Author Topic: Hi  (Read 2118 times)

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Offline Steve_uk

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Re: Hi
« Reply #30 on: February 06, 2017, 10:51:PM »
Nevill was worried about his children. He suspected that Jeremy had broken into Osea Road and there were the unpaid loans which he probably felt would never be repaid. Sheila had suffered a breakdown in March 1985 and there was tension between Jeremy and June. He had been off work from his magistrate's job with stress and there was the harvest coming up with the extra burden that entailed as well as the shooting season, where accidents do happen..

Offline Lucy522

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Re: Hi
« Reply #31 on: February 06, 2017, 10:55:PM »
Nevill was worried about his children. He suspected that Jeremy had broken into Osea Road and there were the unpaid loans which he probably felt would never be repaid. Sheila had suffered a breakdown in March 1985 and there was tension between Jeremy and June. He had been off work from his magistrate's job with stress and there was the harvest coming up with the extra burden that entailed as well as the shooting season, where accidents do happen..
All reasons to worry, it seems quite an unstable family to be honest, nobody knows what goes on behind closed doors.. do you think Neville was scared of Jeremy? Do you think the conversation about fostering actually took place? Or was it just to set the scene and cause conflict?

Offline Steve_uk

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Re: Hi
« Reply #32 on: February 06, 2017, 11:11:PM »
All reasons to worry, it seems quite an unstable family to be honest, nobody knows what goes on behind closed doors.. do you think Neville was scared of Jeremy? Do you think the conversation about fostering actually took place? Or was it just to set the scene and cause conflict?
There may have been some discussion about bringing in girls from the village to babysit, as had happened previously. According to Julie it was Jeremy who tried to sour relations by mentioning fostering round the table. He also made reference to Sheila's hospital bills and the parents' intention to use the NHS the next time she was ill.

This is a thread I wrote a few years ago which you may find useful.


Julie Mugford was not out for all she could get. She first met Jeremy at a London bar in November 1983 where they were both working and they felt a mutual attraction. It wasn't until a few months later that she realized the farming connection, and at that time Jeremy didn't even have the cottage at Goldhanger. Here is Jeremy back from his working holiday in New Zealand, not wanting to enter the farming way of life, feeling his way around maybe at a bit of a loss, whereupon he meets Julie.

Julie would stay at the cottage in Goldhanger during the holidays and it was then that she would come to meet June Bamber. The atmosphere would have been tense whenever June called, sometimes with Sheila and the twins but mostly alone. Again Julie sensed June's disapproval of her relationship with Jeremy and June made it clear that biblically they were living in sin together and that Julie was a harlot. June's hypocrisy is manifested because Sheila is not good enough to marry her son, a view she would have imparted to Jeremy, but again Julie is not in this relationship for short-term gain as she rejects June's offer of buying them a flat if they would leave the village and thereby stop the rumours flowing at the Queen's Head, which were damaging to Ralph's status as the local magistrate.


Jeremy had a strange view of relationships which he had learnt from his parents having employed farm staff: people were used for what they could offer and in return they received payment. There was no emotion involved and Jeremy accepted this as normal;when he one time visited Julie's relations he couldn't understand the tactile nature and the feeling of benevolence in the family was quite alien to him. It was this feeling of warmth and loyalty which kept him in the relationship with an older woman, Suzette Ford, for a number of years.

Julie was also learning fast in Thatcherite Britain;the lesson that money talks. Why, she inquired, did Jeremy not just cut loose, leave his family behind and move on? Because, retorted Jeremy, he had too much to lose. It was in this atmosphere that Julie became cocooned, and it is one explanation that inured her to Jeremy's unpleasant and cruel streak.

At the turn of the year 1985 Jeremy had been harbouring thoughts about harming his family. The farming lifestyle didn't suit, Sheila was living it up in London whilst the agricultural life was hard physical labour, June was unreliable and might easily change her will and leave money to the Church. Jeremy was a disappointment to Ralph who wanted an heir to take over the managerial responsibility the farm as a business entailed. Jeremy wasn't a natural leader, he didn't inspire confidence around him, and Jeremy was restless. If only his family would disappear Jeremy could receive his inheritance and move on. Spurred by a chance conversation with Colin Caffell and believing that the twins were "a millstone round his neck" Jeremy began to conceive ways that his family might disappear. He made hints to Julie, who busy with the fatigue of teaching practice and giving of herself in a way not demanded by other jobs, did not take him seriously and preoccupied herself with her immediate future gaining the necessary qualifications to make something of her life. Jeremy himself had never looked far ahead in a constructive way, having failed his first attempt at gaining qualifications. As a product of a public school it was others who occupied themselves with the menial tasks and as long as Jeremy had a cheque book he felt security thereby.

It was this callous disregard for people over money which set Jeremy on his evil course. He at first borrowed some of Julie's sleeping pills and drugged his parents' bedtime drinks one night but upon inquiring the following morning as to their slumber realized that they had experienced no detrimental effects. Jeremy was becoming desperate, especially when he saw the bills for Sheila's psychiatric care in March 1985 which were running into thousands of pounds and cutting into his inheritance. He discussed burning the house down with Julie but was talked out of this when he discovered the house was underinsured and many valuable heirlooms would be irreparably lost. It was then that he realized the solution that had been in the back of his mind all along,but even callous Jeremy had rejected it as an extreme solution for one so squeamish about guns. He would have to personally execute the family and make it look as if Sheila had killed them all.

Julie's primary school experience and training kicked in. How could he possibly kill the twins? And here, reader, how could a prospective teacher of small children who must have seen children like them on a regular basis in an educational setting sitting on those tiny plywood chairs with their uncorrupted faces not recoil at such a wicked scheme? Did Julie plead with Jeremy to save the twins, to spare them from this murder ritual, as frightening as any religious ritual that June had made her children and now her grandchildren endure at church and at the farm? No, replied Jeremy heartlessly, the twins would have to go, they were stopping Colin from obtaining regular employment and he would be able to move on with a life and make a fresh start, just as he,Jeremy, was planning to do.


Is it this thought,the thought that she could have saved the family, the spectre of Sheila's boys which haunts Julie every day, the new day which dawns in the backdrop of that bleak Canadian landscape?  Sheila's boys, Jeremy's future rivals in the profit-driven culture of the time, were not to be spared. Julie's way of making amends is to put her life and soul into her own children, her immediate family, to please her husband and to provide enrichment for other people's children, thousands of miles away, the geographical distance numbing somewhat the ramifications of those events twenty seven years ago, though the universality of childhood must bring the tears flooding back on occasion after the school bell has rung.



« Last Edit: March 01, 2017, 06:27:PM by Steve_uk »

Offline Caroline

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Re: Hi
« Reply #33 on: February 07, 2017, 07:21:PM »
Hi Caroline, I've never thought of it like that before, more food for thought, what's the one piece of evidence that makes you think guilty the most?

The phone from Nevill doesn't ring true, the timings are all wrong.
100% GUILTY - No doubts!

Offline Adam

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Re: Hi
« Reply #34 on: February 07, 2017, 07:48:PM »
I do believe it was Sheila, i just can't get my head around the sequence of events,  what do you think happened lookout,?.

How do you think Sheila did it ?

There has been different theories. The last three being -

Nevill was shot twice in the body. Then went downstairs to ring Bamber & then the police 16 minutes later.

Sheila started shooting the twins. Nevill decided to go downstairs to ring Bamber and then the police 16 minutes later.

Sheila & Nevill both bare footed & in pyjamas/nightdress started talking about fostering downstairs at 3am. Sheila loaded, chambered and breached the rifle. Then went upstairs with it. Nevill didn't attempt to stop her, perferring to ring Bamber.
« Last Edit: February 07, 2017, 07:58:PM by Adam »
'Only I know what really happened that night'.

Offline Lucy522

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Re: Hi
« Reply #35 on: February 07, 2017, 09:31:PM »
How do you think Sheila did it ?

There has been different theories. The last three being -

Nevill was shot twice in the body. Then went downstairs to ring Bamber & then the police 16 minutes later.

Sheila started shooting the twins. Nevill decided to go downstairs to ring Bamber and then the police 16 minutes later.

Sheila & Nevill both bare footed & in pyjamas/nightdress started talking about fostering downstairs at 3am. Sheila loaded, chambered and breached the rifle. Then went upstairs with it. Nevill didn't attempt to stop her, perferring to ring Bamber.

I don't believe anybody was shot before the phonecall (if that's true), he wouldn't of phoned Jeremy if she was already shooting, maybe she had hold of the gun and was threatening to shoot them, but I don't for one second believe anybody in their right mind,  if someone was shooting their family with a loaded gun they would call their son, if the phonecall is true, in my mind no injuries had been caused at that moment, I think maybe June was shot first or the twins, while Neville was/if he was on the phone he then came back upstairs when the phone got cut off after hearing shots and that's when he was shot the first time, he then ran back downstairs to call the police hence the bloody fingerprints on the worktop,

What's your thoughts?

Offline Adam

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Re: Hi
« Reply #36 on: February 08, 2017, 04:52:AM »
I don't believe anybody was shot before the phonecall (if that's true), he wouldn't of phoned Jeremy if she was already shooting, maybe she had hold of the gun and was threatening to shoot them, but I don't for one second believe anybody in their right mind,  if someone was shooting their family with a loaded gun they would call their son, if the phonecall is true, in my mind no injuries had been caused at that moment, I think maybe June was shot first or the twins, while Neville was/if he was on the phone he then came back upstairs when the phone got cut off after hearing shots and that's when he was shot the first time, he then ran back downstairs to call the police hence the bloody fingerprints on the worktop,

What's your thoughts?

If Sheila was not shooting anyone, why did Nevill just say 11 words to Bamber - 'Please come over, Sheila's gone crazy and she's got the gun'.

Nevill had let her load, breach and chamber the rifle. Then let her go upstairs alone with a rifle. So he didn't think she was a threat or going crazy. So would not have phoned Bamber.

If Nevill did think Sheila was a threat or she was shooting people, Bamber couldn't do anything for 20 minutes, if he eventually woke from sleeping 'like a log' & decided to answer the phone.  Which would take several more minutes.  Although he didn't arrive until 40 minutes later & never entered WHF.

Shooting or not shootng,  threat or no threat there is no benefit in phoning Bamber at 3am.
« Last Edit: February 08, 2017, 05:19:AM by Adam »
'Only I know what really happened that night'.

Offline Lucy522

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Re: Hi
« Reply #37 on: February 08, 2017, 07:00:AM »
If Sheila was not shooting anyone, why did Nevill just say 11 words to Bamber - 'Please come over, Sheila's gone crazy and she's got the gun'.

Nevill had let her load, breach and chamber the rifle. Then let her go upstairs alone with a rifle. So he didn't think she was a threat or going crazy. So would not have phoned Bamber.

If Nevill did think Sheila was a threat or she was shooting people, Bamber couldn't do anything for 20 minutes, if he eventually woke from sleeping 'like a log' & decided to answer the phone.  Which would take several more minutes.  Although he didn't arrive until 40 minutes later & never entered WHF.

Shooting or not shootng,  threat or no threat there is no benefit in phoning Bamber at 3am.


Neville may of been asleep and woke up and Sheila had the gun, I see what you mean though about the benefit of the phonecall, he may have been trying to calm her down but it aggravated the situation more, but I can't help feeling June would of been out of bed to if that was the case, this bit puzzles me greatly, was there any record of a phonecall from whf to the polive??

Offline Adam

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Re: Hi
« Reply #38 on: February 08, 2017, 08:44:AM »
If Nevill woke up & Sheila had the gun, he would not have phoned Bamber. Sheila would have started firing, or was passive enough to be disarmed.

Posters have said June was a light sleeper but was shot while asleep.  June is more likely to be woken by Sheila & Nevill kicking off over a long period than by Bamber creeping upstairs.

Nevill would also wake June rather than phone Bamber. She was an available adult who was safer awake than asleep & could cover the twins.
« Last Edit: February 08, 2017, 09:04:AM by Adam »
'Only I know what really happened that night'.

Offline Lucy522

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Re: Hi
« Reply #39 on: February 08, 2017, 04:23:PM »
If Nevill woke up & Sheila had the gun, he would not have phoned Bamber. Sheila would have started firing, or was passive enough to be disarmed.

Posters have said June was a light sleeper but was shot while asleep.  June is more likely to be woken by Sheila & Nevill kicking off over a long period than by Bamber creeping upstairs.

Nevill would also wake June rather than phone Bamber. She was an available adult who was safer awake than asleep & could cover the twins.

I'm so confused now !!!

Offline Lucy522

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Re: Hi
« Reply #40 on: February 08, 2017, 04:42:PM »
If Nevill woke up & Sheila had the gun, he would not have phoned Bamber. Sheila would have started firing, or was passive enough to be disarmed.

Posters have said June was a light sleeper but was shot while asleep.  June is more likely to be woken by Sheila & Nevill kicking off over a long period than by Bamber creeping upstairs.

Nevill would also wake June rather than phone Bamber. She was an available adult who was safer awake than asleep & could cover the twins.

But if June was a light sleeper how the hell did they not hear him wrenching the window open in the kitchen he would of knocked things off and the dog would be barking

Offline Roch

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Re: Hi
« Reply #41 on: February 08, 2017, 04:53:PM »
If Nevill woke up & Sheila had the gun, he would not have phoned Bamber. Sheila would have started firing, or was passive enough to be disarmed.

Posters have said June was a light sleeper but was shot while asleep.  June is more likely to be woken by Sheila & Nevill kicking off over a long period than by Bamber creeping upstairs.

Nevill would also wake June rather than phone Bamber. She was an available adult who was safer awake than asleep & could cover the twins.

What if Nevill, usually last to turn in, fell asleep downstairs in his chair... and allowed the 'light sleeper' June to slumber undisturbed?
"She was on a mission - a date with death, in league with the devil..." 

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Offline lookout

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Re: Hi
« Reply #42 on: February 08, 2017, 06:08:PM »
But if June was a light sleeper how the hell did they not hear him wrenching the window open in the kitchen he would of knocked things off and the dog would be barking





Lucy I believe the dog barked initially when anyone entered the house,be it family or visitors,then it stopped. Crispy was apparently barking continuously.
Mr Wager,the painter/decorator mentioned this when he was working on the house.He even said it would probably bite too.
Someone running amok around the house would have caused the dog to be either distressed or excitable ( as in a game ) therefore making it bark.
Jeremy would have either back-heeled it or even shot it because he couldn't stand it-------so why didn't he ? A traumatised animal,especially an old traumatised animal would be put to sleep anyway.

Offline Adam

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Re: Hi
« Reply #43 on: February 08, 2017, 06:10:PM »
But if June was a light sleeper how the hell did they not hear him wrenching the window open in the kitchen he would of knocked things off and the dog would be barking

It was the bathroom window. Nothing would be knocked off upon entry.  The window was downstairs in a big house. Behind doors.  It was already loose after Bamber had used a hack saw on it.  Or had been left ajar by Bamber that evening.

The  dog was not a guard dog. Dog's sleep as well. It may have been locked in a separate room at night.
« Last Edit: February 08, 2017, 06:12:PM by Adam »
'Only I know what really happened that night'.

Offline lookout

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Re: Hi
« Reply #44 on: February 08, 2017, 06:19:PM »
Crispy had the run of the house and wasn't locked up anywhere.