Author Topic: Sheila's Clean Hands  (Read 2736 times)

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Offline Hartley.

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Re: Sheila's Clean Hands
« Reply #15 on: January 14, 2016, 06:53:AM »
There are what appear to be three finger marks on the night dress were her finger would have rubbed  :-\

They are blood stains transferred from Sheilas wrist on to folds on her night dress.

Offline Hartley.

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Re: Sheila's Clean Hands
« Reply #16 on: January 14, 2016, 06:56:AM »
Can't see anything about photographing her hands - just about bagging Sheila's hands and the hand swabs.

Well you haven't looked closely enough then.

Offline Hartley.

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Re: Sheila's Clean Hands
« Reply #17 on: January 14, 2016, 07:40:AM »
1. Vanezis says that her hands were not contaminated apart from with blood.
2. Davidson says bags were placed on Sheilas hands whilst her body was in situ at WHF.
3. Hammersley says bags were placed on Sheilas hands whilst her body was in situ at WHF.
4. Davidson says the bags were removed prior to post mortem and hand swabs were taken before washing, he says no police officer would allow washing of the body before hand swabs were taken.
5. Hammersley (who took the swabs) says the swabs appeared clean to the eye.
6. Hammersley says that both of Sheilas hands were clean and free of debris except for "blood staining on the top surface of her right hand towards her wrist".
7. Vanezis says her palm and fingers were free from blood.
8. MacDonnell says that he has seen photographs showing Sheilas hands to be free from blood, but does not know if the body had been washed.

Despite all of this, Caroline decides that if she applies some red paint to her hand, she can make a mark on a piece of paper claiming it proves a bloody palm print is on the bible. She then decides that this proves that Sheilas palms WERE covered in blood.

Fair enough, but personally I don't agree with her reasoning, despite the number of times it gets repeated as if it is fact. Sorry.
« Last Edit: January 14, 2016, 07:41:AM by Hartley. »

Offline lookout

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Re: Sheila's Clean Hands
« Reply #18 on: January 14, 2016, 10:00:AM »
They are blood stains transferred from Sheilas wrist on to folds on her night dress.





Wrist ? They look like fingers to me.

Offline Caroline

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Re: Sheila's Clean Hands
« Reply #19 on: January 14, 2016, 10:04:AM »
1. Vanezis says that her hands were not contaminated apart from blood. Yes, so they had blood on them but he also said 'initially' that there was a palm print on her nightdress which appeared to have been transferred from her right hand. He wouldn't assume this if her hands were clean
2. Davidson says bags were placed on Sheilas hands whilst her body was in situ at WHF.
3. Hammersley says bags were placed on Sheilas hands whilst her body was in situ at WHF.
4. Davidson says the bags were removed prior to post mortem and hand swabs were taken before washing, he says no police officer would allow washing of the body before hand swabs were taken. Well he would wouldn't he?
5. Hammersley (who took the swabs) says the swabs appeared clean to the eye. Again, if they forgot to take pictures he would.
6. Hammersley says that both of Sheilas hands were clean and free of debris except for "blood staining on the top surface of her right hand towards her wrist". As above
7. Vanezis says her palm and fingers were free from blood. But now he is again contradicting what he said when interviwed by Carol Ann Lee.
8. MacDonnell says that he has seen photographs showing Sheilas hands to be free from blood, but does not know if the body had been washed. Exactly

Despite all of this, Caroline decides that if she applies some red paint to her hand, she can make a mark on a piece of paper claiming it proves a bloody palm print is on the bible. She then decides that this proves that Sheilas palms WERE covered in blood. That's not really fair H and it has nothing to do with red paint - that was simply to show that the print on the bible looked like a palm print and nothing to do with Sheila simply having blood stains on her right hand - that had everything to do with Venezis's written notes, notes he took at the autopsy.

Fair enough, but personally I don't agree with her reasoning, despite the number of times it gets repeated as if it is fact. Sorry. No need to apologise, I'm not looking for approval - if I was, this isn't thisn't the place to seek it.  ;D ;D ;D
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Offline Caroline

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Re: Sheila's Clean Hands
« Reply #20 on: January 14, 2016, 10:06:AM »
They are blood stains transferred from Sheilas wrist on to folds on her night dress.

Even Venezis disagrees with this now - it is a VERY weak excuse and they look nothing like blood trails. The blood trails on her arms, had to come from somewhere - or are you saying that they just started at her wrist?  ???
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Offline lookout

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Re: Sheila's Clean Hands
« Reply #21 on: January 14, 2016, 10:20:AM »
Those trails on Sheila's forearm look like wounds to me,but what sort of wounds I'm not sure.

Offline Jan

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Re: Sheila's Clean Hands
« Reply #22 on: January 14, 2016, 12:30:PM »
I don't quite understand the blood trails from under her armpit and over the top of her arms as if she was leant sideways at one point

Offline Hartley.

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Re: Sheila's Clean Hands
« Reply #23 on: January 14, 2016, 02:26:PM »
Even Venezis disagrees with this now - it is a VERY weak excuse and they look nothing like blood trails. The blood trails on her arms, had to come from somewhere - or are you saying that they just started at her wrist?  ???

The blood on her arm has transferred from the wounds in her neck, then dripped down her arm.

Not really sure what else you are suggesting?  :-\

Offline David1819

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Re: Sheila's Clean Hands
« Reply #24 on: January 14, 2016, 03:14:PM »
The blood on her arm has transferred from the wounds in her neck, then dripped down her arm.

Not really sure what else you are suggesting?  :-\

The lower shot was inflicted while she was sitting upwards, This caused haemorrhage to the external jugular vein. In my opinion the blood on her arm and arm pit area got their via blood squirting and help of gravity even if only for a second or two
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Offline Caroline

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Re: Sheila's Clean Hands
« Reply #25 on: January 14, 2016, 03:16:PM »
The blood on her arm has transferred from the wounds in her neck, then dripped down her arm.

Not really sure what else you are suggesting:-\

That it must have been on her hand to travel down her arm.
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Offline Hartley.

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Re: Sheila's Clean Hands
« Reply #26 on: January 14, 2016, 03:51:PM »
That it must have been on her hand to travel down her arm.

I'm not sure why you want the pathologist and umpteen police officers to be lying.


It's very clear:

Offline lookout

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Re: Sheila's Clean Hands
« Reply #27 on: January 14, 2016, 03:53:PM »
The lower shot was inflicted while she was sitting upwards, This caused haemorrhage to the external jugular vein. In my opinion the blood on her arm and arm pit area got their via blood squirting and help of gravity even if only for a second or two





The stripes of blood on her lower arm could have been caused by drips from her neck maybe ?

Offline Jan

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Re: Sheila's Clean Hands
« Reply #28 on: January 14, 2016, 04:53:PM »
The lower shot was inflicted while she was sitting upwards, This caused haemorrhage to the external jugular vein. In my opinion the blood on her arm and arm pit area got their via blood squirting and help of gravity even if only for a second or two

I don't think I am explaining myself and I don't like posting the photos . But in the pictures she has heavy bloodstaining in the armpit and then a blood trail up over the top of her arm towards the  back of her shoulder where as at that point the blood from both wounds seem to be flowing back round her neck .

I understand I think what you are saying about the blood under her armpit but if she was sitting up the blood should flow down ?

Offline maggie

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Re: Sheila's Clean Hands
« Reply #29 on: January 14, 2016, 06:07:PM »
The lower shot was inflicted while she was sitting upwards, This caused haemorrhage to the external jugular vein. In my opinion the blood on her arm and arm pit area got their via blood squirting and help of gravity even if only for a second or two
Blood doesn't squirt from a vein, David.