Author Topic: Should child criminals be granted anonymity?  (Read 2644 times)

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Offline Stephanie

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Re: Should child criminals be granted anonymity?
« Reply #15 on: December 31, 2016, 05:14:PM »
I wouldn't be thinking about anything but retaliation,after the feeling of numbness had worn off. It's human nature for God's sake and 99.9% would think of going after the killer no matter who.

So then what makes you any different to the killer?
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Offline lookout

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Re: Should child criminals be granted anonymity?
« Reply #16 on: December 31, 2016, 05:34:PM »
So then what makes you any different to the killer?





The fact that I was right and the killer was wrong ! Mercy killings are forgiven,aren't they ?
What do you think I'd do,shake its hand ?

Offline petey

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Re: Should child criminals be granted anonymity?
« Reply #17 on: January 01, 2017, 03:25:AM »
I wouldn't be thinking about anything but retaliation,after the feeling of numbness had worn off. It's human nature for God's sake and 99.9% would think of going after the killer no matter who.
 I can't speak for,nor judge those whose thoughts and ideas go towards rehabilitating murderers,the same as I should neither be judged for my way of thinking as we're all allowed free speech,etc.

I would give the thugs the sentence they deserve along with a regime that was practised in Borstal---then tag them for the rest of their lives so that people knew they were murderers. I would make living as uncomfortable as it could be and because of our " nanny state " there'd always be some mug who'd be willing to give them a chance.Would you ? Would you like someone like that living next door or in the same road as you ?
It's alright paying lip service about what you'd do,but when push comes to shove you wouldn't personally help them. How many murderers do you know who've made something of their lives and given back to the country what they took out ?
At least I'm truthful and don't have to dish out excuses like retribution or rehabilitation.

I don't much care for your views either !

By dishing out excuses like retribution and rehabilitation I'm not sure what u mean?
Do u think offenders should face retribution? Should they be offered rehabilitation!

How many murderers have made something of their lives?! Do you think they should be given the opportunity to make something of their lives? Or in your world are they destined for the rubbish heap?

You think 99.9% would go after the killers?! I'm not sure u realise how offensive this comment is.

For arguments sake just imagine Robert Thompson has made massive strides forward accepting his guilt and coming to terms with the pain and suffering he has caused to so many people. How would u feel about this?
Would u be happy? Or disappointing noted that 'another murderer got away with it' x

Offline lookout

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Re: Should child criminals be granted anonymity?
« Reply #18 on: January 01, 2017, 01:35:PM »
 What I fail to understand is the fact that you would side with those individuals who'd actually bother with anyone who'd committed such a heinous crime,as to " help " them rehabilitate ? You,and others like you leave me speechless and offended !

Just say for instance that Jeremy had murdered the twins. Would you still feel the same,or would you say what others,including myself if I thought he was guilty, that the man should be left to die in prison ?
I've never heard you mention JB and rehabilitation in the same sentence ? Would it apply to him in your world ?

I don't agree with your way of thinking because I'm on the side of the victims at all times,never the criminals.

Offline Stephanie

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Re: Should child criminals be granted anonymity?
« Reply #19 on: January 01, 2017, 01:49:PM »
What I fail to understand is the fact that you would side with those individuals who'd actually bother with anyone who'd committed such a heinous crime,as to " help " them rehabilitate ? You,and others like you leave me speechless and offended !

Just say for instance that Jeremy had murdered the twins. Would you still feel the same,or would you say what others,including myself if I thought he was guilty, that the man should be left to die in prison ?
I've never heard you mention JB and rehabilitation in the same sentence ? Would it apply to him in your world ?

I don't agree with your way of thinking because I'm on the side of the victims at all times,never the criminals.

http://jeremybamberforum.co.uk/index.php/topic,8025.msg380808.html#msg380808

I made the mistake of doing SH's bidding for him. I wrongly believed he was innocent, ergo others were responsible.

I am hoping others will learn from my mistakes and not do as I once did.

By blaming Jeremy Bamber's relatives, Sheila, the police etc, you are merely repeating my mistakes. You are doing the bidding for a man who should be doing his own bidding.

If Jeremy Bamber is innocent and indeed a decent guy he would not be putting others in the firing line, as SH once did to me and many others.

There are some prisoners, like Jeremy Bamber, deemed far too dangerous to ever be allowed their liberty.
« Last Edit: January 01, 2017, 01:53:PM by Stephanie »
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Offline petey

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Re: Should child criminals be granted anonymity?
« Reply #20 on: January 01, 2017, 02:08:PM »
What I fail to understand is the fact that you would side with those individuals who'd actually bother with anyone who'd committed such a heinous crime,as to " help " them rehabilitate ? You,and others like you leave me speechless and offended !

Just say for instance that Jeremy had murdered the twins. Would you still feel the same,or would you say what others,including myself if I thought he was guilty, that the man should be left to die in prison ?
I've never heard you mention JB and rehabilitation in the same sentence ? Would it apply to him in your world ?

I don't agree with your way of thinking because I'm on the side of the victims at all times,never the criminals.

It's not about taking sides! Of course my sympathies all lie with the victims. However we live in the 21st century so I believe that offenders should have the opportunity to undergo rehabilitation.

You appear to have a total misconception that rehabilitation means an easy life or they are treated more favourably or have in effect got away with it. This could not be further from the truth.

Given that jb probably murdered 5 people, then yes from his conviction I do think he should have had the opportunity to attempt some form of rehabilitation. However, the problem he faces is it is very very difficult to rehabilitate yourself when you are in denial over the crime you have committed. One of the early stages is an acceptance of guilt and an acceptance of ones actions. If jb had gone through that process from the start then who knows whether he could have been rehabilitated to some degree.

My PhD thesis is actually on whether it is morally and legally acceptable for prisoners to face whole life tariffs like jb has had imposed. On this subject I personally think that whole life tariffs are not morally justifiable and I would argue they are not legally justifiable, but that's a whole new argument!

Offline lookout

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Re: Should child criminals be granted anonymity?
« Reply #21 on: January 01, 2017, 02:11:PM »
A contradiction of petey's post where he'd said he'd rehabilitate such criminals.
Make up your minds. You either leave them to die or rehabilitate them,which is it to be,as ALL murderers are the same. Why rehabilitate some and not others ?

Offline petey

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Re: Should child criminals be granted anonymity?
« Reply #22 on: January 01, 2017, 02:21:PM »
A contradiction of petey's post where he'd said he'd rehabilitate such criminals.
Make up your minds. You either leave them to die or rehabilitate them,which is it to be,as ALL murderers are the same. Why rehabilitate some and not others ?

Not too sure where you think I have contradicted myself.

Do you honestly think that all murderers are the same?! For example would you view someone who helped to kill an elderly relative in terrible pain who wanted to die (this is still murder if you kill them) in the same way as Ian Huntley and Robert Napper?

Offline Stephanie

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Re: Should child criminals be granted anonymity?
« Reply #23 on: January 01, 2017, 02:34:PM »
My PhD thesis is actually on whether it is morally and legally acceptable for prisoners to face whole life tariffs like jb has had imposed. On this subject I personally think that whole life tariffs are not morally justifiable and I would argue they are not legally justifiable, but that's a whole new argument!

That's interesting Petey. My thoughts and ideas regarding this change over time. When SH confessed it was quite apparent to me that any form of rehabilitation was possibly going to take him far longer than those prisoners who had not publicly maintained innocence. Though my thoughts at the time were based on someone who wasn't personality disordered.

I believe UK prisons in general are inadequate when it comes to rehabilitation and restorative justice; especially when compared to prisons abroad. Of course staff shortages, cut backs on funding also play a part.

It's suggested that psychopathy wains in/around mid life but I do not believe there has been enough research on the subject matter. And when considering someone like Bamber in relation to release, when, if ever, would his manipulative and deceptiveness decrease? How could we be certain he was no longer a danger to society in general?

I would argue that UK prisons need to come up to the same standard, or indeed better, than the standard set out here with regards mental health & PD's, before any such argument takes place regarding whole life tariffs.
“The only people who are mad at you for telling the truth are those people who are living a lie. Keep telling the truth"

Offline petey

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Re: Should child criminals be granted anonymity?
« Reply #24 on: January 01, 2017, 02:48:PM »
That's interesting Petey. My thoughts and ideas regarding this change over time. When SH confessed it was quite apparent to me that any form of rehabilitation was possibly going to take him far longer than those prisoners who had not publicly maintained innocence. Though my thoughts at the time were based on someone who wasn't personality disordered.

I believe UK prisons in general are inadequate when it comes to rehabilitation and restorative justice; especially when compared to prisons abroad. Of course staff shortages, cut backs on funding also play a part.

It's suggested that psychopathy wains in/around mid life but I do not believe there has been enough research on the subject matter. And when considering someone like Bamber in relation to release, when, if ever, would his manipulative and deceptiveness decrease? How could we be certain he was no longer a danger to society in general?

I would argue that UK prisons need to come up to the same standard, or indeed better, than the standard set out here with regards mental health & PD's, before any such argument takes place regarding whole life tariffs.

I would argue that whole life tariffs are not morally or legally justifiable. However, say jb had life sentence with minimum 25 years. This does not mean he will be released after 25 years. He would still have to show the parole board he is fully rehabilitated and safe to return to society after 25 years. In some offenders cases there is no way they will ever meet this threshold so they are in effect prisoners for life. The key thing for me is that every prisoner must have the opportunity. To take that away is a step back towards capital punishment.

Offline Adam

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Re: Should child criminals be granted anonymity?
« Reply #25 on: January 01, 2017, 03:02:PM »
I would argue that whole life tariffs are not morally or legally justifiable. However, say jb had life sentence with minimum 25 years. This does not mean he will be released after 25 years. He would still have to show the parole board he is fully rehabilitated and safe to return to society after 25 years. In some offenders cases there is no way they will ever meet this threshold so they are in effect prisoners for life. The key thing for me is that every prisoner must have the opportunity. To take that away is a step back towards capital punishment.

If there was no 'life means life' tarrif, would Bamber have realeased after 25 years ? He was still protesting his innocence.
« Last Edit: January 01, 2017, 03:10:PM by Adam »
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Offline lookout

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Re: Should child criminals be granted anonymity?
« Reply #26 on: January 01, 2017, 03:06:PM »
Not too sure where you think I have contradicted myself.

Do you honestly think that all murderers are the same?! For example would you view someone who helped to kill an elderly relative in terrible pain who wanted to die (this is still murder if you kill them) in the same way as Ian Huntley and Robert Napper?



Euthanasia is NOT murder.

IF a mercy killing in a case where great suffering is witnessed and that which can be proved that it WAS,i.e. with a doctor/ health professional,along with the history of that patient, as witnesses,then to me that is NOT classed as murder,but an ethical and humane way of ending the suffering.
Morphine medication is increased in most cases.
Even those who are looking after loved ones at home,without a doctor being present,and who end the life of the one they're looking after should never be classed as a murderer where there is just cause that a person's quality of life was impeded in such a way as to never regain their health again.

Again,we have the other type of killing where a physically and mentally abused woman over time,snaps and kills her abuser. That again is a forgivable act and one which shouldn't carry a prison sentence because the abuser was at fault. This kind of abuse,to me,is horrendous as the woman has already suffered her sentence by being housebound because of her image. The right one died in my eyes.

I would NEVER put these poor souls in the same category as those who you've named.That was a ridiculous comparison of which surprises me but gives me an insight into your character.

Offline Stephanie

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Re: Should child criminals be granted anonymity?
« Reply #27 on: January 01, 2017, 03:08:PM »
I would argue that whole life tariffs are not morally or legally justifiable. However, say jb had life sentence with minimum 25 years. This does not mean he will be released after 25 years. He would still have to show the parole board he is fully rehabilitated and safe to return to society after 25 years. In some offenders cases there is no way they will ever meet this threshold so they are in effect prisoners for life. The key thing for me is that every prisoner must have the opportunity. To take that away is a step back towards capital punishment.

I do agree with you to a point. However, my concerns remain with regards the inadequacies I've witnessed, for example with regards prison staff in general and their lack of understanding in relation to each prisoner in their care.

Before any argument takes place, personally I think there are more important issues that need addressing within our prisons. Plus whole life tariffs in this country are not high.

And whilst we have whole life tariffs could these not be seen to be a deterrent for other prisoners wishing to take the same path Jeremy Bamber has chosen?
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Offline lookout

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Re: Should child criminals be granted anonymity?
« Reply #28 on: January 01, 2017, 03:10:PM »
Getting back to my previous question.Would you rehabilitate JB IF he was a murderer,though in your eyes he is,so the question has more relevance.

Offline petey

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Re: Should child criminals be granted anonymity?
« Reply #29 on: January 01, 2017, 03:15:PM »


Euthanasia is NOT murder.

IF a mercy killing in a case where great suffering is witnessed and that which can be proved that it WAS,i.e. with a doctor/ health professional,along with the history of that patient, as witnesses,then to me that is NOT classed as murder,but an ethical and humane way of ending the suffering.
Morphine medication is increased in most cases.
Even those who are looking after loved ones at home,without a doctor being present,and who end the life of the one they're looking after should never be classed as a murderer where there is just cause that a person's quality of life was impeded in such a way as to never regain their health again.

Again,we have the other type of killing where a physically and mentally abused woman over time,snaps and kills her abuser. That again is a forgivable act and one which shouldn't carry a prison sentence because the abuser was at fault. This kind of abuse,to me,is horrendous as the woman has already suffered her sentence by being housebound because of her image. The right one died in my eyes.

I would NEVER put these poor souls in the same category as those who you've named.That was a ridiculous comparison of which surprises me but gives me an insight into your character.

If you read your previous post you quoted that all murderers are the same. I was merely pointing out what a ridiculous assertion that was.

Are you aware that euthanasia in the UK is illegal and is classed as murder or manslaughter?

For you then to argue that abused women are quite within their rights to kill their partner is quite staggering.

What kind of society do you think we live in?!!!!!!