Author Topic: DCI 621 Stuart Smith Specsavers Challenge  (Read 1235 times)

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Offline Roch

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Re: DCI 621 Stuart Smith Specsavers Challenge
« Reply #30 on: July 04, 2017, 04:20:PM »
People have argued that they don't believe EP would have misread the crime scene as a suicide if it was staged. But this thread suggests that they released CS pictures that show gouges when they official line is that her hands had no injuries. Are EP clever on the one hand but dumb on the other?

Yes I agree they wouldn't misread the crime scene if it was staged.  If they came across a staged crime scene - in the manner that this one was - then I believe they would have cottoned on to it.  It's therefore paradoxical that they themselves ended up staging the crime scene in a not totally convincing manner.

Regarding release of crime photos etc.  I think we would need to know which photos were released when and what the quality of those photos were.   
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Offline Bill Robertson

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Re: DCI 621 Stuart Smith Specsavers Challenge
« Reply #31 on: July 04, 2017, 04:23:PM »
People have argued that they don't believe EP would have misread the crime scene as a suicide if it was staged. But this thread suggests that they released CS pictures that show gouges when they official line is that her hands had no injuries. Are EP clever on the one hand but dumb on the other?
It is not as simple as that, it hardly ever is. The trial lawyers and the jury were shown photographs that were in effect 'whole body' i.e. no close-up details. It is apparent from the numerous questions asked by the Judge, Prosecution and Defence lawyers, that they struggled to see any detail of the wounds. In my view, that is what Ainsley intended, so that Vanezis' testimony would be accepted without question.

The photographs were then never intended to be seen again, except by a very small number of people who were concerned with Jeremy's appeals. The general public were never meant to see any crime scene photos. Then, out of the blue, along came the internet and websites like the JB Forum where crime scene photos have been posted. With the right software and a lot of time and experimentation it has been possible to produce enlarged images that the police would never have dreamed were possible in 1985. So, the police were not dumb, they just didn't anticipate the development of the internet, or digital image processing.
« Last Edit: July 04, 2017, 04:24:PM by Bill Robertson »

Offline Adam

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Re: DCI 621 Stuart Smith Specsavers Challenge
« Reply #32 on: July 04, 2017, 04:24:PM »
Yes I agree they wouldn't misread the crime scene if it was staged.  If they came across a staged crime scene - in the manner that this one was - then I believe they would have cottoned on to it.  It's therefore paradoxical that they themselves ended up staging the crime scene in a not totally convincing manner.

Regarding release of crime photos etc.  I think we would need to know which photos were released when and what the quality of those photos were.

They did 'cotton on to it'.  Bamber was charged in September 1985.
'Only I know what really happened that night'.

Offline Adam

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Re: DCI 621 Stuart Smith Specsavers Challenge
« Reply #33 on: July 04, 2017, 04:37:PM »
It is not as simple as that, it hardly ever is. The trial lawyers and the jury were shown photographs that were in effect 'whole body' i.e. no close-up details. It is apparent from the numerous questions asked by the Judge, Prosecution and Defence lawyers, that they struggled to see any detail of the wounds. In my view, that is what Ainsley intended, so that Vanezis' testimony would be accepted without question.

The photographs were then never intended to be seen again, except by a very small number of people who were concerned with Jeremy's appeals. The general public were never meant to see any crime scene photos. Then, out of the blue, along came the internet and websites like the JB Forum where crime scene photos have been posted. With the right software and a lot of time and experimentation it has been possible to produce enlarged images that the police would never have dreamed were possible in 1985. So, the police were not dumb, they just didn't anticipate the development of the internet, or digital image processing.

You're thread picture doesn't show any injuries. It just shows blood on her hand. Which is visible in the long distance pictures.
'Only I know what really happened that night'.

Offline Roch

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Re: DCI 621 Stuart Smith Specsavers Challenge
« Reply #34 on: July 04, 2017, 04:50:PM »
You're thread picture doesn't show any injuries. It just shows blood on her hand. Which is visible in the long distance pictures.

That being the case - why do the two almost parallel strips of bloodstains stop - right at the point where they they reach the clearer darker lines? 

What stopped the bloodstaining from going beyond the darker clear lines? 

Why do the two streaks of bloodstaining occur beneath the darker lines and not above them? 
"She was on a mission - a date with death, in league with the devil..." 

(Mike Tesko 2012)

Offline maggie

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Re: DCI 621 Stuart Smith Specsavers Challenge
« Reply #35 on: July 04, 2017, 04:58:PM »
You're thread picture doesn't show any injuries. It just shows blood on her hand. Which is visible in the long distance pictures.
I can't see anything on my laptop but I have a kindle tablet which isn't the greatest  it the photos are really clear, I can see scrapes and bruising and nail wounds on her arm. Thing is I have never bothered to look at the photos on the tablet.

Offline Adam

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Re: DCI 621 Stuart Smith Specsavers Challenge
« Reply #36 on: July 04, 2017, 04:58:PM »
That being the case - why do the two almost parallel strips of bloodstains stop - right at the point where they they reach the clearer darker lines? 

What stopped the bloodstaining from going beyond the darker clear lines? 

Why do the two streaks of bloodstaining occur beneath the darker lines and not above them?

I have no idea what you are talking about.

There are a few blood marks on Sheila's hands. Which have always been visible.
'Only I know what really happened that night'.

Offline Roch

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Re: DCI 621 Stuart Smith Specsavers Challenge
« Reply #37 on: July 04, 2017, 05:01:PM »
I have no idea what you are talking about.

There are a few blood marks on Sheila's hands. Which have always been visible.

Then compare my question with the images.  Surely that's not a difficult task? 
"She was on a mission - a date with death, in league with the devil..." 

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Offline Roch

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Re: DCI 621 Stuart Smith Specsavers Challenge
« Reply #38 on: July 04, 2017, 05:02:PM »
I can't see anything on my laptop but I have a kindle tablet which isn't the greatest  it the photos are really clear, I can see scrapes and bruising and nail wounds on her arm. Thing is I have never bothered to look at the photos on the tablet.

Do you mean hand Maggie - as opposed to arm?
"She was on a mission - a date with death, in league with the devil..." 

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Offline Adam

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Re: DCI 621 Stuart Smith Specsavers Challenge
« Reply #39 on: July 04, 2017, 05:07:PM »
Then compare my question with the images.  Surely that's not a difficult task?

I still don't understand. There are blood marks on Sheila's hands. Which isn't surprising as she was shot twice in the throat & there was also her own blood on her nightdress & bible.
« Last Edit: July 04, 2017, 05:07:PM by Adam »
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Offline maggie

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Re: DCI 621 Stuart Smith Specsavers Challenge
« Reply #40 on: July 04, 2017, 05:10:PM »
Do you mean hand Maggie - as opposed to arm?

Oh yes, sorry Roch I was on my phone in the sun, now on my tablet but it has a life of its own and decides what I should be writing!
Keeps calling you Rich as well.

Offline Adam

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Re: DCI 621 Stuart Smith Specsavers Challenge
« Reply #41 on: July 04, 2017, 05:10:PM »
Supporters need to focus on the huge frame.

A picture of Sheila's hand with blood on will not negate all the incriminating evidence. The picture is inconclusive anyway.
« Last Edit: July 04, 2017, 05:11:PM by Adam »
'Only I know what really happened that night'.

Offline Roch

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Re: DCI 621 Stuart Smith Specsavers Challenge
« Reply #42 on: July 04, 2017, 05:11:PM »
I still don't understand. There are blood marks on Sheila's hands. Which isn't surprising as she was shot twice in the throat & there was also her own blood on her nightdress & bible.

OK, so getting back to my question -
Quote
why do the two almost parallel strips of bloodstains stop - right at the point where they they reach the clearer darker lines? 

What stopped the bloodstaining from going beyond the darker clear lines? 

Why do the two streaks of bloodstaining occur beneath the darker lines and not above them?

How do two gunshot wounds in the neck create such bloodstains?  ::)
"She was on a mission - a date with death, in league with the devil..." 

(Mike Tesko 2012)

Offline Roch

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Re: DCI 621 Stuart Smith Specsavers Challenge
« Reply #43 on: July 04, 2017, 05:12:PM »
Oh yes, sorry Roch I was on my phone in the sun, now on my tablet but it has a life of its own and decides what I should be writing!
Keeps calling you Rich as well.

Dont mind Rich but not keen on being called Dick  :))
"She was on a mission - a date with death, in league with the devil..." 

(Mike Tesko 2012)

Offline Adam

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Re: DCI 621 Stuart Smith Specsavers Challenge
« Reply #44 on: July 04, 2017, 05:18:PM »
OK, so getting back to my question -
How do two gunshot wounds in the neck create such bloodstains?  ::)

How do I know ? Best ask a pathologist.

How did Sheila have no gun shot residue on her hands or nightdress ? Best ask a magician.
'Only I know what really happened that night'.