Author Topic: Reconstruction of the Kitchen  (Read 1334 times)

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Offline lookout

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Re: Reconstruction of the Kitchen
« Reply #15 on: June 16, 2017, 09:41:PM »
Wouldn't Sheila have fought to save the lives of her children ? Because I'm pretty sure she'd have been like a tiger would be with her cubs,especially with those nails that she had as it wouldn't be the first time a woman had used her fingernails to ward off an assailant---------but JB had no such marks on him ?

Offline David1819

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Re: Reconstruction of the Kitchen
« Reply #16 on: June 17, 2017, 03:32:AM »
I must admit, I'm not really sure where this is going. There was a fight in the kitchen, even if it was only one sided.
Nevill received a number of wounds not associated with the inflicted gunshot wounds.

It seems clear, that Nevill was struck a number of times by the killer, either bludgeoned with the rifle or some other linear item used as a weapon.

Do you disagree David?

Sorry for the late reply. Only just read this.

No I do not disagree. Nevil was hit with an object. This is almost certainly the rifle due to the broken stock. However It was a beating of a victim semi conscious or near death rather than a fight.

Its often claimed there none of the victims blood on Sheila. But this is a blatant misrepresentation. The fact of the matter is KM testing confirmed small stains of blood here and there however serologic tests to determine blood group could not draw any results from such a small stains. Had the nightdress not been destroyed by EP we would not be having the discussion. The nightie could have proved Sheila was the killer. Hence it was in the police interest to destroy it.


Almost-parallel situations of police destroying such evidence exist. Such as the in the case of Kevin Cooper.

5441C OOPER v. BROWN
On June 9, Roper examined the coveralls that Furrow had left at her house on the night of the murders. She called her father, who then called the SBCSD. ER 1591, 4895. According to SBCSD Deputy Eckley, who was dispatched to Roper’s house, the coveralls were “heavily splattered” with blood. ER 1578. Deputy Eckley took the coveralls into evidence and gave a report to his supervisor. ER 1582. Deputy Eckley’s report, dated June 10, 1983, stated that Roper “suspects that

the bloody coveralls are from the Chino murders and has further information regarding that incident and/or possible suspect/s.” ER 3105. As will be recounted in more detail below, Deputy Eckley discarded the coveralls in a dumpster during Cooper’s preliminary hearing in his capital case. Deputy Eckley claimed at trial that he acted alone in destruction of the bloody coveralls. However, the initials “KS” on the Disposition Report for the coveralls indicate that Senior SBCSD Deputy Ken Schneckengast approved the destruction.
« Last Edit: June 17, 2017, 03:36:AM by David1819 »
"Truth is incontrovertible. Malice may attack it, ignorance may deride it, but in the end, there it is."

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Offline Hartley.

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Re: Reconstruction of the Kitchen
« Reply #17 on: June 17, 2017, 09:32:AM »
Sorry for the late reply. Only just read this.

No I do not disagree. Nevil was hit with an object. This is almost certainly the rifle due to the broken stock. However It was a beating of a victim semi conscious or near death rather than a fight.

Its often claimed there none of the victims blood on Sheila. But this is a blatant misrepresentation. The fact of the matter is KM testing confirmed small stains of blood here and there however serologic tests to determine blood group could not draw any results from such a small stains. Had the nightdress not been destroyed by EP we would not be having the discussion. The nightie could have proved Sheila was the killer. Hence it was in the police interest to destroy it.


Almost-parallel situations of police destroying such evidence exist. Such as the in the case of Kevin Cooper.

5441C OOPER v. BROWN
On June 9, Roper examined the coveralls that Furrow had left at her house on the night of the murders. She called her father, who then called the SBCSD. ER 1591, 4895. According to SBCSD Deputy Eckley, who was dispatched to Roper’s house, the coveralls were “heavily splattered” with blood. ER 1578. Deputy Eckley took the coveralls into evidence and gave a report to his supervisor. ER 1582. Deputy Eckley’s report, dated June 10, 1983, stated that Roper “suspects that

the bloody coveralls are from the Chino murders and has further information regarding that incident and/or possible suspect/s.” ER 3105. As will be recounted in more detail below, Deputy Eckley discarded the coveralls in a dumpster during Cooper’s preliminary hearing in his capital case. Deputy Eckley claimed at trial that he acted alone in destruction of the bloody coveralls. However, the initials “KS” on the Disposition Report for the coveralls indicate that Senior SBCSD Deputy Ken Schneckengast approved the destruction.


I'm not sure that's the case. I think you've formed an argument against something which isn't being claimed.

Neville was wounded in the bedroom and fled downstairs, the killer was out of bullets and beat him with a linear object (almost certainly the rifle).

It's often suggested that if it was Sheila then she wouldn't have been strong enough to overcome Neville. The reality is that Neville was severely wounded and couldn't put up much of a fight.
« Last Edit: June 17, 2017, 09:35:AM by Hartley. »

Offline Adam

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Re: Reconstruction of the Kitchen
« Reply #18 on: June 17, 2017, 12:36:PM »
It seems that David's work is finished with Nevill's bedroom shots.

Nevill was on the stairs. Sheila was several yards away (not inches) by the bedroom door. Incredibly hitting Nevill with each shot. Twice in the face. 

The bullet casings all magically ejected sideways & bounced off the bedroom wall.

The sources for this are David's own diagrams so this must have happened.

Onto the kitchen.
« Last Edit: June 17, 2017, 01:11:PM by Adam »
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Offline Adam

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Re: Reconstruction of the Kitchen
« Reply #19 on: June 17, 2017, 12:43:PM »
The scratch marks, Nevill's watch, upturned chairs, smashed light & sugar bowl are all in different locations in the kitchen.

This would not be the case if Nevill had just slumped straight down in one location as soon as he arrived in the kitchen, as has been suggested.

The fight was ferocious between two men.  Which is what you expect if they are fighting for their lives.

Nevill had made it across the bedroom & down the stairs to the kitchen in a big house.  Adrenalin & his strenght will keep him going indefinately dependent on the effectivness of Bamber's kitchen attack. 
« Last Edit: June 17, 2017, 05:46:PM by Adam »
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Offline Adam

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Re: Reconstruction of the Kitchen
« Reply #20 on: June 18, 2017, 08:33:AM »
The scratch marks & smashed ceiling light would have occurred while Bamber & Nevill were both trying to get control of the rifle. There is no reason why these would occur if Bamber had control of the rifle.

The upturned chairs & spilled sugar bowl may well have also occurred during the fight to control the rifle. Although these could have also occurred after Bamber had gained control of the rifle & started hitting Nevill in the face and body with it. Nevill's injuries show Bamber spent a long time hitting him.

The watch could have fallen off Nevill at any time.
« Last Edit: June 18, 2017, 08:37:AM by Adam »
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Offline Adam

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Re: Reconstruction of the Kitchen
« Reply #21 on: June 18, 2017, 09:59:AM »
The smashed ceiling lampshade supports the aga scratch marks being made on the night.

If Nevill and Bamber had not wrestled over the rifle, there would not have been a smashed ceiling lampshade. Ditto the scratch marks.
« Last Edit: June 18, 2017, 10:22:AM by Adam »
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Offline Adam

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Re: Reconstruction of the Kitchen
« Reply #22 on: July 15, 2017, 02:53:PM »
I am in the process of creating a 3D reconstruction of the Kitchen. Its almost done.

Who thinks I should try and recreate what happened?

Any ideas or suggestions are welcome.  :))

Hopefully David's 3D diagramed reconstruction of the kitchen fight will be done soon. It was 'almost done' 30 days ago.

David's bedroom diagrams came up with new things that haven't been submitted as evidence. Such as Nevill was shot from feet (not inches) away, & was on the stairs (not by the bed) when accurrately shot by Sheila. 

The most interesting discovery was the rifle cartridges were magical. Ejecting to the right & bouncing off walls. This was also not mentioned in evidence, but David's own diagram showed it happening. So it must be correct.

Nevill's multiple injuries were horrific while Sheila & her nightdress remained untouched. There were scratch marks, upturned furniture, smashed ceiling lights & spilled sugar bowls. Nevill eventually ending up on top of a coal scuttle.

Hopefully the 3D diagrams will explain how all this happened.
« Last Edit: July 15, 2017, 03:14:PM by Adam »
'Only I know what really happened that night'.

Offline lookout

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Re: Reconstruction of the Kitchen
« Reply #23 on: July 15, 2017, 03:02:PM »
If Sheila had fought only wearing her underwear,then her nightdress wouldn't have shown any such damage would it ? We obviously don't know of any markings that were on her body either.

Offline Adam

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Re: Reconstruction of the Kitchen
« Reply #24 on: July 15, 2017, 03:56:PM »
If Sheila had fought only wearing her underwear,then her nightdress wouldn't have shown any such damage would it ? We obviously don't know of any markings that were on her body either.

The pathologist said there were no injuries on her body.

I appreciate you have to say Sheila fought in her underwear. As her nightie didn't have a mark on it.

I don't believe Sheila was wearing any underwear under her nightie. Do you believe Sheila took off her underwear & then put her nightie on after killing everyone ? Why did she do this ?

Anyway, everything should become clearer when David produces his 3D diagrams.
« Last Edit: July 15, 2017, 04:00:PM by Adam »
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Offline lookout

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Re: Reconstruction of the Kitchen
« Reply #25 on: July 15, 2017, 04:15:PM »
The pathologist also said that her hands were clean too !!

Offline Jan

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Re: Reconstruction of the Kitchen
« Reply #26 on: July 15, 2017, 04:37:PM »
I must admit, I'm not really sure where this is going. There was a fight in the kitchen, even if it was only one sided.
Nevill received a number of wounds not associated with the inflicted gunshot wounds.

It seems clear, that Nevill was struck a number of times by the killer, either bludgeoned with the rifle or some other linear item used as a weapon.

Do you disagree David?


Not such a big fight as the breakfast bowls were still all laid out on the table? Not disturbed?

Offline Jan

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Re: Reconstruction of the Kitchen
« Reply #27 on: July 15, 2017, 04:38:PM »
I think there was some form of limited scuffle which surprised Jeremy as he had labelled them all callously in his mind as sitting ducks. I think Nevill managed to get a hand on the rifle and to manoeuvre it to smash the ceiling light, after which Jeremy became angry realizing it would be evidence left at the scene and that's when the overkill came into play with the broken stock and hale of bullets when Nevill was probably already dead.

I think if you are interested you will have an open mind about who was holding the rifle.


Offline Adam

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Re: Reconstruction of the Kitchen
« Reply #28 on: July 15, 2017, 04:38:PM »
The pathologist also said that her hands were clean too !!

They were. Apart from blood smudges on the back. Visible in the photos.

David's 3D diagrams will have to either have Sheila in her nightie & explain how it had no blood, oil, gun shot residue or damage.

Or it will show Sheila in her underwear. Which she took off after the massacre prior to putting her nightie on. For some reason.

Or it will have Sheila in the kitchen naked. Prior to putting her nightie on.
« Last Edit: July 15, 2017, 04:41:PM by Adam »
'Only I know what really happened that night'.

Offline Jan

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Re: Reconstruction of the Kitchen
« Reply #29 on: July 15, 2017, 04:39:PM »
David HAS to say there was no fight in the kitchen because he knows no forensics from other victims were found on Sheila. We don't know of course that the same could be said for Jeremy as he had time to clean up. Personally, I don't believe there was an actual fight either - I think Jeremy bludgeoned, Nevil with the rifle - he must have done because the stock broke off. I think Jeremy messed up the kitchen to make it look as though 'Sheila had gone mad'.

And left the breakfast bowls neatly on the table?