Author Topic: Should child criminals be granted anonymity?  (Read 37121 times)

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Offline lookout

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Re: Should child criminals be granted anonymity?
« Reply #45 on: January 02, 2017, 02:00:PM »
So in your world, it's OK to hate killers and yet on the JB board you condemn those who believe that Jeremy is guilty simply for saying he's guilty. You admit you would want him to die in prison if guilty but condemn those who think he is guilty and refer to him in those terms. Bit hypocritical!

Jeremy can't be rehabilitated until he accepts responsibility for what he did and owns up to it.




Not hypocritical,just let's wait and see what these latest forensic tests throw up one way or the other.
Because I'm sure that he's innocent and by some quirk it ends up that he isn't,then I wouldn't lose sleep over his fate.
 This has been the oddest of cases in that 30 years have passed and there has remained to be doubt over his conviction,something which I can't be hypocritical about because where there's uncertainty you can't say yea or nay,except in my case it's a definite nay,and yours a yea,so I can't understand your remark about hypocrisy.
If there'd been no doubt whatsoever and ALL tests had reached that conclusion,then it would have been a yea from me.
Take Death Row in the States. How many have served 20,30,40 years only to have been found innocent ? The very mention of Death Row leads EVERYONE to believe that it's where those who committed heinous crimes should remain,but there are always that small % who didn't and if in doubt,investigate every avenue until you're satisfied that the outcome will be the right one before they're put to death.
I couldn't care less when the right ones ( offenders ) receive their comeuppance----------they won't murder again that's for sure,but for God's sake get it right the first time.  That applies to this country too.

Offline lookout

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Re: Should child criminals be granted anonymity?
« Reply #46 on: January 02, 2017, 02:04:PM »
If it was that JB WAS to have been found guilty,I'd look upon it the same as other murderers,STOP wasting MY money ( taxpayers ) on rehabilitating something that's impossible to mold into a human being. Once a killer always a killer because their brains are different to ours.
« Last Edit: January 02, 2017, 02:05:PM by lookout »

Offline Stephanie

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Re: Should child criminals be granted anonymity?
« Reply #47 on: January 02, 2017, 02:05:PM »

Steph, it really doesn't surprise me that information about prisoners serving sentences is withheld from the general public. There are VERY few (of us) who have the need/right to know.

But of course it would help, especially in cases like this, if we knew.

And of course the same can be said about disclosure, as I posted earlier. It's the responsibility of organisations like the CCRC, the CPS etc to protect the victims first and foremost. There's no reason a serving prisoner should be given access to certain documents/photographs. Though I argued against this a few years back.

I now recognise that in cases like Bambers (And indeed SH) especially where it is stated, neither of them have mental health issues or personality disorders, they would have been advised they could have requested disclosure if they believed said disclosure would support their claims, pre-trial.

The reasons for not requesting the documents at the time are obvious. It wasn't through naivety or not knowing what they were charged with and not understanding the crime etc. It was because they knew they were guilty.

 
“The only people who are mad at you for telling the truth are those people who are living a lie. Keep telling the truth"

Offline Stephanie

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Re: Should child criminals be granted anonymity?
« Reply #48 on: January 02, 2017, 02:11:PM »



Not hypocritical,just let's wait and see what these latest forensic tests throw up one way or the other.
Because I'm sure that he's innocent and by some quirk it ends up that he isn't,then I wouldn't lose sleep over his fate.
 This has been the oddest of cases in that 30 years have passed and there has remained to be doubt over his conviction,something which I can't be hypocritical about because where there's uncertainty you can't say yea or nay,except in my case it's a definite nay,and yours a yea,so I can't understand your remark about hypocrisy.

Until the CT get the basic facts right Lookout, they won't be taken seriously. Or they will be taken seriously only for the forensic expert to do some research themselves and learn the CT have given them mis-information.

And lets not forget the CCRC and Courts already have the facts so they will, as Caroline stated, most probably just roll their eyes...
“The only people who are mad at you for telling the truth are those people who are living a lie. Keep telling the truth"

Offline petey

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Re: Should child criminals be granted anonymity?
« Reply #49 on: January 02, 2017, 02:22:PM »
If it was that JB WAS to have been found guilty,I'd look upon it the same as other murderers,STOP wasting MY money ( taxpayers ) on rehabilitating something that's impossible to mold into a human being. Once a killer always a killer because their brains are different to ours.

Quite an unbelievable statement.

Surely, surely you don't believe what you have just posted?! If you do I suggest you re-educate yourself.

Do you honestly honestly think that every single person who has ever killed anybody has 'a different brain' ?!

In your world do pre- sentencing reports, contrition, admissions of guilt and attempts at rehabilitation etc etc mean absolutely nothing to you as 'once a killer, always a killer'

Out of interest given that RT and JV were convicted at the age of 11 what do you think their punishment should have been? Should they still remain in prison as once a killer, always a killer? Would you have sentenced them to death? Or what do you think should have been their punishment?

Offline lookout

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Re: Should child criminals be granted anonymity?
« Reply #50 on: January 02, 2017, 02:56:PM »
Quite an unbelievable statement.

Surely, surely you don't believe what you have just posted?! If you do I suggest you re-educate yourself.

Do you honestly honestly think that every single person who has ever killed anybody has 'a different brain' ?!

In your world do pre- sentencing reports, contrition, admissions of guilt and attempts at rehabilitation etc etc mean absolutely nothing to you as 'once a killer, always a killer'

Out of interest given that RT and JV were convicted at the age of 11 what do you think their punishment should have been? Should they still remain in prison as once a killer, always a killer? Would you have sentenced them to death? Or what do you think should have been their punishment?




One of those ghastly characters has offended more than once since release which proves my point. I don't doubt that he hasn't been the only one who's re-offended.
I'd have left them to rot,yes.

 Just because my views differ from yours,there's no need for insults ! I suppose you're to be pitied,knowing no different than to insult and so long as they're fired at me it's alright. Go on,be a big boy and argue with your own sort and not a 77 year old !! Kindly sod off.


Offline petey

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Re: Should child criminals be granted anonymity?
« Reply #51 on: January 02, 2017, 03:01:PM »



One of those ghastly characters has offended more than once since release which proves my point. I don't doubt that he hasn't been the only one who's re-offended.
I'd have left them to rot,yes.

 Just because my views differ from yours,there's no need for insults ! I suppose you're to be pitied,knowing no different than to insult and so long as they're fired at me it's alright. Go on,be a big boy and argue with your own sort and not a 77 year old !! Kindly sod off.

I'm merely staggered at your viewpoint. Even more so when you quite openly state that an offender who murdered someone at the age of 10, should still remain in prison some 23 years after they were sentenced.

Remember they were still children themselves at age 10 when they committed the crime. Yet that's irrelevant to you and you would allow them to 'rot in jail'. Quite unbelievable and I pity your viewpoint.

Offline Jane

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Re: Should child criminals be granted anonymity?
« Reply #52 on: January 02, 2017, 03:12:PM »



One of those ghastly characters has offended more than once since release which proves my point. I don't doubt that he hasn't been the only one who's re-offended.
I'd have left them to rot,yes.

 Just because my views differ from yours,there's no need for insults ! I suppose you're to be pitied,knowing no different than to insult and so long as they're fired at me it's alright. Go on,be a big boy and argue with your own sort and not a 77 year old !! Kindly sod off.

CHILDREN!!!!!!! You'd have left then to rot!!! Who bought -DRAGGED- those children up, Lookout? I agree that what they did was horrendous. I hold my hands up and freely admit to not knowing what is the right answer but I'm sure that your lack of compassion is almost as bad.................and YOU'RE old enough to know better.

Offline lookout

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Re: Should child criminals be granted anonymity?
« Reply #53 on: January 02, 2017, 03:28:PM »
CHILDREN!!!!!!! You'd have left then to rot!!! Who bought -DRAGGED- those children up, Lookout? I agree that what they did was horrendous. I hold my hands up and freely admit to not knowing what is the right answer but I'm sure that your lack of compassion is almost as bad.................and YOU'RE old enough to know better.




Oh,please ! Get off your high horse Jane. I suppose I have to thank the Lord that I didn't bear such a child,for as you must remember the time when I said I'd have turned my back on such a monster and duly disowned it.
I show NO compassion for/towards those who hurt/harm others. Why should I just to please you and the other do-gooders ?

Offline Jane

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Re: Should child criminals be granted anonymity?
« Reply #54 on: January 02, 2017, 04:10:PM »



Oh,please ! Get off your high horse Jane. I suppose I have to thank the Lord that I didn't bear such a child,for as you must remember the time when I said I'd have turned my back on such a monster and duly disowned it.
I show NO compassion for/towards those who hurt/harm others. Why should I just to please you and the other do-gooders ?

I know how it is to be bought up by someone for whom life was either black or white/one strike and you're out. It wasn't just about those who hurt/harmed others, which comes in many guises and takes forms according to how the individual sees it as being -although arguably she COULD have denied herself compassion for how she treated me except, that rather like you, she believed she was right- her black/white belief carried on through every aspect of her life and everyone -especially me- who disagreed with her was wrong. If I turned out to be a "do-gooder" it was as a direct response to the spitefulness I witnessed emanating from her. I think your thanking God, for not bearing a child from whom you could so readily switch off feelings as if they were light switches, might be a plan. For most, the pain would be intolerable. Some would simply take comfort from the knowledge that they believe themselves to be right and therefore justified.

Offline lookout

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Re: Should child criminals be granted anonymity?
« Reply #55 on: January 02, 2017, 05:10:PM »
I know how it is to be bought up by someone for whom life was either black or white/one strike and you're out. It wasn't just about those who hurt/harmed others, which comes in many guises and takes forms according to how the individual sees it as being -although arguably she COULD have denied herself compassion for how she treated me except, that rather like you, she believed she was right- her black/white belief carried on through every aspect of her life and everyone -especially me- who disagreed with her was wrong. If I turned out to be a "do-gooder" it was as a direct response to the spitefulness I witnessed emanating from her. I think your thanking God, for not bearing a child from whom you could so readily switch off feelings as if they were light switches, might be a plan. For most, the pain would be intolerable. Some would simply take comfort from the knowledge that they believe themselves to be right and therefore justified.





So how would you deal with a son who'd murdered or bashed some old person beyond recognition ?

Offline lookout

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Re: Should child criminals be granted anonymity?
« Reply #56 on: January 02, 2017, 05:20:PM »
Violence toward vulnerable,defenceless people/children is totally unacceptable and should be dealt with harshly,not offered all sorts of treatments,etc.
I've witnessed heartbreaking scenes of both and this is why I take on this attitude towards the monsters, who immediately forfeit their " rights " by committing such crimes.

You probably just see pictures in the media or on television,perhaps if you saw the real thing/horrendous damage physically and mentally,you MIGHT just change your mind,but only might,judging by your attitude. 

Offline petey

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Re: Should child criminals be granted anonymity?
« Reply #57 on: January 02, 2017, 05:23:PM »




So how would you deal with a son who'd murdered or bashed some old person beyond recognition ?

They should be punished by the criminal courts by a mandatory life sentence. Then depending on the particular crime they would be eligible for parole after x years.

I would then hope that a) they showed remorse for their actions and b) they were offered the support and rehabilitation they needed, within the penal system.

One thing I certainly would not do is completely abandon them or turn my back on a family member. I would be appalled by their actions and my sympathies of course would lie with the victims. But I would be as supportive as I could and never turn my back on a family member. I would know that they needed help so hope that they could start the long process of rehabilitation and both come to terms with and accept the crime they had committed.

Offline petey

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Re: Should child criminals be granted anonymity?
« Reply #58 on: January 02, 2017, 05:30:PM »
Violence toward vulnerable,defenceless people/children is totally unacceptable and should be dealt with harshly,not offered all sorts of treatments,etc.
I've witnessed heartbreaking scenes of both and this is why I take on this attitude towards the monsters, who immediately forfeit their " rights " by committing such crimes.

You probably just see pictures in the media or on television,perhaps if you saw the real thing/horrendous damage physically and mentally,you MIGHT just change your mind,but only might,judging by your attitude.

Your attitude belongs in medieval times. Try to remember that we live in the 21st century now and things have moved on.

Offline Jane

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Re: Should child criminals be granted anonymity?
« Reply #59 on: January 02, 2017, 05:33:PM »




So how would you deal with a son who'd murdered or bashed some old person beyond recognition ?

Lookout, as I've already admitted to not knowing what the answer is, the same applies to this situation. I would FEEL heartbroken/ashamed/disappointed. I would wonder where I might have gone wrong. I would HATE the crime..................but never, in a million years can I imagine hating my child OR totally turning my back on him.