Author Topic: Noble cause  (Read 802 times)

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Offline buddy

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Noble cause
« on: June 05, 2017, 05:06:PM »
For those that are not sure what I mean, It is where the police are sure that a person is guilty of an offence but lack evidence, so make evidence fit the crime.
This has happened lots of times, but we only learn of such cases as the Guilford four, the Birmingham seven ect. There must be a lot more cases where this has happened where the police are desperate to make an arrest. The Michael Stone case is another example.
Stone had the same verdict 10/2, but the public were happy that the police had done a good job.
Problem is a innocent person is in jail.

Offline Caroline

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Re: Noble cause
« Reply #1 on: June 05, 2017, 07:14:PM »
For those that are not sure what I mean, It is where the police are sure that a person is guilty of an offence but lack evidence, so make evidence fit the crime.
This has happened lots of times, but we only learn of such cases as the Guilford four, the Birmingham seven ect. There must be a lot more cases where this has happened where the police are desperate to make an arrest. The Michael Stone case is another example.
Stone had the same verdict 10/2, but the public were happy that the police had done a good job.
Problem is a innocent person is in jail.

Were the police sure the the Guildford four and Birmingham six were guilty? I don't think they cared that much, they were Northern Irish and in the vicinity. Totally different kettle of fish.

As for Michael Stone, it hasn't yet been proven that he is innocent - it may well happen but the the evidence in his case wasn't fabricated by the police.
100% - No doubts!

Offline JackieD

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Re: Noble cause
« Reply #2 on: June 05, 2017, 09:48:PM »
Were the police sure the the Guildford four and Birmingham six were guilty? I don't think they cared that much, they were Northern Irish and in the vicinity. Totally different kettle of fish.

As for Michael Stone, it hasn't yet been proven that he is innocent - it may well happen but the the evidence in his case wasn't fabricated by the police.

Are you joking?

A file was witheld in the case of the people accused of the Guildford Bombings. The file was clearly labelled with 'do not show to the defence'. The police were well aware who was really responsible for the horrendous crime. But that's ok Caroline because you believe in noble cause corruption

Offline Caroline

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Re: Noble cause
« Reply #3 on: June 06, 2017, 03:22:AM »
Are you joking?

A file was witheld in the case of the people accused of the Guildford Bombings. The file was clearly labelled with 'do not show to the defence'. The police were well aware who was really responsible for the horrendous crime. But that's ok Caroline because you believe in noble cause corruption

No Jackie I wasn't joking

The Guildford four (and Birmingham six) were a REAL MOJ  which is why I said  these cases were a " Totally different kettle of fish" - sorry if it's confusing!
100% - No doubts!

Offline David1819

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Re: Noble cause
« Reply #4 on: June 06, 2017, 04:28:AM »
No Jackie I wasn't joking

The Guildford four (and Birmingham six) were a REAL MOJ  which is why I said  these cases were a " Totally different kettle of fish" - sorry if it's confusing!

Could you please provide us with the information as to why this is not a MOJ.

if your answer involves any of the following.

A) Nothing tangible
B) Evidence of absence
C) Shifting the burden of proof

It dose not answer anything.
« Last Edit: June 06, 2017, 04:29:AM by David1819 »
"The truth is incontrovertible. Malice may attack it, ignorance may deride it, but in the end, there it is."

Offline maggie

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Re: Noble cause
« Reply #5 on: June 06, 2017, 10:35:AM »
For those that are not sure what I mean, It is where the police are sure that a person is guilty of an offence but lack evidence, so make evidence fit the crime.
This has happened lots of times, but we only learn of such cases as the Guilford four, the Birmingham seven ect. There must be a lot more cases where this has happened where the police are desperate to make an arrest. The Michael Stone case is another example.
Stone had the same verdict 10/2, but the public were happy that the police had done a good job.
Problem is a innocent person is in jail.
Hi buddy
IMO Noble Cause Corruption is never acceptable.  We are supposed to have one of the best justice systems in the world because of habeas corpus, innocent before proven guilty etc.  Even so we still should be aware of corruption in our legal system.

Have you read about the appalling case of Christopher Alder and the massive cover up by police?

It's the thin end of the wedge and we should never accept any kind of corruption in our legal system. 

Better that one guilty person goes free than we close our eyes to corruption, manipulation and lying in the legal system.
« Last Edit: June 06, 2017, 10:41:AM by maggie »

Offline susan

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Re: Noble cause
« Reply #6 on: June 06, 2017, 10:45:AM »
Hi buddy
IMO Noble Cause Corruption is never acceptable.  We are supposed to have one of the best justice systems in the world because of habeas corpus, innocent before proven guilty etc.  Even so we still should be aware of corruption in our legal system.

Have you read about the appalling case of Christopher Alder and the massive cover up by police?

It's the thin end of the wedge and we should never accept any kind of corruption in our legal system. 

Better that one guilty person goes free than we close our eyes to corruption, manipulation and lying in the legal system.

Hi Maggie

it is horrendous that this is going on in this day and age but most of us believe it is.  I agree it is better that a guilty man walks free than society accepting corruption and lying is acceptable in our Judicial System.

Online lookout

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Re: Noble cause
« Reply #7 on: June 06, 2017, 10:52:AM »
The Christopher Alder case was horrendous.  A poor man lying on the floor dying while police ignored him. I remember the case,though don't know when it was but some cases stick in your mind. How his family coped with that I don't know as I don't think he even committed any crime either. It was awful the way he was treated.
You hear very little about the behaviour of the police at the time,which was disgusting.

Offline Caroline

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Re: Noble cause
« Reply #8 on: June 06, 2017, 11:26:AM »
Could you please provide us with the information as to why this is not a MOJ.

if your answer involves any of the following.

A) Nothing tangible
B) Evidence of absence
C) Shifting the burden of proof

It dose not answer anything.

Because he's guilty.
100% - No doubts!

Offline David1819

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Re: Noble cause
« Reply #9 on: June 06, 2017, 11:55:AM »
Because he's guilty.

Having stated an opinion, as opposed to fact, now justify it, back it up with your reasons.
« Last Edit: June 06, 2017, 11:56:AM by David1819 »
"The truth is incontrovertible. Malice may attack it, ignorance may deride it, but in the end, there it is."

Offline Caroline

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Re: Noble cause
« Reply #10 on: June 06, 2017, 12:08:PM »
Having stated an opinion, as opposed to fact, now justify it, back it up with your reasons.

Oh for gods sake, the forum is packed full of reasons. His whole story is bollocks and can't be backed up,he relies on spelling mistakes and admin errors to fight his case. No forensics on Sheila but he had time to clean himself up. He has changed his timings to fit in a call from Nevill - it's pathetic! The circumstantial evidence goes on and on. No there isn't much in the way of forensic evidence against him but he had time to make sure there wasn't.

 I don't hold with you theory that he's innocent because he would have been 'too tired' - that's possibly the weakkest argument I have heard yet!
100% - No doubts!

Offline maggie

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Re: Noble cause
« Reply #11 on: June 06, 2017, 12:14:PM »
The Christopher Alder case was horrendous.  A poor man lying on the floor dying while police ignored him. I remember the case,though don't know when it was but some cases stick in your mind. How his family coped with that I don't know as I don't think he even committed any crime either. It was awful the way he was treated.
You hear very little about the behaviour of the police at the time,which was disgusting.
Hi Lookout. it is still going on for the family, there was more to this case which makes it even worse if that is possible. 

Christopher Alder was an ex paratrooper who had served in the Falklands.  He died in police custody of suffocation in a dreadful racist physical attack by the police, it was recorded on CCTV so there is no doubt as to the cause of death.

His body was discovered in a morgue in Hull 11 years after he had officially been buried.  It turned out a woman had been buried in his grave by 'mistake'. 

His family suspect his body had been used for police training, a police watch dog has refused to investigate this.


« Last Edit: June 06, 2017, 12:32:PM by maggie »

Online lookout

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Re: Noble cause
« Reply #12 on: June 06, 2017, 12:26:PM »

Online lookout

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Re: Noble cause
« Reply #13 on: June 06, 2017, 12:38:PM »
Hi Lookout. it is still going on for the family, there was more to this case which makes it even worse if that is possible. 

Christopher Alder was an ex paratrooper who had served in the Falklands.  He died in police custody of suffocation in a dreadful racist physical attack by the police, it was recorded on CCTV so there is no doubt as to the cause of death.

His body was discovered in a morgue in Hull 11 years after he had officially been buried.  It turned out a woman had been buried in his grave by 'mistake'. 

His family suspect his body had been used for police training, a police watch dog has refused to investigate this.





Good Heavens,Maggie,I hadn't realised all that. I'd vaguely remembered that he'd suffocated,which was awful anyway,but had forgotten the history of what happened to him. What a disgrace to the poor man and his family.

Offline David1819

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Re: Noble cause
« Reply #14 on: June 06, 2017, 12:42:PM »
His whole story is bollocks and can't be backed up

Having stated an opinion, as opposed to fact, now justify it, back it up with your reasons.

No forensics on Sheila but he had time to clean himself up.

Having stated an opinion, as opposed to fact, now justify it, back it up with your reasons.

he relies on spelling mistakes and admin errors to fight his case.

Having stated an opinion, as opposed to fact, now justify it, back it up with your reasons.

He has changed his timings to fit in a call from Nevill - it's pathetic!

How does that prove he has massacred his family and engineered it into mass murder suicide?

The circumstantial evidence goes on and on.

Having stated an opinion, as opposed to fact, now justify it, back it up with your reasons.


I don't hold with you theory that he's innocent because he would have been 'too tired' - that's possibly the weakkest argument I have heard yet!
I never said that thou did I? I was simply giving a far more reasonable answer to 'the last trailer' which is in itself not even evidence of anything.



"The truth is incontrovertible. Malice may attack it, ignorance may deride it, but in the end, there it is."