Author Topic: A question on Sheila showering & removing gun shot residue:  (Read 820 times)

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Offline Adam

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Did Sheila change and have a shower after shooting herself twice ?
« Last Edit: May 30, 2017, 09:11:AM by Adam »
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Offline Adam

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Re: A question on Sheila showering & removing gun shot residue:
« Reply #1 on: May 29, 2017, 01:56:PM »
"After you have discharged the firearm, make sure that you escape and then go somewhere where you can dispose your clothes. Even burn them in order to make sure that there are no traces of evidence.

After that, take a shower and rub every inch of your body thoroughly. As much as possible, avoid using mild soaps and shower gels because it cannot help you in removing the gunshot residue on your body."

                                               --------------

If Sheila did have a shower & put her nightdress on after shooting herself twice, she would need to use very abrasive materials on her body.

Sheila wouldn't know this and there is no reason why she would bother trying to remove gun shot residue.

I have also read that the second shot would have instantly killed her meaning she could not change & have a shower.
« Last Edit: May 29, 2017, 02:05:PM by Adam »
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Offline Adam

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Re: A question on Sheila showering & removing gun shot residue:
« Reply #2 on: May 29, 2017, 02:08:PM »
Another problem with Sheila having a shower after shooting herself twice is there was blood on Sheila, which would have been washed off during a shower.
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Offline Adam

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Re: A question on Sheila showering & removing gun shot residue:
« Reply #3 on: May 29, 2017, 02:15:PM »
Hopefully Susan will answer the thread question.

She has always been keen on the possibility that Sheila had a shower after the massacre. Although there is no reason why Sheila would use special gun residue cleaning agents as she wasn't trying to hide her guilt.
« Last Edit: May 29, 2017, 02:26:PM by Adam »
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Offline lookout

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Re: A question on Sheila showering & removing gun shot residue:
« Reply #4 on: May 29, 2017, 02:39:PM »
Did Sheila have a shower after shooting herself twice ?





What do you think ?  ::)

Offline Adam

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Re: A question on Sheila showering & removing gun shot residue:
« Reply #5 on: May 29, 2017, 04:51:PM »




What do you think ?  ::)

My view is that Sheila didn't have a shower & use specialist abrasive cleaning agents to attempt to wash off gun shot residue. Especially after shooting herself twice.

The only way Sheila would have avoided getting gun shot residue on her hands, nightdress and body, from two gun shots into her neck is if someone else shot her.

What do you think of this view ? 

« Last Edit: May 29, 2017, 04:56:PM by Adam »
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Offline susan

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Re: A question on Sheila showering & removing gun shot residue:
« Reply #6 on: May 29, 2017, 05:03:PM »
My view is that Sheila didn't have a shower & use specialist abrasive cleaning agents to attempt to wash off gun shot residue. Especially after shooting herself twice.

The only way Sheila would have avoided getting gun shot residue on her hands, nightdress and body, from two gun shots into her neck is if someone else shot her.

What do you think of this view ?

Adam as you know I have always thought Sheila changed her clothes and I am at the stage whereas I cannot believe she did not have gun residue on her hands maybe she did and it was not reported remember Taff said 4 murders one suicide so therefore the farm was not treated as such as a crime scene and evidence was not protected even the silencer was handed from pillar to post so many handled it and it was not placed in a bag as it should have been.

Offline Adam

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Re: A question on Sheila showering & removing gun shot residue:
« Reply #7 on: May 29, 2017, 05:22:PM »
47. The firearms officers who were the first to see her body noted that her feet and hands were "perfectly clean". Her fingernails were well manicured and not broken and there were no marks or indentations on any of her fingers. All her fingertips were clean and free from any blood, dirt or powder and there appeared to be no trace of any lead dust or coating which is usual when handling .22 ammunition.

48. The act of loading the magazine of an automatic weapon (carried out at least twice in this case) would be expected to leave visible traces of the lubricant and the materials from the bullets on the hands.

49. DC Hammersley, the Scenes of Crimes Officer placed plastic bags over Sheila Caffell's hands and feet before her body was removed from the farmhouse. He saw some blood staining to the back of the right hand, but apart from that the hands, to his eye were clean and the nails intact. The deceased's feet were also free from blood staining and from any debris such as sugar.

50. Following removal of the bags at the mortuary, Sheila Caffell's hands and forehead were swabbed. Extremely low traces of lead were detected when the swabs were examined. Such levels being consistent with the levels found from the handling of every day things around the house. These results were compared to hand swabs taken from volunteers at the laboratory who were required to load the magazine with eighteen rounds of ammunition. Significantly higher traces of lead were found than those recorded on the hands of Mrs Caffell. The scientist Mr Elliott gave evidence that if Sheila Caffell had loaded eighteen cartridges into a magazine he would have expected the hand swabs to have revealed appreciably higher deposits of lead.

51. Mrs Caffell's nightdress was bloodstained. When tested the blood was consistent with being her own blood. The garment was also examined for the presence of any firearm discharge residues or oil from the rifle. No such traces were found. The scientist gave evidence that there would be a strong chance of finding such residues or markings on the clothing of an individual who had fired a rifle.
« Last Edit: May 31, 2017, 04:47:PM by Adam »
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Offline Adam

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Re: A question on Sheila showering & removing gun shot residue:
« Reply #8 on: May 29, 2017, 05:36:PM »
Adam as you know I have always thought Sheila changed her clothes and I am at the stage whereas I cannot believe she did not have gun residue on her hands maybe she did and it was not reported remember Taff said 4 murders one suicide so therefore the farm was not treated as such as a crime scene and evidence was not protected even the silencer was handed from pillar to post so many handled it and it was not placed in a bag as it should have been.

My post above says the evidence was Sheila had no blood, lead, oil.or gun shot residue on her. Taff supported murder/suicide prior to this evidence being processed. 

It is possible for Sheila to have washed this all off. Using specialist abrasive gun shot residue cleaning items. As well as change clothes.  Why she would want to do this, I don't know.

The main problem is Sheila would have to had done all this after committing suicide.

« Last Edit: May 29, 2017, 05:43:PM by Adam »
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Offline Adam

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Re: A question on Sheila showering & removing gun shot residue:
« Reply #9 on: May 30, 2017, 01:56:PM »
No one has said how Sheila showered & changed after she had killed herself.

There is also no evidence that there were special cleaning materials for gun shot residue at WHF. There is no reason why Sheila would want spend time to vigorously wash this off anyway. 

I'm not sure why after killing herself, Sheila would change into a nightie. A nightie is the sort of thing people wear when in bed. Sleeping.

The only explanation why there was no oil, blood or gun shot residue on Sheila's body or nightdress is that someone else shot her.

I will put this thread into the library.
« Last Edit: May 30, 2017, 02:08:PM by Adam »
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Online mike tesko

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Re: A question on Sheila showering & removing gun shot residue:
« Reply #10 on: June 01, 2017, 06:23:PM »
Did Sheila change and have a shower after shooting herself twice ?

No, of course not because despite what Jeremy and his current team are trying to suggest, Sheila did not shoot herself, and there was no time or opportunity for Sheila to take a shower after being shot in the kitchen on the first occasion, and later when she was shot dead in the bedroom. This is because directly after being shot in the kitchen Sheila was stunned into subconsciousness. After the second fatal shot under the chin in the main bedroom death was according to the pathologists evidence instantaneous - so Sheila taking a shower after she didn't shoot herself is out of the question! On the other hand there was nothing to stop her from taking a shower and cleaning herself up after she shot and murdered the other four victims!
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Offline Adam

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Re: A question on Sheila showering & removing gun shot residue:
« Reply #11 on: June 01, 2017, 06:54:PM »
No, of course not because despite what Jeremy and his current team are trying to suggest, Sheila did not shoot herself, and there was no time or opportunity for Sheila to take a shower after being shot in the kitchen on the first occasion, and later when she was shot dead in the bedroom. This is because directly after being shot in the kitchen Sheila was stunned into subconsciousness. After the second fatal shot under the chin in the main bedroom death was according to the pathologists evidence instantaneous - so Sheila taking a shower after she didn't shoot herself is out of the question! On the other hand there was nothing to stop her from taking a shower and cleaning herself up after she shot and murdered the other four victims!

Thanks Mike. It's a pity there is no evidence Sheila had a shower. I'm not sure she had the time to do this & everything else between Nevill calling the police & the police arriving. Which was only around 20 minutes.

Unfortunately Sheila having a shower would not have removed evidence of her 24 rifle shots.

Why do you think Sheila killed everyone so forcefully, then waited hours until the police entered WHF & shot her ?  Thought her aim was to committ murder/suicide.
« Last Edit: June 01, 2017, 06:59:PM by Adam »
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Offline Caroline

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Re: A question on Sheila showering & removing gun shot residue:
« Reply #12 on: June 01, 2017, 07:16:PM »
No, of course not because despite what Jeremy and his current team are trying to suggest, Sheila did not shoot herself, and there was no time or opportunity for Sheila to take a shower after being shot in the kitchen on the first occasion, and later when she was shot dead in the bedroom. This is because directly after being shot in the kitchen Sheila was stunned into subconsciousness. After the second fatal shot under the chin in the main bedroom death was according to the pathologists evidence instantaneous - so Sheila taking a shower after she didn't shoot herself is out of the question! On the other hand there was nothing to stop her from taking a shower and cleaning herself up after she shot and murdered the other four victims!

Well, I agree with that!
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Offline sherlock

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Re: A question on Sheila showering & removing gun shot residue:
« Reply #13 on: June 02, 2017, 08:49:PM »
My view is that Sheila didn't have a shower & use specialist abrasive cleaning agents to attempt to wash off gun shot residue. Especially after shooting herself twice.

The only way Sheila would have avoided getting gun shot residue on her hands, nightdress and body, from two gun shots into her neck is if someone else shot her.

What do you think of this view ?

Excellent post Adam ...

Like Mike said it is arguably possible that she could have cleaned herself up after 4 murders ...

But it is obvious she could not have cleaned herself up after shooting herself ...

Is there any explanation anyone why her hands and night dress had no traces ?

I would love to hear anybodies theories on how this is possible ...

But for me it looks like it was either Jeremy and / or a hitman or one or more of the relatives ...

Even though Sheila discussed killing her children with her doctor the lack of hand and clothing traces from the last 2 shots cannot be explained by her cleaning herself up - so i agree Adam - it does not look at all likely (or even possible) that Sheila shot herself ...

But why didn't this lack of hand or clothing marks ring alarm bells with Essex Police ?
Or did it ? were they working on this when Julie and the silencer turned up ?
Any ideas on this Adam or anybody else ?

Once again - excellent post Adam ...

Offline justice

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Re: A question on Sheila showering & removing gun shot residue:
« Reply #14 on: June 02, 2017, 08:59:PM »
Excellent post Adam ...

Like Mike said it is arguably possible that she could have cleaned herself up after 4 murders ...

But it is obvious she could not have cleaned herself up after shooting herself ...

Is there any explanation anyone why her hands and night dress had no traces ?

I would love to hear anybodies theories on how this is possible ...

But for me it looks like it was either Jeremy and / or a hitman or one or more of the relatives ...

Even though Sheila discussed killing her children with her doctor the lack of hand and clothing traces from the last 2 shots cannot be explained by her cleaning herself up - so i agree Adam - it does not look at all likely (or even possible) that Sheila shot herself ...

But why didn't this lack of hand or clothing marks ring alarm bells with Essex Police ?
Or did it ? were they working on this when Julie and the silencer turned up ?
Any ideas on this Adam or anybody else ?

Once again - excellent post Adam ...
I think they admit they read it wrong Sherlock, I think officers did quietly have doubts but at the early stage were not vocal, only Stan spoke his mind at a later meeting at WHF.

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Envy kills,” the Pope said. “It does not tolerate others having something that I do not have. And it always suffers, because the heart of an envious or jealous person suffers. It is a suffering heart!” It is a suffering that desires “the death of others