Author Topic: Should child criminals be granted anonymity?  (Read 2854 times)

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Offline Stephanie

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Re: Should child criminals be granted anonymity?
« Reply #30 on: January 01, 2017, 03:17:PM »
If there wasno 'life means life' tarrif, would Bamber have realeased after 25 years ? He was still protesting his innocence.

Prior to Jeremy's whole life tariff, he would have known that whilst he remained in denial his chances of parole would have been slim.

Though SH managed to get to open conditions without having admitted guilt and was on target in terms of sentence planning/parole board. Until his lack of self control/poor coping skills were recognised in 2013.

I remain convinced the prison authorities know things about Jeremy Bamber that aren't in the public domain. Are the prison also aware of Jeremy's lack of self control/poor coping skills and is it because of factors like this that he is deemed so dangerous?

« Last Edit: January 01, 2017, 03:35:PM by Stephanie »
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Offline petey

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Re: Should child criminals be granted anonymity?
« Reply #31 on: January 01, 2017, 03:17:PM »
Getting back to my previous question.Would you rehabilitate JB IF he was a murderer,though in your eyes he is,so the question has more relevance.

If you read my replies I answered this in post 20!

Offline Adam

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Re: Should child criminals be granted anonymity?
« Reply #32 on: January 01, 2017, 03:23:PM »
Prior to Jeremy's whole life tariff, he would have known that whilst he remained in denial his chances of parole would have been slim.

Though SH managed to get to open conditions without having admitted guilt and was on target in terms of the parole board. Until his poor self control was recognised in 2013.

I remain convinced the prison authorities know things about Jeremy Bamber that aren't in the public domain. Are the prison also aware of Jeremy's poor self control and is it because of factors like this that he is deemed so dangerous?

Mark Chapman was given 20 years in 1980. He has been refused parole several times since 2000. Although he has never denied his guilt and shown some remorse. People say he would be in danger in society, but couldn't he be given a new identity ?

If the 'Life means life' tarriff had not come in, I suspect Bamber would have fought for release until a couple of years before a possible parole. Then admitted his guilt as he knew it was so only way he would get released.
'Only I know what really happened that night'.

Offline Stephanie

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Re: Should child criminals be granted anonymity?
« Reply #33 on: January 01, 2017, 03:27:PM »
Mark Chapman was given 20 years in 1980. He has been refused parole several times since 2000. Although he has never denied his guilt and shown some remorse. People say he would be in danger in society, but couldn't he be given a new identity ?

If the 'Life means life' tarriff had not come in, I suspect Bamber would have fought for release until a couple of years before a possible parole. Then admitted his guilt as he knew it was so only way he would get released.

I've edited my post above Adam as I'd made a mistake.

By having a new identity you mean he would be less like to be at risk from others. What about his risk to others and himself?
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Offline Adam

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Re: Should child criminals be granted anonymity?
« Reply #34 on: January 01, 2017, 03:32:PM »
I've edited my post above Adam as I'd made a mistake.

By having a new identity you mean he would be less like to be at risk from others. What about his risk to others and himself?

It's up to the parole board if they believe Chapman would be a danger to other people. If released.

The impression I get is he isn't being released because the public would come after him. In that case, a new identity would solve that.
'Only I know what really happened that night'.

Offline Stephanie

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Re: Should child criminals be granted anonymity?
« Reply #35 on: January 01, 2017, 03:37:PM »
It's up to the parole board if they believe Chapman would be a danger to other people. If released.

The impression I get is he isn't being released because the public would come after him. In that case, a new identity would solve that.

Again, it's quite possible the prison have knowledge of his personality that deem him a risk to the public, as opposed to the public being a risk to him.

Some personality disordered individuals crave attention. Therefore maybe Chapman, even if given a new identity, would blow it too soon because of his need for attention from others? Who knows Adam?

I've recogised many disordered individuals appear to lack self control, therefore at some point their true colours come to the fore.
« Last Edit: January 01, 2017, 03:46:PM by Stephanie »
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Online lookout

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Re: Should child criminals be granted anonymity?
« Reply #36 on: January 01, 2017, 04:33:PM »
If you read your previous post you quoted that all murderers are the same. I was merely pointing out what a ridiculous assertion that was.

Are you aware that euthanasia in the UK is illegal and is classed as murder or manslaughter?

For you then to argue that abused women are quite within their rights to kill their partner is quite staggering.

What kind of society do you think we live in?!!!!!!





A society where those who'd intended murder are released after serving half or less of their sentence only to commit crime again !!!!!!!

I did NOT say that it was the right of an abused woman to kill her partner------read it again!!

Because the relatives have got it into their heads that JB is the killer,THEY won't ever hear of his release. THEY were responsible for giving him the " death sentence " that he's got by disallowing a lower category in his sentencing. THESE people think the same as I do so far as punishment for murder goes,so what are your thoughts on that ?? No rehabilitation,but a life-time spent behind bars until death.
 Or does that only apply to me where you think I'm heartless and all the rest of it ?

Offline Stephanie

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Re: Should child criminals be granted anonymity?
« Reply #37 on: January 01, 2017, 04:36:PM »
Because the relatives have got it into their heads that JB is the killer,

They aren't alone Lookout!

Even Jeremy's birth father has publicly stated he believes him to be a psychopath.
“The only people who are mad at you for telling the truth are those people who are living a lie. Keep telling the truth"

Offline petey

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Re: Should child criminals be granted anonymity?
« Reply #38 on: January 01, 2017, 04:57:PM »




A society where those who'd intended murder are released after serving half or less of their sentence only to commit crime again !!!!!!!

I did NOT say that it was the right of an abused woman to kill her partner------read it again!!

Because the relatives have got it into their heads that JB is the killer,THEY won't ever hear of his release. THEY were responsible for giving him the " death sentence " that he's got by disallowing a lower category in his sentencing. THESE people think the same as I do so far as punishment for murder goes,so what are your thoughts on that ?? No rehabilitation,but a life-time spent behind bars until death.
 Or does that only apply to me where you think I'm heartless and all the rest of it ?

Well you said if they did then its a forgivable act, which shouldn't be punished by imprisonment and the right person would have died!  That is akin to giving an abused partner carte blanche to behave as they wish as their behaviour is justified in your eyes. Still a very worrying statement in modern society.

I'm sure you are aware that jb was convicted in a criminal court, had his appeal rejected by the Court of Appeal, submissions rejected by CCRC and had his sentence set by a judge and whole life tariff set by the Home Secretary. NOT the relatives!

As I've repeatedly said, I believe all offenders should be offered the chance of rehabilitation, although obviously this will not work for some and some do not want to be rehabilitated.
« Last Edit: January 01, 2017, 04:59:PM by petey »

Offline Caroline

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Re: Should child criminals be granted anonymity?
« Reply #39 on: January 01, 2017, 07:54:PM »
What I fail to understand is the fact that you would side with those individuals who'd actually bother with anyone who'd committed such a heinous crime,as to " help " them rehabilitate ? You,and others like you leave me speechless and offended !

Just say for instance that Jeremy had murdered the twins. Would you still feel the same,or would you say what others,including myself if I thought he was guilty, that the man should be left to die in prison ?
I've never heard you mention JB and rehabilitation in the same sentence ? Would it apply to him in your world ?

I don't agree with your way of thinking because I'm on the side of the victims at all times,never the criminals.

So in your world, it's OK to hate killers and yet on the JB board you condemn those who believe that Jeremy is guilty simply for saying he's guilty. You admit you would want him to die in prison if guilty but condemn those who think he is guilty and refer to him in those terms. Bit hypocritical!

Jeremy can't be rehabilitated until he accepts responsibility for what he did and owns up to it.
100% GUILTY - No doubts!

Offline Steve_uk

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Re: Should child criminals be granted anonymity?
« Reply #40 on: January 01, 2017, 08:01:PM »
Well you said if they did then its a forgivable act, which shouldn't be punished by imprisonment and the right person would have died!  That is akin to giving an abused partner carte blanche to behave as they wish as their behaviour is justified in your eyes. Still a very worrying statement in modern society.

I'm sure you are aware that jb was convicted in a criminal court, had his appeal rejected by the Court of Appeal, submissions rejected by CCRC and had his sentence set by a judge and whole life tariff set by the Home Secretary. NOT the relatives!

As I've repeatedly said, I believe all offenders should be offered the chance of rehabilitation, although obviously this will not work for some and some do not want to be rehabilitated.
But there wasn't any consistency in their approach Petey and whilst agreeing with the thrust of your argument that on balance children should be marked out as children and given a further chance I can't help but feel that those politicians who suspended and then finally abolished the death penalty in 1965 had a short-term agenda which was unable to acknowledge the problems which would arise in a case such as Bamber, where this individual is stuck behind bars in perpetuity without any thought for the issues which might arise therefrom.

Offline Steve_uk

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Re: Should child criminals be granted anonymity?
« Reply #41 on: January 01, 2017, 08:02:PM »
They aren't alone Lookout!

Even Jeremy's birth father has publicly stated he believes him to be a psychopath.
How could he possibly know?

Offline Stephanie

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Re: Should child criminals be granted anonymity?
« Reply #42 on: January 01, 2017, 08:04:PM »
How could he possibly know?

Maybe it ran in the family?
“The only people who are mad at you for telling the truth are those people who are living a lie. Keep telling the truth"

Offline Jane J

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Re: Should child criminals be granted anonymity?
« Reply #43 on: January 02, 2017, 01:27:PM »
I wouldn't be thinking about anything but retaliation,after the feeling of numbness had worn off. It's human nature for God's sake and 99.9% would think of going after the killer no matter who.
 I can't speak for,nor judge those whose thoughts and ideas go towards rehabilitating murderers,the same as I should neither be judged for my way of thinking as we're all allowed free speech,etc.

I would give the thugs the sentence they deserve along with a regime that was practised in Borstal---then tag them for the rest of their lives so that people knew they were murderers. I would make living as uncomfortable as it could be and because of our " nanny state " there'd always be some mug who'd be willing to give them a chance.Would you ? Would you like someone like that living next door or in the same road as you ?
It's alright paying lip service about what you'd do,but when push comes to shove you wouldn't personally help them. How many murderers do you know who've made something of their lives and given back to the country what they took out ?
At least I'm truthful and don't have to dish out excuses like retribution or rehabilitation.

I don't much care for your views either !

It seems to me that there might be a lot of internalized anger behind those words and all I can say to that is God help us all if ever a political party comes to power who supports your mindset. It would spread outwards and downwards like a cancer. Chaos, anarchy and disorder would rule. If you believe there's family breakdown now, under your new order it would be a damn sight worse. Neighbours would be spying/telling tales on neighbours to cover up their own wrong doings. Whole communities would break down. There'd be civil war. Chances are it would end up with those being "taken out" who promoted the idea of such unspeakable mass barbarity. Puts me in mind of small town parochial America and the Ku Klux Clan or Hitler's thugs.
« Last Edit: January 02, 2017, 01:31:PM by Jane J »

Offline Jane J

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Re: Should child criminals be granted anonymity?
« Reply #44 on: January 02, 2017, 01:40:PM »
Prior to Jeremy's whole life tariff, he would have known that whilst he remained in denial his chances of parole would have been slim.

Though SH managed to get to open conditions without having admitted guilt and was on target in terms of sentence planning/parole board. Until his lack of self control/poor coping skills were recognised in 2013.

I remain convinced the prison authorities know things about Jeremy Bamber that aren't in the public domain. Are the prison also aware of Jeremy's lack of self control/poor coping skills and is it because of factors like this that he is deemed so dangerous?


Steph, it really doesn't surprise me that information about prisoners serving sentences is withheld from the general public. There are VERY few (of us) who have the need/right to know.