Should child criminals be granted anonymity?

[Stephanie]

Your attitude belongs in medieval times. Try to remember that we live in the 21st century now and things have moved on.

Unfortunately Petey some people are more concerned with keeping up appearances etc.

[lookout]

Just think about " compassion " and the untold damage being " compassionate " has done !!

[Steve_uk]

The problem is striking a balance between having it too cushy in one of these units, where Thompson by all accounts knew his rights and ordered staff around, and preparing them for the world outside, which has become an ever-increasing jungle since the 1960s, where you could change your job at the drop of a hat. Nobody does seem to care anymore and Venables has gone off the rails, though one wonders if it's too cynical to judge success by saying that at least they haven't murdered again so far.  http://www.telegraph.co.uk/comment/7908605/Prison-is-what-Jon-Venables-knows-best.html

[lookout]

Unfortunately Petey some people are more concerned with keeping up appearances etc.

What on earth has this subject got to do with appearances ?

[Jane]

Just think about " compassion " and the untold damage being " compassionate " has done !!

You appear to come from a position of believing most of the world -and we who inhabit it- as being bad or just plain evil. In an imperfect world compassion WILL be abused. It will be thrown back in the faces of those who offer it but I don't see that as a reason for withholding it from those who may benefit from it by turning their lives around. 

[Stephanie]

Getting back to my previous question.Would you rehabilitate JB IF he was a murderer,though in your eyes he is,so the question has more relevance.

Double standards?

Guilt by assossiation.

[lookout]

Double standards?

Guilt by assossiation.

Double standards what ?
Guilt by association what ?

[Jane]

Getting back to my previous question.Would you rehabilitate JB IF he was a murderer,though in your eyes he is,so the question has more relevance.

Lookout, rehabilitation can't be forced on people and certainly can't be given to those who have never admitted their guilt, so presumably don't want it. As Jeremy falls in this category, I imagine this applies to him.

[lookout]

You appear to come from a position of believing most of the world -and we who inhabit it- as being bad or just plain evil. In an imperfect world compassion WILL be abused. It will be thrown back in the faces of those who offer it but I don't see that as a reason for withholding it from those who may benefit from it by turning their lives around.

Yes,because I was born in an entirely different era when the law-makers acted upon crime as it happened. They were tough, and hard times financially,but------the world's BEST NHS and the BEST education. What went wrong ? 

People would do well to be told how this country used to be.

I went on a site the other night,just reading the different posts,and it happened to have been within the area where I was born with loads of people who I'd known 60 years ago and they were all of the same idea about the changes that have taken place over the years. Most of us had attended the same school,worked at the same hospital and lived within yards of each other.
What I noticed from many was the freedom we had while growing up when we were all allowed to play in the local woods without fear of anything sinister happening.  What went wrong ?
 

[lookout]

Steve,perhaps you can explain,for instance,how teaching has changed over the years and why is it so tough today than it was in my day. What's gone wrong do you think ? 

[Steve_uk]

Steve,perhaps you can explain,for instance,how teaching has changed over the years and why is it so tough today than it was in my day. What's gone wrong do you think ?

Well it was going to pot when I joined. It's a very difficult thing to pinpoint but the steep rise in unemployment in the 1980s meant that qualifications were becoming evermore important in a society where many unskilled jobs were disappearing to the Far East. Pupils at school who had elder siblings on the dole were particularly hard to motivate, then we had the dumbing down of the curriculum with the new GCSE which gave prizes to everyone in many cases with very little reward, whilst those at the top got easily bored. The wages failed to keep up with expectations so it took Mum to go out to work and some children lost the linchpin of the family, especially with Sunday working, where there was no longer that special day a family could relax and spend together.

Add the widespread availability of drugs, which was not so prevalent in the 1960s, which some young people took to escape from the insecurity of their lives, the teachers strike under Keith Joseph and of course the abolition of corporal punishment in schools to be replaced by nothing, until Tony Blair made detention a legal sanction in 1997. What a pity he became embroiled in the Iraq war, another manifestation of violence and the "might is right" culture.

You can say what you like about Lookout's philosophy but at least people knew where they stood, and people did care in their own way even when corporal punishment was used, as it was on occasion on Jeremy Bamber. Now it's always someone else's problem, family breakdown is common and single parents who are often children themselves, the estates have become depositories of drugs and anti-social behaviour(just look at the problems dumped on Blackpool in bed and breakfasts), there's self-harm and suicides and under this climate is it any wonder education is no longer valued by a small but vocal minority too many of whom demand their rights but never face their responsibilities?

[Jane]

Yes,because I was born in an entirely different era when the law-makers acted upon crime as it happened. They were tough, and hard times financially,but------the world's BEST NHS and the BEST education. What went wrong ? 

People would do well to be told how this country used to be.

I went on a site the other night,just reading the different posts,and it happened to have been within the area where I was born with loads of people who I'd known 60 years ago and they were all of the same idea about the changes that have taken place over the years. Most of us had attended the same school,worked at the same hospital and lived within yards of each other.
What I noticed from many was the freedom we had while growing up when we were all allowed to play in the local woods without fear of anything sinister happening.  What went wrong ?

Well Lookout, I guess the first thing is that you got older. The second is that the world has moved on. You -and your generation- MAY mourn the passing of the 'good old days' but today's young don't know any different. They have no frame of reference. At some point, post WW2, the country learned it could have more and as a result, expectations became higher. We gave our children to believe that whatever they wanted was available. Our values changed. We gave our children different values because we wanted them to experience the sort of "plenty" that we hadn't. They don't know how much has been sacrificed. How much they've lost. As they've never had it, perhaps they don't miss it.

[lookout]

Well it was going to pot when I joined. It's a very difficult thing to pinpoint but the steep rise in unemployment in the 1980s meant that qualifications were becoming evermore important in a society where many unskilled jobs were disappearing to the Far East. Pupils at school who had elder siblings on the dole were particularly hard to motivate, then we had the dumbing down of the curriculum with the new GCSE which gave prizes to everyone in many cases with very little reward, whilst those at the top got easily bored. The wages failed to keep up with expectations so it took Mum to go out to work and some children lost the linchpin of the family, especially with Sunday working, where there was no longer that special day a family could relax and spend together.

Add the widespread availability of drugs, which was not so prevalent in the 1960s, which some young people took to escape from the insecurity of their lives, the teachers strike under Keith Joseph and of course the abolition of corporal punishment in schools to be replaced by nothing, until Tony Blair made detention a legal sanction in 1997. What a pity he became embroiled in the Iraq war, another manifestation of violence and the "might is right" culture.

You can say what you like about Lookout's philosophy but at least people knew where they stood, and people did care in their own way even when corporal punishment was used, as it was on occasion on Jeremy Bamber. Now it's always someone else's problem, family breakdown is common and single parents who are often children themselves, the estates have become depositories of drugs and anti-social behaviour(just look at the problems dumped on Blackpool in bed and breakfasts), there's self-harm and suicides and under this climate is it any wonder education is no longer valued by a small but vocal minority too many of whom demand their rights but never face their responsibilities?

Thankyou for that Steve,brilliantly put. What can I say,except that you're right in many ways.

The reason why I've ended up like a " Victor Meldrew " character.

[guest7363]

Yes,because I was born in an entirely different era when the law-makers acted upon crime as it happened. They were tough, and hard times financially,but------the world's BEST NHS and the BEST education. What went wrong ? 

People would do well to be told how this country used to be.

I went on a site the other night,just reading the different posts,and it happened to have been within the area where I was born with loads of people who I'd known 60 years ago and they were all of the same idea about the changes that have taken place over the years. Most of us had attended the same school,worked at the same hospital and lived within yards of each other.
What I noticed from many was the freedom we had while growing up when we were all allowed to play in the local woods without fear of anything sinister happening.  What went wrong ?

Too right Lookout, I tell my grandchildren that I would play all day in the local wood from 10/11 years of age.

[lookout]

Too right Lookout, I tell my grandchildren that I would play all day in the local wood from 10/11 years of age.

We as kids had no fear or worries and neither did our parents because they knew we'd all be home safe and sound,mucky,but safe. Even did fishing,but nobody drowned or got into trouble,we just all played happily together until nearly dusk,as you were never aware of the time.
The sad part is that todays youngsters don't and won't have such a glorious past to look back on.