Author Topic: neville;s blood trail  (Read 15751 times)

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Offline sami

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neville;s blood trail
« on: September 01, 2016, 10:57:PM »
neville;s lack of blood trail i find strange had he been shot in the bedroom first there should be a trail of blood leading from there to the kitchen the same applies had he been shot in the hall.yet all we find is a smear of blood on the wallpaper on the passage stairs.and i think caroline mentioned some blood outside sheila's room

Offline Romeo

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Re: neville;s blood trail
« Reply #1 on: September 01, 2016, 11:56:PM »
Yes Sami, I've found that odd, but I came to the conclusion, after reading about the blood samples from Neville and June.... if mixed in the silencer, being similar to Sheila's...  I wondered if June and Neville's blood became mixed Or even Sheila's and Neville's blood became mixed. It still doesn't account for there being no blood on Nevilles pillow or his side of the bed clothes, so I think Neville wasn't in bed when shot four times but nearer to June's side of the bed.

Offline David1819

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Re: neville;s blood trail
« Reply #2 on: September 02, 2016, 12:51:AM »
There is a small blood trial going passed the kitchen table to where Neville's body was found.

After Sheila fires several rounds at the twins, Neville realises he cannot handle the situation and proceeds to call for assistance (Jeremy and Police) from the kitchen phone. While Neville is on the phone June is in bed awake, but too afraid of what is happening to get out. Sheila then goes to the gun cupboard to reload the weapon. Once reloaded she goes back upstairs to the main bedroom and fires a volley of bullets at June. The sound of gunshots and June screaming prompts Neville to leave the phone and run towards the stairs. While Neville is rushing up the stairs, Sheila is in the main bedroom close to the hallway and fires the remaining four bullets in the magazine at Neville. Neville then retreats back towards the kitchen badly injured he staggers across the kitchen then collapses were his body was found. Sheila then goes back to the gun cupboard to reload for the final time. Finds Neville injured and slumped near the cooker, then fires the three more shots to Nevilles head. Then she makes her way back upstairs to fire the remaining two shots to Junes head. Then finally turns the gun on herself as the police are about the break the door down.
« Last Edit: September 02, 2016, 12:56:AM by David1819 »

Offline Adam

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Re: neville;s blood trail
« Reply #3 on: September 02, 2016, 09:15:AM »
There is a small blood trial going passed the kitchen table to where Neville's body was found.

After Sheila fires several rounds at the twins, Neville realises he cannot handle the situation and proceeds to call for assistance (Jeremy and Police) from the kitchen phone. While Neville is on the phone June is in bed awake, but too afraid of what is happening to get out. Sheila then goes to the gun cupboard to reload the weapon. Once reloaded she goes back upstairs to the main bedroom and fires a volley of bullets at June. The sound of gunshots and June screaming prompts Neville to leave the phone and run towards the stairs. While Neville is rushing up the stairs, Sheila is in the main bedroom close to the hallway and fires the remaining four bullets in the magazine at Neville. Neville then retreats back towards the kitchen badly injured he staggers across the kitchen then collapses were his body was found. Sheila then goes back to the gun cupboard to reload for the final time. Finds Neville injured and slumped near the cooker, then fires the three more shots to Nevilles head. Then she makes her way back upstairs to fire the remaining two shots to Junes head. Then finally turns the gun on herself as the police are about the break the door down.

I assume you agree Sheila and Neville had been up some time. After both getting out of bed. Neither putting on dressing gowns or slippers.

It's a pity Neville waited until Sheila went upstairs with a fully loaded rifle and started shooting the twins before deciding he 'cannot handle the situation'. He could have done something prior to Sheila taking a conviniently loaded rifle and going upstairs. Like take the rifle off her or put it away. 

After Sheila fires 'several rounds into the twins' I assume you mean 8 bullets, Neville doesn't jump on her to restrain her and then check on the twins. Although she now has only 2/3 bullets left of a rifle for shooting rabbits. Instead he runs downstairs.

Although Neville has not confronted Sheila upstairs, she surprisingly only fires 8 bullets upstairs rather than empties the rifle in her opening 'gone crazy' salvo. With three bullets left she still decides to reload.

Neville err spends several minutes ringing a 'sleeping like a log' Bamber and the police. Although the police were called 26 minutes later.

Neville also does not ask Bamber, or the police (26 minutes later)  for medical assistance.

While Neville is waiting several minutes for Bamber to 'perhaps' answer, he doesn't notice Sheila going to the gun cupboard to reload and then go back upstairs.

June is now awake but too scared of her recovering anorexic daughter who suffers from tardrive dynskensia to go to the twins or Neville. Or lock herself away somewhere. She just stays in bed and lets Sheila shoot her several times while her head is on the pillow.

Neville with his amazing hearing must have heard Sheila's upstairs shots at June at the exact same moment Bamber answered the phone. As he only spent about 6 seconds saying 11 words to Bamber.

Neville then runs upstairs bare footed in just his pyjamas with no protection, I assume to finally smother Sheila so he can give or call for medical assistance. About time to.

Sheila has had time to empty the rifle on June, but expertly still has 4 bullets left. Neville then gets close enough to Sheila to receive 4 close range shots. Two in the head. He doesn't confront Sheila and runs straight back downstairs.

There is then what everyone agrees is a huge kitchen fight. Sheila brutally beating Neville.

With Neville barely alive, Sheila waits several more minutes before telling him to ring Chelmsford police, which was (apparently) Neville's original plan. Why did Sheila do this ? I don't know. 

She finally kills him and lifts him over a coal scuttle so his back can be burnt. Sheila is still uninjured with no lubricant or gun shot residue.

Sheila then stays alive until the police enter WHF. Why ? again I cannot answer.  Then shoots herself and puts the silencer away without the police noticing.

« Last Edit: September 02, 2016, 10:16:AM by Adam »
'Only I know what really happened that night'.

Offline lookout

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Re: neville;s blood trail
« Reply #4 on: September 02, 2016, 09:47:AM »
Because we haven't got ALL the details of this tragedy at the time when it happened,four newspaper reports had said that Neville had been in the hall. Why would four state this ? This being the case it wouldn't put Neville upstairs at all.
This thread is somewhere on the forum but I've forgotten the heading.

Offline Adam

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Re: neville;s blood trail
« Reply #5 on: September 02, 2016, 10:10:AM »
I've given David the chance to follow Sherlock and Holly and agree Neville didn't phone Chelmsford police. My post above again shows it didn't happen.

The problem is even after dropping Neville's call, any Sheila scenario still has dozens of flaws, as recently posted on Red by me. So it is not worth supporters discarding this card.

Best thing for supporters to do is say Neville called the police, and refuse to give a  Sheila scenario. Which is what happens.

But thank  you David for a nice Friday surprise and scenario attempt. Again, you're call.
« Last Edit: September 02, 2016, 10:27:AM by Adam »
'Only I know what really happened that night'.

Offline sami

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Re: neville;s blood trail
« Reply #6 on: September 02, 2016, 10:40:AM »
There is a small blood trial going passed the kitchen table to where Neville's body was found.

After Sheila fires several rounds at the twins, Neville realises he cannot handle the situation and proceeds to call for assistance (Jeremy and Police) from the kitchen phone. While Neville is on the phone June is in bed awake, but too afraid of what is happening to get out. Sheila then goes to the gun cupboard to reload the weapon. Once reloaded she goes back upstairs to the main bedroom and fires a volley of bullets at June. The sound of gunshots and June screaming prompts Neville to leave the phone and run towards the stairs. While Neville is rushing up the stairs, Sheila is in the main bedroom close to the hallway and fires the remaining four bullets in the magazine at Neville. Neville then retreats back towards the kitchen badly injured he staggers across the kitchen then collapses were his body was found. Sheila then goes back to the gun cupboard to reload for the final time. Finds Neville injured and slumped near the cooker, then fires the three more shots to Nevilles head. Then she makes her way back upstairs to fire the remaining two shots to Junes head. Then finally turns the gun on herself as the police are about the break the door down.
yes david ive seen those photo's of the blood in the kitchen.but what i meant was blood trail before he entered the kitchen.i think most of us agree he was first shot upstairs so from the landing to the kitchen there were no droplets of blood on the floor..he may have put his good arm up to the face shots to stop the blood .but the shoulder and arm shots would still be leaking blood.there was some talk on the forum of the smudges of blood on the counter were not tested or the results withheld

Offline lookout

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Re: neville;s blood trail
« Reply #7 on: September 02, 2016, 10:43:AM »
We may,or we may not discover that Neville's blood could well have been found in the hallway as he'd possibly tried to escape via the front door.Not having pics of every room in the house makes it the guessing game that it IS !
Nobody is right.
 We can only go by what's already suggested or told by EP ( if you fully believe them ) We're all working blindfold because we simply weren't there,but a lot of information is pretty sketchy and does depend how and which way you view it. Experience of people in general counts for a lot in this case.

Offline sami

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Re: neville;s blood trail
« Reply #8 on: September 02, 2016, 10:50:AM »
We may,or we may not discover that Neville's blood could well have been found in the hallway as he'd possibly tried to escape via the front door.Not having pics of every room in the house makes it the guessing game that it IS !
Nobody is right.
 We can only go by what's already suggested or told by EP ( if you fully believe them ) We're all working blindfold because we simply weren't there,but a lot of information is pretty sketchy and does depend how and which way you view it. Experience of people in general counts for a lot in this case.
very true lookout,we know he did take the stairs cause there blood on the wallpaper at the bottom of the stairs just before the kitchen door.did ep take a photo of the carpet where sheila lay after removing her body,we might be able to see if sheila had been moved if they had photos of it

Offline sami

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Re: neville;s blood trail
« Reply #9 on: September 02, 2016, 11:02:AM »
Yes Sami, I've found that odd, but I came to the conclusion, after reading about the blood samples from Neville and June.... if mixed in the silencer, being similar to Sheila's...  I wondered if June and Neville's blood became mixed Or even Sheila's and Neville's blood became mixed. It still doesn't account for there being no blood on Nevilles pillow or his side of the bed clothes, so I think Neville wasn't in bed when shot four times but nearer to June's side of the bed.
i agree romeo mixing of their blood could explain it.my memory is terrible but i think they tested 3 carpet samples 9 drops of blood on each or 9 drops of blood all together.iam sure someone can correct me if iam wrong

Offline David1819

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Re: neville;s blood trail
« Reply #10 on: September 02, 2016, 11:04:AM »
I assume you agree Sheila and Neville had been up some time. After both getting out of bed. Neither putting on dressing gowns or slippers.

It's a pity Neville waited until Sheila went upstairs with a fully loaded rifle and started shooting the twins before deciding he 'cannot handle the situation'. He could have done something prior to Sheila taking a conviniently loaded rifle and going upstairs. Like take the rifle off her or put it away. 

After Sheila fires 'several rounds into the twins' I assume you mean 8 bullets, Neville doesn't jump on her to restrain her and then check on the twins. Although she now has only 2/3 bullets left of a rifle for shooting rabbits. Instead he runs downstairs.

Although Neville has not confronted Sheila upstairs, she surprisingly only fires 8 bullets upstairs rather than empties the rifle in her opening 'gone crazy' salvo. With three bullets left she still decides to reload.

Neville err spends several minutes ringing a 'sleeping like a log' Bamber and the police. Although the police were called 26 minutes later.

Neville also does not ask Bamber, or the police (26 minutes later)  for medical assistance.

It was not 26 minutes later, Mugford is a liar

While Neville is waiting several minutes for Bamber to 'perhaps' answer, he doesn't notice Sheila going to the gun cupboard to reload and then go back upstairs.
Nope, because the is another set of stairs at the other end of the house leading down to the office were the gun cupboard is.


June is now awake but too scared of her recovering anorexic daughter who suffers from tardrive dynskensia to go to the twins or Neville. Or lock herself away somewhere. She just stays in bed and lets Sheila shoot her several times while her head is on the pillow.

Neville with his amazing hearing must have heard Sheila's upstairs shots at June at the exact same moment Bamber answered the phone. As he only spent about 6 seconds saying 11 words to Bamber.

Neville then runs upstairs bare footed in just his pyjamas with no protection, I assume to finally smother Sheila so he can give or call for medical assistance. About time to.

Sheila has had time to empty the rifle on June, but expertly still has 4 bullets left. Neville then gets close enough to Sheila to receive 4 close range shots. Two in the head. He doesn't confront Sheila and runs straight back downstairs.

There is then what everyone agrees is a huge kitchen fight. Sheila brutally beating Neville.

With Neville barely alive, Sheila waits several more minutes before telling him to ring Chelmsford police, which was (apparently) Neville's original plan. Why did Sheila do this ? I don't know. 

She finally kills him and lifts him over a coal scuttle so his back can be burnt. Sheila is still uninjured with no lubricant or gun shot residue.

Sheila then stays alive until the police enter WHF. Why ? again I cannot answer.  Then shoots herself and puts the silencer away without the police noticing.

The silencer was in gun cupboard all night, it was never used. The fight in the kitchen never happed the mess in the kitchen was caused by the police firearms team. see below


Offline Adam

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Re: neville;s blood trail
« Reply #11 on: September 02, 2016, 11:09:AM »
Sherlock and Holly both withdrew from Neville calling Chelmsford police in different circumstances.

Sherlock incorporated it into his scenario, however quickly withdrew it after I highlighted problems. Which was the decent thing to do. Holly didn't include it in her scenario at all.

Bamber brought up the claim in 2010, but has withdrawn it by not including it in the 2012 CCRC submission. But appreciate supporters won't withdraw as it sounds good.
« Last Edit: September 02, 2016, 11:32:AM by Adam »
'Only I know what really happened that night'.

Offline sami

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Re: neville;s blood trail
« Reply #12 on: September 02, 2016, 11:13:AM »
david did the entry team go in waving their firearms like baseball bats or was any of them 7ft tall because thats the only way the lampshade above the kitchen table could have got broken
« Last Edit: September 02, 2016, 11:15:AM by sami »

Offline Adam

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Re: neville;s blood trail
« Reply #13 on: September 02, 2016, 11:18:AM »
It was not 26 minutes later, Mugford is a liar
Nope, because the is another set of stairs at the other end of the house leading down to the office were the gun cupboard is.


The silencer was in gun cupboard all night, it was never used. The fight in the kitchen never happed the mess in the kitchen was caused by the police firearms team. see below

 :)

Bamber's WS said Neville called him at 3.10am. Neville calling Chelmsford police 26 minutes later.

Are you saying both times are wrong and Neville spent at least 15 minutes calling Bamber and then Chelmsford police straight afterwards. Not asking for medical assistance.  While the twins were dying and Sheila was reloading. So why only say 11 words to Bamber when he had time to say more ?

The silencer was never used and there was no kitchen fight ? I didn't know that.

« Last Edit: September 02, 2016, 11:25:AM by Adam »
'Only I know what really happened that night'.

Offline lookout

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Re: neville;s blood trail
« Reply #14 on: September 02, 2016, 12:03:PM »
very true lookout,we know he did take the stairs cause there blood on the wallpaper at the bottom of the stairs just before the kitchen door.did ep take a photo of the carpet where sheila lay after removing her body,we might be able to see if sheila had been moved if they had photos of it



Blood at the bottom of the staircase doesn't indicate that he went up those stairs,but possibly attempted to to see what had gone on up there.