Author Topic: Just joined you  (Read 2444 times)

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Offline justice

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Re: Just joined you
« Reply #15 on: November 05, 2016, 06:45:PM »
1 you will find this has been answered numerous times, in a nutshell they sent for armed police because Bamber set the scene that his sister was a nutter and armed, add the fact he said he received a call from his father your sister has gone berserk and she's got the gun.


What we are being expected to believe - is that Jeremy Bamber's brief telephone conversation with PC West, was in itself, sufficient for police to order Force Support Units to be stood down and return to HQ in order to collect weapons.  There is no 'scene setting' - (other than the initial telephone call from JB to police).
Wasnt it Bews who sent for armed assistance?
http://jeremybamberforum.co.uk/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=3132.0;attach=38126

Because of this conversation?
http://jeremybamberforum.co.uk/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=3132.0;attach=38125
Envy kills,” the Pope said. “It does not tolerate others having something that I do not have. And it always suffers, because the heart of an envious or jealous person suffers. It is a suffering heart!” It is a suffering that desires “the death of others

Offline Roch

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Re: Just joined you
« Reply #16 on: November 05, 2016, 11:11:PM »
Wasnt it Bews who sent for armed assistance?
http://jeremybamberforum.co.uk/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=3132.0;attach=38126

Because of this conversation?
http://jeremybamberforum.co.uk/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=3132.0;attach=38125

Both of those links are coming up as the same document - is that correct or am I missing something?
"She was on a mission - a date with death, in league with the devil..." 

(Mike Tesko 2012)

Offline justice

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Re: Just joined you
« Reply #17 on: November 05, 2016, 11:23:PM »
Both of those links are coming up as the same document - is that correct or am I missing something?
Hi Roch, strange they are not the same on my iPad?  You can see that they are different numbers 38126. 38125?
Envy kills,” the Pope said. “It does not tolerate others having something that I do not have. And it always suffers, because the heart of an envious or jealous person suffers. It is a suffering heart!” It is a suffering that desires “the death of others

Offline Roch

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Re: Just joined you
« Reply #18 on: November 05, 2016, 11:27:PM »
Hi Roch, strange they are not the same on my iPad?  You can see that they are different numbers 38126. 38125?

Yes, sorry.  I've double checked and they are  :))
"She was on a mission - a date with death, in league with the devil..." 

(Mike Tesko 2012)

Offline Roch

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Re: Just joined you
« Reply #19 on: November 06, 2016, 12:24:AM »
Wasnt it Bews who sent for armed assistance?
http://jeremybamberforum.co.uk/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=3132.0;attach=38126

Because of this conversation?
http://jeremybamberforum.co.uk/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=3132.0;attach=38125

04.02 FM CA7 – Duty Sgt, 1 Pc and Mr Bamber Junior left veh and approaching house on foot, veh parked out of sight
According to Bonnet's recording, this is the first message received via radio.

 
04.03am All FSU stood down in ED and returning to HQ in preparation for firearms to be drawn.
The next entry by Bonnett - which is then followed by the below entry.

 
04.09am FM CA7 – no signs of life in house, all lights on in premises and two dogs going berserk, son says dogs are normally quiet.  Son, Pc and Sgt. backing off from premises
The wording of this is somewhat confusing - as it places Bamber, Bews and Myall as still actively retreating from the farmhouse.

There is another log which states that at 04.11am CA7 requested armed response.

Although authorisation is not granted until 04.17am preparations were being made at 04.03am while Bamber Bews and Myall were still approaching the farmhouse.
"She was on a mission - a date with death, in league with the devil..." 

(Mike Tesko 2012)

Offline justice

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Re: Just joined you
« Reply #20 on: November 06, 2016, 08:48:AM »
04.02 FM CA7 – Duty Sgt, 1 Pc and Mr Bamber Junior left veh and approaching house on foot, veh parked out of sight
According to Bonnet's recording, this is the first message received via radio.

 
04.03am All FSU stood down in ED and returning to HQ in preparation for firearms to be drawn.
The next entry by Bonnett - which is then followed by the below entry.

 
04.09am FM CA7 – no signs of life in house, all lights on in premises and two dogs going berserk, son says dogs are normally quiet.  Son, Pc and Sgt. backing off from premises
The wording of this is somewhat confusing - as it places Bamber, Bews and Myall as still actively retreating from the farmhouse.

There is another log which states that at 04.11am CA7 requested armed response.

Although authorisation is not granted until 04.17am preparations were being made at 04.03am while Bamber Bews and Myall were still approaching the farmhouse.
Thanks Roch,  you could argue, if it was through Bamber's phone call which was much earlier than 4.03, they would have been stood down straight away, also I think it must have been reinforced by Bews, I wonder what reaction would have been if Bews thought all was ok? 
Envy kills,” the Pope said. “It does not tolerate others having something that I do not have. And it always suffers, because the heart of an envious or jealous person suffers. It is a suffering heart!” It is a suffering that desires “the death of others

Offline Roch

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Re: Just joined you
« Reply #21 on: November 06, 2016, 09:33:PM »
Thanks Roch,  you could argue, if it was through Bamber's phone call which was much earlier than 4.03, they would have been stood down straight away,

You have hit the nail on the head Justice.  If FSU's were not stood down and directed to HQ to collect weapons as a result of Bamber's phone call - nor the situation report from Bews, then what exactly did cause this action to take place?

Whether Bamber phoned at 3.36 am as West recorded, or 3.26 am as the prosecution claims - officially there is no further info provided to Bonnet until 4.09 am / 4.11 am period.  How could there be?  CA7 is the only possible source of further information - because everyone in the farmhouse is already dead; and the only informant is already with the crew of CA7 at the scene.

It follows therefore, that at 4.04 am, without any further information having been received since the initial phone call, a decision is made to make preparations for an armed response team.

also I think it must have been reinforced by Bews, I wonder what reaction would have been if Bews thought all was ok?

There is no situation report from Saxby or Bews until 4.09 am - 4.11 am period.  Somebody independently made the decision that three Force Support Units would need to stand down, return to HQ and draw weapons, seemingly without any further information having been received. 
« Last Edit: November 06, 2016, 09:34:PM by Roch »
"She was on a mission - a date with death, in league with the devil..." 

(Mike Tesko 2012)

Offline Hartley.

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Re: Just joined you
« Reply #22 on: November 06, 2016, 10:33:PM »
You have hit the nail on the head Justice.  If FSU's were not stood down and directed to HQ to collect weapons as a result of Bamber's phone call - nor the situation report from Bews, then what exactly did cause this action to take place?

Whether Bamber phoned at 3.36 am as West recorded, or 3.26 am as the prosecution claims - officially there is no further info provided to Bonnet until 4.09 am / 4.11 am period.  How could there be?  CA7 is the only possible source of further information - because everyone in the farmhouse is already dead; and the only informant is already with the crew of CA7 at the scene.

It follows therefore, that at 4.04 am, without any further information having been received since the initial phone call, a decision is made to make preparations for an armed response team.

There is no situation report from Saxby or Bews until 4.09 am - 4.11 am period.  Somebody independently made the decision that three Force Support Units would need to stand down, return to HQ and draw weapons, seemingly without any further information having been received.

Could it be as simple as a result of discussions taking place at HQ, that a decision was made to put an armed response team on standby.

They also have the additional information regarding the phone being off the hook when they tried calling the number.

Offline Hartley.

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Re: Just joined you
« Reply #23 on: November 06, 2016, 11:40:PM »

04.09am FM CA7 – no signs of life in house, all lights on in premises and two dogs going berserk, son says dogs are normally quiet.  Son, Pc and Sgt. backing off from premises
The wording of this is somewhat confusing - as it places Bamber, Bews and Myall as still actively retreating from the farmhouse.


Saxby stayed with the vehicle which contains the radio with range to contact HQ.

It sounds as if he had contact with Bews/Myall whilst they were scouting the house, by personal radio perhaps?  :-\

Offline justice

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Re: Just joined you
« Reply #24 on: November 07, 2016, 06:23:AM »
You have hit the nail on the head Justice.  If FSU's were not stood down and directed to HQ to collect weapons as a result of Bamber's phone call - nor the situation report from Bews, then what exactly did cause this action to take place?

Whether Bamber phoned at 3.36 am as West recorded, or 3.26 am as the prosecution claims - officially there is no further info provided to Bonnet until 4.09 am / 4.11 am period.  How could there be?  CA7 is the only possible source of further information - because everyone in the farmhouse is already dead; and the only informant is already with the crew of CA7 at the scene.

It follows therefore, that at 4.04 am, without any further information having been received since the initial phone call, a decision is made to make preparations for an armed response team.

There is no situation report from Saxby or Bews until 4.09 am - 4.11 am period.  Somebody independently made the decision that three Force Support Units would need to stand down, return to HQ and draw weapons, seemingly without any further information having been received.
Hi Roch, due to the nature of the call I am sure behind the scenes discussions would have taken place, nothing sinister, just policing how it's done?  The firearms team would have been alerted at some stage and reinforced to get mobile with Bews making his call?
Envy kills,” the Pope said. “It does not tolerate others having something that I do not have. And it always suffers, because the heart of an envious or jealous person suffers. It is a suffering heart!” It is a suffering that desires “the death of others

Offline Roch

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Re: Just joined you
« Reply #25 on: November 07, 2016, 10:50:AM »
They also have the additional information regarding the phone being off the hook when they tried calling the number.

This is correct.  I think it is 3.42am when GPO confirm the phone is off the hook.  I wonder which test they applied in 1985 to confirm that a phone was off the hook? 

Saxby stayed with the vehicle which contains the radio with range to contact HQ.

It sounds as if he had contact with Bews/Myall whilst they were scouting the house, by personal radio perhaps?  :-\

This is what I also wondered.
"She was on a mission - a date with death, in league with the devil..." 

(Mike Tesko 2012)

Offline David1819

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Re: Just joined you
« Reply #26 on: November 07, 2016, 02:27:PM »
You have hit the nail on the head Justice.  If FSU's were not stood down and directed to HQ to collect weapons as a result of Bamber's phone call - nor the situation report from Bews, then what exactly did cause this action to take place?

Whether Bamber phoned at 3.36 am as West recorded, or 3.26 am as the prosecution claims - officially there is no further info provided to Bonnet until 4.09 am / 4.11 am period.  How could there be?  CA7 is the only possible source of further information - because everyone in the farmhouse is already dead; and the only informant is already with the crew of CA7 at the scene.

It follows therefore, that at 4.04 am, without any further information having been received since the initial phone call, a decision is made to make preparations for an armed response team.

There is no situation report from Saxby or Bews until 4.09 am - 4.11 am period.  Somebody independently made the decision that three Force Support Units would need to stand down, return to HQ and draw weapons, seemingly without any further information having been received.

Prosecution at trial claimed Jeremy rang the police at 3.36am while Jeremy maintained it was 3.26am
"Truth is incontrovertible. Malice may attack it, ignorance may deride it, but in the end, there it is."

"The idea that he could invent a tale of a killing spree by a mentally disturbed woman to be lent credibility by further violent episodes over the following decades is hard to credit."

Offline Roch

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Re: Just joined you
« Reply #27 on: November 09, 2016, 05:24:PM »
Prosecution at trial claimed Jeremy rang the police at 3.36am while Jeremy maintained it was 3.26am

It gets confusing.  I think at some point though, we will get to the bottom of what really happened.

Hi Roch, due to the nature of the call I am sure behind the scenes discussions would have taken place, nothing sinister, just policing how it's done?  The firearms team would have been alerted at some stage and reinforced to get mobile with Bews making his call?

Could it be as simple as a result of discussions taking place at HQ, that a decision was made to put an armed response team on standby..

Re the above two suggestions.. I've had a chance to ruminate on this..
"She was on a mission - a date with death, in league with the devil..." 

(Mike Tesko 2012)

Offline Caroline

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Re: Just joined you
« Reply #28 on: November 13, 2016, 12:44:PM »
You ask two questions on your Blog Lou,

If the police were not aware of the risk of weapons being inside and thought that the house was all quiet, why did they send for armed police?
Why did they not break in almost straight away? they were armed after all? Why did they wait for two hours discussing things so thoroughly?

1 you will find this has been answered numerous times, in a nutshell they sent for armed police because Bamber set the scene that his sister was a nutter and armed, add the fact he said he received a call from his father your sister has gone berserk and she's got the gun.  Have a read.
http://jeremybamberforum.co.uk/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=3132.0;attach=38124
http://jeremybamberforum.co.uk/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=3132.0;attach=38125
http://jeremybamberforum.co.uk/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=3132.0;attach=38126

 2 They could not break in straight away, the first officers to arrive was not armed, the raid team did not arrive till later 5.00 they were deployed else where and had to get permission to draw their rifles, once there they then had to discuss tactics and get relevant information from Bamber, then he had to draw plans etc, as you can see this all takes time.

Regarding your queries about windows have a read,

http://jeremybamberforum.co.uk/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=1144.0;attach=5814
http://jeremybamberforum.co.uk/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=1144.0;attach=5815
http://jeremybamberforum.co.uk/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=1144.0;attach=5816
http://jeremybamberforum.co.uk/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=5816.0;attach=37833

Hope this helps you?

It is also against policy to storm a siege situation. They have to try and negotiate first. I don't know why people keep asking this - storming the building was NEVER an option.
100% GUILTY - No doubts!

Offline Caroline

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Re: Just joined you
« Reply #29 on: November 13, 2016, 12:46:PM »
It gets confusing.  I think at some point though, we will get to the bottom of what really happened.

Re the above two suggestions.. I've had a chance to ruminate on this..

Now Jeremy is claiming it was 03:36  ::)
100% GUILTY - No doubts!