Hi

[Lucy522]

It was the bathroom window. Nothing would be knocked off upon entry.  The window was downstairs in a big house. Behind doors.  It was already loose after Bamber had used a hack saw on it.  Or had been left ajar by Bamber that evening.

The  dog was not a guard dog. Dog's sleep as well. It may have been locked in a separate room at night.

Ann said things had been moved from their usual place, why would she say that she hardly went there?

[Lucy522]

What if Nevill, usually last to turn in, fell asleep downstairs in his chair... and allowed the 'light sleeper' June to slumber undisturbed?

If he was downstairs then he would of been shot first down there, the shooter would of had him out the way straight away,  he was the biggest threat and I can't see him allowing someone upstairs to shoot his sleeping wife? There would of been a commotion either way and June would be out of bed ??

[Lucy522]

Lucy I believe the dog barked initially when anyone entered the house,be it family or visitors,then it stopped. Crispy was apparently barking continuously.
Mr Wager,the painter/decorator mentioned this when he was working on the house.He even said it would probably bite too.
Someone running amok around the house would have caused the dog to be either distressed or excitable ( as in a game ) therefore making it bark.
Jeremy would have either back-heeled it or even shot it because he couldn't stand it-------so why didn't he ? A traumatised animal,especially an old traumatised animal would be put to sleep anyway.

I agree, so the theory Neville was shot in the bedroom first I don't think is true, he would of come downstairs,
Someone came through the bathroom  window, the dog would of been barking, June would of woken up, he would of come downstairs, tee killer had to come in in the pitch black,without disturbing anything,  find the gun,load the gun, then go upstairs to begin, It doesn't sit right, I think neveille would of put the gun away that eveningss the twins were in the house ?,

[Adam]

Ann said things had been moved from their usual place, why would she say that she hardly went there?

What things had been moved from their usual place ? If by the bathroom window, that is not surprising. Bamber entered through it.

[Adam]

So Nevill woke and heard Bamber climb through the downstairs window. Went downstairs and was shot downstairs, went upstairs and was shot again, then went back downstairs.

June would have woken up, but didn't wake up while Sheila was going crazy over a long period. And Nevill did not wake June. Preferring to ring Bamber 3 miles away. At 3am.

Bamber knew the house so could get up the stairs without turning on any lights. The rifle was already loaded and either hidden by Bamber earlier that night, or in the unlocked gun cupboard.

[lookout]

June was a light sleeper. In fact she was a bad sleeper who suffered from nightmares which kept her awake. Latterly,for whatever reason,she'd been seeing her GP regularly for 6 months up to the tragedy,probably stress because of worry over Sheila. June would have heard a pin drop let alone the sound of a gun going off.

Neville would have initially been downstairs after returning late from walking the dogs,then showering and very likely heard Sheila ranting,upstairs. He may have heard gunshots but perhaps thought that the shots were fired upwards as a " warning " and not the fact that Sheila could possibly have shot the twins at that point. On hearing shots,Neville would have rang Jeremy, then he would have made his way upstairs to see what was going on and while upstairs was shot himself so he retreated back down again into the kitchen where Sheila had followed,most likely still ranting and revealing the very sick side to her illness.
 ( I was witness last year to a very sick woman whose shouting sounded like that of a man and a neighbour had reported the shouting as being a " drunken man " causing a breach of the peace,but in actual fact the woman suffered from paranoia and spent 3+ months in hospital  There'd always been the shouting,but it got progressively worse. The change in the tone of her voice was creepy to say the least. )
Their moods can change in an instant and their main attackers are those that they love,strange as it may seem. 

[Caroline]

Ann said things had been moved from their usual place, why would she say that she hardly went there?

She didn't, it was the housekeeper Jean Bouttell

[Caroline]

June was a light sleeper. In fact she was a bad sleeper who suffered from nightmares which kept her awake. Latterly,for whatever reason,she'd been seeing her GP regularly for 6 months up to the tragedy,probably stress because of worry over Sheila. June would have heard a pin drop let alone the sound of a gun going off.

Neville would have initially been downstairs after returning late from walking the dogs,then showering and very likely heard Sheila ranting,upstairs. He may have heard gunshots but perhaps thought that the shots were fired upwards as a " warning " and not the fact that Sheila could possibly have shot the twins at that point. On hearing shots,Neville would have rang Jeremy, then he would have made his way upstairs to see what was going on and while upstairs was shot himself so he retreated back down again into the kitchen where Sheila had followed,most likely still ranting and revealing the very sick side to her illness.
 ( I was witness last year to a very sick woman whose shouting sounded like that of a man and a neighbour had reported the shouting as being a " drunken man " causing a breach of the peace,but in actual fact the woman suffered from paranoia and spent 3+ months in hospital  There'd always been the shouting,but it got progressively worse. The change in the tone of her voice was creepy to say the least. )
Their moods can change in an instant and their main attackers are those that they love,strange as it may seem.

Nevill heard shots but didn't call the police and didn't tell Jeremy shots had been fired. I doubt it! But as you add your personal experience into the mix, I have recently had experience of someone close to me taking haldoperidol and they were out of it. The dose was MUCH smaller than that given to Sheila and they couldn't function.

[Adam]

It's good that supporters have different theories on how Sheila commited the massacre.

This week Mike has said Nevill phoned Bamber and the police after getting two body shots. And today Lookout has said Nevill heard upstairs shots but thought Sheila was firing warning shots into the ceiling. So Nevill phoned his son. As you do.

[Adam]

June was a light sleeper. In fact she was a bad sleeper who suffered from nightmares which kept her awake. Latterly,for whatever reason,she'd been seeing her GP regularly for 6 months up to the tragedy,probably stress because of worry over Sheila. June would have heard a pin drop let alone the sound of a gun going off.

Neville would have initially been downstairs after returning late from walking the dogs,then showering and very likely heard Sheila ranting,upstairs. He may have heard gunshots but perhaps thought that the shots were fired upwards as a " warning " and not the fact that Sheila could possibly have shot the twins at that point. On hearing shots,Neville would have rang Jeremy, then he would have made his way upstairs to see what was going on and while upstairs was shot himself so he retreated back down again into the kitchen where Sheila had followed,most likely still ranting and revealing the very sick side to her illness.
 ( I was witness last year to a very sick woman whose shouting sounded like that of a man and a neighbour had reported the shouting as being a " drunken man " causing a breach of the peace,but in actual fact the woman suffered from paranoia and spent 3+ months in hospital  There'd always been the shouting,but it got progressively worse. The change in the tone of her voice was creepy to say the least. )
Their moods can change in an instant and their main attackers are those that they love,strange as it may seem.

It's good that you agree Nevill did not phone the police. This scenario makes it impossible.

[Roch]

If he was downstairs then he would of been shot first down there, the shooter would of had him out the way straight away,  he was the biggest threat and I can't see him allowing someone upstairs to shoot his sleeping wife? There would of been a commotion either way and June would be out of bed ??

If he was asleep downstairs - and Sheila wanted to send herself and her babies to their rest upstairs - he is not necessarily an immediate threat. 

[lookout]

It's good that you agree Nevill did not phone the police. This scenario makes it impossible.

I didn't say that he didn't ring the police. It would have been minutes after he'd phoned Jeremy. Hence the phone being engaged when Jeremy tried to ring back.

[Caroline]

If he was asleep downstairs - and Sheila wanted to send herself and her babies to their rest upstairs - he is not necessarily an immediate threat.

Why would he be asleep downstairs? How would he not have heard her 'get the gun' and load it? If she wanted to kill herself and children, how come she shot June? But the easiest way to have done that would have been to kill all at the flat.

[lookout]

Why would he be asleep downstairs? How would he not have heard her 'get the gun' and load it? If she wanted to kill herself and children, how come she shot June? But the easiest way to have done that would have been to kill all at the flat.

Neville could have been in the lounge having his usual " nightcap ". Many people nod off after having taken the dog out,then bathing/showering,ending with a stiff drink. It's a relaxing time. He could have heard Sheila entering the kitchen where both struck up a conversation,leading to a heated argument with Sheila pouring out all her grievances ( she'd had many ) and so the tragedy began.

[Lucy522]

I didn't say that he didn't ring the police. It would have been minutes after he'd phoned Jeremy. Hence the phone being engaged when Jeremy tried to ring back.

Lookout was there ever a cal recorded from whf to the police?

If he did phone Jeremy first I don't believe Sheila was an immediate threat/began shooting at that time??