Author Topic: Sheila's neck wound and the blood on her arm  (Read 76461 times)

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Offline Caroline

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Re: Sheila's neck wound and the blood on her arm
« Reply #1335 on: June 29, 2018, 01:52:PM »





I don't think that " flogging a dead horse " comes into the latest findings. You're describing the snail-like tactics of the CCRC I think and the judicial system in general.

Lookout, I really don't want to be rude or have the usual back and forth over this BUT the suggestion that after being shot in the throat, Sheila decided to take a shower it's just a non-starter. When Venezis said that Sheila might have been able to stand, he didn't mean wander around the house acting as though nothing had happened. Venezis said it was 'possible' not that it was plausible.
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Offline lookout

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Re: Sheila's neck wound and the blood on her arm
« Reply #1336 on: June 29, 2018, 01:54:PM »
Lookout, I really don't want to be rude or have the usual back and forth over this BUT the suggestion that after being shot in the throat, Sheila decided to take a shower it's just a non-starter. When Venezis said that Sheila might have been able to stand, he didn't mean wander around the house acting as though nothing had happened. Venezis said it was 'possible' not that it was plausible.






Stand for enough time to put her nightdress on for instance.

Offline Caroline

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Re: Sheila's neck wound and the blood on her arm
« Reply #1337 on: June 29, 2018, 02:04:PM »





Stand for enough time to put her nightdress on for instance.

How would that stop blood running down her front?
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Offline mike tesko

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Re: Sheila's neck wound and the blood on her arm
« Reply #1338 on: June 29, 2018, 03:24:PM »
Lookout, I really don't want to be rude or have the usual back and forth over this BUT the suggestion that after being shot in the throat, Sheila decided to take a shower it's just a non-starter. When Venezis said that Sheila might have been able to stand, he didn't mean wander around the house acting as though nothing had happened. Venezis said it was 'possible' not that it was plausible.

With respect the defence expert, stated that Sheila might have been able to move around upright for a period up to half an hour after sustaining the first shot! Now, this is extraordinary considering the suggestion that Sheila was shot twice whilst laying down on the bedroom floor to allow somebody to shoot her dead without putting up any struggle whatsoever! The truth, however, was that Sheila was originally involved in a struggle with another person downstairs in the kitchen, which resulted in the bloody marks which are present on her right forearm and the top part of her right hand and her wrist - these marks were caused at some point in between the inflicting of the first non fatal shot, and the second fatal shot!

For my part, I believe that after first being shot downstairs in the kitchen, Sheila's body went into a collapsed state which caused the firearms officers in the kitchen to believe that she was dead. For this reason, I do not think Sheila had been moving around for a continuous period lasting half an hour as the defence expert said. I believe she regained consciousness after about half an hour or so, got to her feet and dragged herself upstairs to her parents bedroom! I should think Sheila could have made the journey from the kitchen downstairs in her wounded state, to the bedroom upstairs where she collapsed on top of the bed, in a couple of minutes, no longer than that. The initial bullet entry wound to her neck would have coagulated sufficiently enough to prevent much of the blood pouring out of the neck wound, albeit a small amount did which left a vertically inclined flow of blood upon her neck. She collapsed back into a state of unconscious once she fell onto the bed...

All of this happened before Stan Jones and Mick Clark visited the main bedroom scene at which time the bodies of June Bamber and Sheila Caffell' were laid side by side on top of the bed in the main bedroomed with a rifle laid on the bed in-between both bodies and Sheila had a Bible on top of her chest!

At least that what Stan Jones and Mick Clark told Ann Eaton and the other relatives that morning who were all gathered at Jeremy's cottage (9 Head Street, Goldhanger, Tolleshunt D'Arcy, Essex), Sheila had been shot once by that stage!

Now, I cannot say that June Bambers body was laid on the bed next to Sheila's body, but what I do say is that at some time prior Sheila receiving the second fatal shot under the chin, that her was photographed laid on top of the bed, slightly toward the left hand side of the bed (as viewed from the foot of the bed), with her head resting on the left hand pillow, with the parents teddy bear sat perched on Sheila's left (the right hand side of her body when viewed from the foot of the bed)! She was wearing a light blue nightdress which had its hem pulled up to the top of her thighs exposing her genitilia. There was no rifle with her body, or on the bed! There wasn't a Bible on her chest in this particular photograph. She only had one bullet wound to her neck, which had a very fient vertical flow of dried blood which ran down toward the collar of the nightdress she was wearing! There was 'no bloodied finger marks' present on the front lower part of her nightdress at that stage! Furthermore, there was no triangular shaped bloodstains in the region of her right shoulder / armpit on her nightdress at this time...

This photograph was clearly taken prior to Sheila Caffell's body being moved off the bed, onto the bedroom floor where she eventually received the second shot that killed her got inflicted!

By the time DI Ron Cook arrived at the scene (9.20am), and visited the main bedroom, Sheila's body was already laid out in the bedroom floor, in possession of the rifle, and she had already been shot on the second occasion!

Stan Jones and Mick Clark visited the main bedroom after 9.05am, and only remained present inside the main bedroom for a few minutes - by 9.10am, they were leaving the main bedroom to go with Jeremy to his cottage to take a witness statement from him...

Sheila received the second shot which killed her, somewhere in-between Jones and Clark seeing Sheila and Junes bodies laid out on top of the bed, with a rifle in-between their bodies and a Bible resting on top of Sheila's chest, and Ron Cook entering the main bedroom after 9.20am and finding June Bambers body on the bedroom floor on one side of the bed, and Sheila Caffell's body in the floor on the other side of the bed!

Sheila Caffell was killed after her body was lifted from the bed and placed on the bedroom floor and the rifle was brought to her body by police! This happened after Jones and Clark left the main bedroom scene and prior to Ron Cooks arrival there!

Either, Sheila shot and killed herself by way of that second shot, or the police are responsible for her death!

Her death had nothing whatsoever to do with Jeremy Bamber, Mathew mcDonald, any hitman, the police know the exact circumstances surrounding Sheila's death, they chose to call her death a suicide rather than take the criticism which would have come their way because of the fact that they conducted 'informatives' using a loaded rifle, the police are responsible for her death, nobody else! The only saving grace about her death was that she wouldn't have known anything at the time she was shot on the second occasion!

I am 100% certain, that DC Henderson (DHQ SOCO) and DC Oakey (DHQ SOCO) took the crucial crime scene photographs of Sheila's body on the bed at a time when she had only been shot just the once! They also took a video of the actual crime scene with the bodies in the original positions from around 8.45am, onward (after Sheila's body had gone AWOL from the kitchen)..

All the other police at the scene have gone out of their way to hide the involvement of Henderson and Oakey at the scene at around the time senior officers performed 'informatives', where bodies and items of evidential value were moved and restated prior to the second team of SOCO were allowed to enter the farmhouse and record the re-stage crime scene and present 'that' as though it was how everything had been originally found when the firearm officers first entered the farmhouse!
"Oh, what a tangled web we weave, when we first practice to deceive"...

Offline Harry

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Re: Sheila's neck wound and the blood on her arm
« Reply #1339 on: July 01, 2018, 05:02:AM »
With respect the defence expert, stated that Sheila might have been able to move around upright for a period up to half an hour after sustaining the first shot! Now, this is extraordinary considering the suggestion that Sheila was shot twice whilst laying down on the bedroom floor to allow somebody to shoot her dead without putting up any struggle whatsoever! The truth, however, was that Sheila was originally involved in a struggle with another person downstairs in the kitchen, which resulted in the bloody marks which are present on her right forearm and the top part of her right hand and her wrist - these marks were caused at some point in between the inflicting of the first non fatal shot, and the second fatal shot!

For my part, I believe that after first being shot downstairs in the kitchen, Sheila's body went into a collapsed state which caused the firearms officers in the kitchen to believe that she was dead. For this reason, I do not think Sheila had been moving around for a continuous period lasting half an hour as the defence expert said. I believe she regained consciousness after about half an hour or so, got to her feet and dragged herself upstairs to her parents bedroom! I should think Sheila could have made the journey from the kitchen downstairs in her wounded state, to the bedroom upstairs where she collapsed on top of the bed, in a couple of minutes, no longer than that. The initial bullet entry wound to her neck would have coagulated sufficiently enough to prevent much of the blood pouring out of the neck wound, albeit a small amount did which left a vertically inclined flow of blood upon her neck. She collapsed back into a state of unconscious once she fell onto the bed...

All of this happened before Stan Jones and Mick Clark visited the main bedroom scene at which time the bodies of June Bamber and Sheila Caffell' were laid side by side on top of the bed in the main bedroomed with a rifle laid on the bed in-between both bodies and Sheila had a Bible on top of her chest!

At least that what Stan Jones and Mick Clark told Ann Eaton and the other relatives that morning who were all gathered at Jeremy's cottage (9 Head Street, Goldhanger, Tolleshunt D'Arcy, Essex), Sheila had been shot once by that stage!

Now, I cannot say that June Bambers body was laid on the bed next to Sheila's body, but what I do say is that at some time prior Sheila receiving the second fatal shot under the chin, that her was photographed laid on top of the bed, slightly toward the left hand side of the bed (as viewed from the foot of the bed), with her head resting on the left hand pillow, with the parents teddy bear sat perched on Sheila's left (the right hand side of her body when viewed from the foot of the bed)! She was wearing a light blue nightdress which had its hem pulled up to the top of her thighs exposing her genitilia. There was no rifle with her body, or on the bed! There wasn't a Bible on her chest in this particular photograph. She only had one bullet wound to her neck, which had a very fient vertical flow of dried blood which ran down toward the collar of the nightdress she was wearing! There was 'no bloodied finger marks' present on the front lower part of her nightdress at that stage! Furthermore, there was no triangular shaped bloodstains in the region of her right shoulder / armpit on her nightdress at this time...

This photograph was clearly taken prior to Sheila Caffell's body being moved off the bed, onto the bedroom floor where she eventually received the second shot that killed her got inflicted!

By the time DI Ron Cook arrived at the scene (9.20am), and visited the main bedroom, Sheila's body was already laid out in the bedroom floor, in possession of the rifle, and she had already been shot on the second occasion!

Stan Jones and Mick Clark visited the main bedroom after 9.05am, and only remained present inside the main bedroom for a few minutes - by 9.10am, they were leaving the main bedroom to go with Jeremy to his cottage to take a witness statement from him...

Sheila received the second shot which killed her, somewhere in-between Jones and Clark seeing Sheila and Junes bodies laid out on top of the bed, with a rifle in-between their bodies and a Bible resting on top of Sheila's chest, and Ron Cook entering the main bedroom after 9.20am and finding June Bambers body on the bedroom floor on one side of the bed, and Sheila Caffell's body in the floor on the other side of the bed!

Sheila Caffell was killed after her body was lifted from the bed and placed on the bedroom floor and the rifle was brought to her body by police! This happened after Jones and Clark left the main bedroom scene and prior to Ron Cooks arrival there!

Either, Sheila shot and killed herself by way of that second shot, or the police are responsible for her death!

Her death had nothing whatsoever to do with Jeremy Bamber, Mathew mcDonald, any hitman, the police know the exact circumstances surrounding Sheila's death, they chose to call her death a suicide rather than take the criticism which would have come their way because of the fact that they conducted 'informatives' using a loaded rifle, the police are responsible for her death, nobody else! The only saving grace about her death was that she wouldn't have known anything at the time she was shot on the second occasion!

I am 100% certain, that DC Henderson (DHQ SOCO) and DC Oakey (DHQ SOCO) took the crucial crime scene photographs of Sheila's body on the bed at a time when she had only been shot just the once! They also took a video of the actual crime scene with the bodies in the original positions from around 8.45am, onward (after Sheila's body had gone AWOL from the kitchen)..

All the other police at the scene have gone out of their way to hide the involvement of Henderson and Oakey at the scene at around the time senior officers performed 'informatives', where bodies and items of evidential value were moved and restated prior to the second team of SOCO were allowed to enter the farmhouse and record the re-stage crime scene and present 'that' as though it was how everything had been originally found when the firearm officers first entered the farmhouse!

I agree that Sheila was definitely shot a second time after Dr Craig pronounced her dead. Craig said he saw only one bullet wound at that stage and he said that the blood was dry. In the photographs we see two wounds and two blood trails still wet.

It's really not credible that Craig would have only seen one wound when there were two, because after the second shot there were two new wet blood trails, the lower one being a mirror stain from the upper which at first looks like a trail from the lower wound. The point is that if Craig had seen the two trails he would be sure to have seen the two wounds, because the trails lead the eye to the wounds, notwithstanding that the lower one is a mirror stain.

"Either, Sheila shot and killed herself by way of that second shot, or the police are responsible for her death!"


I believe in considering all possibilities, so unless there is some evidence which definitely rules it out, we should consider the possibility that Sheila shot herself a second time after Craig's examination. Suppose after being in a near death state, she regained consciousness a second time and found herself alone in the room with the Anschütz rifle still there. Realising the hopelessness of her situation, she gets off the bed and sits on the floor and shoots herself. The cops hear the shot and immediately rush in.

They find her with her head propped against the bedside cabinet and pull her along away from the cabinet and turn her head to the right. They do this before the blood started to spill from the sides of her mouth. The mirror stain was caused by her chin being forced down by the way her head was propped. If her head had been propped in such a way, she must have been moved before the blood started to flow from her mouth, otherwise the trails would have ran down the front and not to either side of her mouth.

DS Jones and DC Clarke saw the body before this incident which occurred shortly after they left. They described the scene to Ann Eaton at Goldhanger.

Regardless of whether the police shot Sheila accidentally or she shot herself, the description given to Ann Eaton was in all likelihood totally accurate, because Jones and Clarke were there and told Mrs Eaton what they saw. The usual crap which is talked about "mistakes" in communication with old crackling radios can't be used in this instance.

What probably happened before this second incident is that that Sheila had shot herself downstairs with Anthony Pargeter's bolt action rifle and was thought to be dead when the police broke in. She revived and went upstairs before the police did and entered the master bedroom. She took hold of the bible and lay down on the bed and held it open at a certain page with her her right palm.

If she had got upstairs before the police, they would not have followed her immediately, because they knew there was a rifle up there which had been seen leaning at the boxroom window by the police outside. When they did eventually reach the master bedroom what they saw was Sheila lying on the bed apparently dead with a bible on her chest. 

This is at any rate a theory based upon the evidence instead of repeatedly ignoring it like some halfwit afraid of the truth.

What Dr Craig said about there being only one bullet wound when he saw Sheila's body was true. What Stan Jones told Ann Eaton about Sheila being on the bed was true.
« Last Edit: July 01, 2018, 05:08:AM by Harry »

Offline Harry

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Re: Sheila's neck wound and the blood on her arm
« Reply #1340 on: July 01, 2018, 05:37:AM »

Some people have asked the question, why would the police want to get Sheila's body off the bed and stage manage it on the floor to make it look like she shot herself in that position. The most likely explanation is that they wanted to cover up the truth about Sheila taking a walk after shooting herself downstairs.

If Sheila was photographed on the bed, it would be apparent to an expert that she could not have shot herself in that position, so the cops would have to come clean about what happened downstairs.

They may have staged her suicide on the floor to more or less replicate the position they found her in downstairs. Carrying her body back downstairs was out of the question, so they just did the next best thing, intending to say that reports of her body being found downstairs were mistaken. But the gun went off.

If the above happened both the cops and Dr Craig would have a powerful motive for withholding the real truth. Indeed, either scenario gives them all a powerful motive to suppress the truth. 

Sheila either shot herself a second time or the police shot her while stage managing her body. If one of these can be eliminated then the other must be the truth.

"When you have eliminated the impossible, the remaining, however improbable, must be the truth."



Offline lookout

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Re: Sheila's neck wound and the blood on her arm
« Reply #1341 on: July 01, 2018, 08:42:AM »
Good posts Harry. Whatever may have happened I'm steadfast in my mind that Jeremy hadn't been responsible. The longer these files/documents remain withheld by EP the more they have to hide.

Offline Adam

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Re: Sheila's neck wound and the blood on her arm
« Reply #1342 on: July 01, 2018, 09:21:AM »
I agree that Sheila was definitely shot a second time after Dr Craig pronounced her dead. Craig said he saw only one bullet wound at that stage and he said that the blood was dry. In the photographs we see two wounds and two blood trails still wet.

It's really not credible that Craig would have only seen one wound when there were two, because after the second shot there were two new wet blood trails, the lower one being a mirror stain from the upper which at first looks like a trail from the lower wound. The point is that if Craig had seen the two trails he would be sure to have seen the two wounds, because the trails lead the eye to the wounds, notwithstanding that the lower one is a mirror stain.

"Either, Sheila shot and killed herself by way of that second shot, or the police are responsible for her death!"


I believe in considering all possibilities, so unless there is some evidence which definitely rules it out, we should consider the possibility that Sheila shot herself a second time after Craig's examination. Suppose after being in a near death state, she regained consciousness a second time and found herself alone in the room with the Anschütz rifle still there. Realising the hopelessness of her situation, she gets off the bed and sits on the floor and shoots herself. The cops hear the shot and immediately rush in.

They find her with her head propped against the bedside cabinet and pull her along away from the cabinet and turn her head to the right. They do this before the blood started to spill from the sides of her mouth. The mirror stain was caused by her chin being forced down by the way her head was propped. If her head had been propped in such a way, she must have been moved before the blood started to flow from her mouth, otherwise the trails would have ran down the front and not to either side of her mouth.

DS Jones and DC Clarke saw the body before this incident which occurred shortly after they left. They described the scene to Ann Eaton at Goldhanger.

Regardless of whether the police shot Sheila accidentally or she shot herself, the description given to Ann Eaton was in all likelihood totally accurate, because Jones and Clarke were there and told Mrs Eaton what they saw. The usual crap which is talked about "mistakes" in communication with old crackling radios can't be used in this instance.

What probably happened before this second incident is that that Sheila had shot herself downstairs with Anthony Pargeter's bolt action rifle and was thought to be dead when the police broke in. She revived and went upstairs before the police did and entered the master bedroom. She took hold of the bible and lay down on the bed and held it open at a certain page with her her right palm.

If she had got upstairs before the police, they would not have followed her immediately, because they knew there was a rifle up there which had been seen leaning at the boxroom window by the police outside. When they did eventually reach the master bedroom what they saw was Sheila lying on the bed apparently dead with a bible on her chest. 

This is at any rate a theory based upon the evidence instead of repeatedly ignoring it like some halfwit afraid of the truth.

What Dr Craig said about there being only one bullet wound when he saw Sheila's body was true. What Stan Jones told Ann Eaton about Sheila being on the bed was true.

Sheila shot herself or was shot after Dr Craig pronounced her dead ? You never know.

Not sure why Dr Craig would say he saw dry blood on Sheila, if it was wet.
'Only I know what really happened that night'.

Offline Adam

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Re: Sheila's neck wound and the blood on her arm
« Reply #1343 on: July 01, 2018, 09:26:AM »
Some people have asked the question, why would the police want to get Sheila's body off the bed and stage manage it on the floor to make it look like she shot herself in that position. The most likely explanation is that they wanted to cover up the truth about Sheila taking a walk after shooting herself downstairs.

If Sheila was photographed on the bed, it would be apparent to an expert that she could not have shot herself in that position, so the cops would have to come clean about what happened downstairs.

They may have staged her suicide on the floor to more or less replicate the position they found her in downstairs. Carrying her body back downstairs was out of the question, so they just did the next best thing, intending to say that reports of her body being found downstairs were mistaken. But the gun went off.

If the above happened both the cops and Dr Craig would have a powerful motive for withholding the real truth. Indeed, either scenario gives them all a powerful motive to suppress the truth. 

Sheila either shot herself a second time or the police shot her while stage managing her body. If one of these can be eliminated then the other must be the truth.

"When you have eliminated the impossible, the remaining, however improbable, must be the truth."

Why would the police want to cover up that Sheila had walked upstairs ?

Why would it be apparent that Sheila could not have shot herself on a bed ? How would it become more apparent by moving Sheila onto the floor ?
« Last Edit: July 01, 2018, 09:35:AM by Adam »
'Only I know what really happened that night'.

Offline lookout

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Re: Sheila's neck wound and the blood on her arm
« Reply #1344 on: July 01, 2018, 09:35:AM »
Craig would only have seen dried blood if there had been only one shot when he "examined" Sheila. I use the word examined lightly because he only made a cursory glance at her and not a physical examination,i.e. pale, temperature,pulse, pupils of the eyes and heart to verify that a person is deceased.
All would or should have been noted there and then in order to certify death.

Offline Caroline

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Re: Sheila's neck wound and the blood on her arm
« Reply #1345 on: July 01, 2018, 12:34:PM »
Craig would only have seen dried blood if there had been only one shot when he "examined" Sheila. I use the word examined lightly because he only made a cursory glance at her and not a physical examination,i.e. pale, temperature,pulse, pupils of the eyes and heart to verify that a person is deceased.
All would or should have been noted there and then in order to certify death.

How many more times Lookout? He was only there to OFFICIALLY pronouce death! Not to do a full examination! And he saw dried blood because she had been dead for some time.
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Offline lookout

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Re: Sheila's neck wound and the blood on her arm
« Reply #1346 on: July 01, 2018, 12:41:PM »
How many more times Lookout? He was only there to OFFICIALLY pronouce death! Not to do a full examination! And he saw dried blood because she had been dead for some time.






Dried blood from the lesser of the two wounds,yes------because that's all he saw,one wound which wouldn't have pumped out blood because the bullet hit soft flesh and the jawbone. If he'd seen the second wound he'd have described arterial blood flowing----------but he didn't did he ? That's if he was doing his job properly ??!!

Offline lookout

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Re: Sheila's neck wound and the blood on her arm
« Reply #1347 on: July 01, 2018, 12:44:PM »
The second shot when it came would naturally have disturbed the area of the first shot thus disturbing the plug of blood which would have been present after the first shot making the two shots visible.
How come it was the lower shot he'd described yet the one above it would have been the easiest to have seen ?

Offline lookout

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Re: Sheila's neck wound and the blood on her arm
« Reply #1348 on: July 01, 2018, 12:48:PM »
Two shots would have been highly visible if he'd used his eyes ?? At the point when Craig saw her her head would naturally have fallen backwards after the second shot with the force of the shooting and its close proximity.

Offline lookout

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Re: Sheila's neck wound and the blood on her arm
« Reply #1349 on: July 01, 2018, 01:33:PM »
Thus making the one shot suicide/attempted suicide.