.

http://www.lawrencefarwell.com/pdf/Dr-Lawrence-Farwell-Brain-Fingerprinting-P300-MERMER-Review-Cognitive-Neurodynamics-Dr-Larry-Farwell.pdf 
100% GUILTY - No doubts!

Offline lookout

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Re: Brain fingerprinting test
« Reply #4 on: July 13, 2017, 11:14:AM »
JB would already have been questioned over the years ( 27 psychiatrists in all ) psychoanalysing him in their different fields of psychiatry. I would doubt that anyone could further that,apart from having a scan

Offline Caroline

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Re: Brain fingerprinting test
« Reply #5 on: July 13, 2017, 11:52:AM »
JB would already have been questioned over the years ( 27 psychiatrists in all ) psychoanalysing him in their different fields of psychiatry. I would doubt that anyone could further that,apart from having a scan

This isn't the same as being questioned by a psychologist/psychiatrist. Read the information - it claims to be 100% accurate in tests and real life studies; producing no false/positives and no false negatives. It does however, rely on the accuracy of the individuals memory and only works where there is information that only the killer could know, it also depends on the accuracy of the information held by the authorities etc. If the police believe that a certain thing happened during the crime, but it didn't then clearly, this test would provide  a negative result but that doesn't mean the person is innocent (or guilty). It doesn't measure lies or truth, guilt of innocence - just memory.

Dr Lawrence Farwell and his team even offered $100,000.00 to anyone who thought they could beat the test and taught them countermeasures that had previously been effective in non-brain fingerprinting tests. No one has been successful yet.

It's interesting and a BIG step forward from the polygraph IMO.
100% GUILTY - No doubts!

Offline notsure

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Re: Brain fingerprinting test
« Reply #6 on: July 13, 2017, 12:10:PM »
This isn't the same as being questioned by a psychologist/psychiatrist. Read the information - it claims to be 100% accurate in tests and real life studies; producing no false/positives and no false negatives. It does however, rely on the accuracy of the individuals memory and only works where there is information that only the killer could know, it also depends on the accuracy of the information held by the authorities etc. If the police believe that a certain thing happened during the crime, but it didn't then clearly, this test would provide  a negative result but that doesn't mean the person is innocent (or guilty). It doesn't measure lies or truth, guilt of innocence - just memory.

Dr Lawrence Farwell and his team even offered $100,000.00 to anyone who thought they could beat the test and taught them countermeasures that had previously been effective in non-brain fingerprinting tests. No one has been successful yet.

It's interesting and a BIG step forward from the polygraph IMO.

Yes I read that too Caroline, I find it fascinating and I think it seems to be a much more accurate test than the polygraph. I suppose they would need to ask jb questions that only the police knew and wasn't in the public domain i.e. How they were killed etc.

Offline notsure

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Re: Brain fingerprinting test
« Reply #7 on: July 13, 2017, 12:11:PM »
I think it's Katherine zellner. Com it's got everything on there

Offline lookout

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Re: Brain fingerprinting test
« Reply #8 on: July 13, 2017, 12:21:PM »
Surely,a " criminal " will only tell/say what he thinks fit ?

Offline notsure

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Re: Brain fingerprinting test
« Reply #9 on: July 13, 2017, 12:28:PM »
Surely,a " criminal " will only tell/say what he thinks fit ?

It's much more complicated than that lookout they look at brain waves etc

Offline lookout

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Re: Brain fingerprinting test
« Reply #10 on: July 13, 2017, 12:36:PM »
It's much more complicated than that lookout they look at brain waves etc





I admit to not viewing the information yet,notsure,so I'll have a read before passing any remarks. I must say though,I think it's a bit late in the day to use JB as a candidate after 32 years,though I'd argue that evidence of him being a killer wouldn't register.

Offline Caroline

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Re: Brain fingerprinting test
« Reply #11 on: July 13, 2017, 08:24:PM »
Yes I read that too Caroline, I find it fascinating and I think it seems to be a much more accurate test than the polygraph. I suppose they would need to ask jb questions that only the police knew and wasn't in the public domain i.e. How they were killed etc.

Yes, I think that's how it works Notsure, if the person reacts to a specific question whist linked up to an EEG machine, and it reaches a certain level or beyond that level, they call it a P300-MERMER potential. They argue that this is a memory produced by the question, a memory the subject could not have had had if he/she not been present during the crime. It's an objective measure as opposed to subjective.
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Offline Jan

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Re: Brain fingerprinting test
« Reply #12 on: July 14, 2017, 12:22:AM »
If Jeremy is innocent he certainly through his research knows a lot more about the crime now  as he has spent much of his time researching it.

So he might not have memories but he would know a lot of what happened so how in theory would that work?

Tha fact that he would not remember himself doing it?

Offline Adam

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Re: Brain fingerprinting test
« Reply #13 on: July 14, 2017, 07:40:AM »
If Jeremy is innocent he certainly through his research knows a lot more about the crime now  as he has spent much of his time researching it.

So he might not have memories but he would know a lot of what happened so how in theory would that work?

Tha fact that he would not remember himself doing it?

Everyone has to accept Bamber is guilty. The evidence has convicted him & several appeals have failed. Most of the evidence Bamber has not disputed.

It would still be a good idea for Bamber to request a fingerprinting test. It could be arranged secretly by his legal team. If the results were good it could be annonced in the media. If not, only his inner circle knows he had it.

I suspect he would pass, as he did the lie detector test. He is ruthless enough to be able to not show emotion when asked questions.

'Only I know what really happened that night'.

Offline Jane J

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Re: Brain fingerprinting test
« Reply #14 on: July 14, 2017, 08:06:AM »
If Jeremy is innocent he certainly through his research knows a lot more about the crime now  as he has spent much of his time researching it.

So he might not have memories but he would know a lot of what happened so how in theory would that work?

Tha fact that he would not remember himself doing it?

As the murderer, he would have knowledge of the crime that no one else has. It's more than possible such memories have become repressed, meaning he'll have no CONSCIOUS memory of what happened, possibly within a certain time frame. It sounds as if it's possible for this test to reveal the presence of such memories.