Author Topic: David Bain similairities to Jeremy Bamber  (Read 8172 times)

0 Members and 2 Guests are viewing this topic.

Offline maggie

  • Global Moderator
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 12801
Re: David Bain similairities to Jeremy Bamber
« Reply #315 on: July 15, 2017, 10:38:PM »
His pupils were dilated that first morning, as noted by Ann Eaton. You're surely not refuting that he took drugs recreationally.
Of course I'm not refuting that he took drugs recreationally, however there is no proof he had taken central nervous system drugs during that night.. Anyone suffering from lack of sleep and food is likely to have low blood sugar a symptom of which is dilated pupils. Any one who ever worked,d on night duty as a nurse would know this is true. I am not saying he definitely hadn't taken drugs but I am saying neither you nor Ann Eaton have proof that he had. She and you have made assumptions, it is not fact.
« Last Edit: July 16, 2017, 09:20:AM by maggie »

Offline maggie

  • Global Moderator
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 12801
Re: David Bain similairities to Jeremy Bamber
« Reply #316 on: July 15, 2017, 10:43:PM »
I'm not an expert on this subject, but from what I have read about the case it seems Jeremy was moody without cannabis. I don't know what effect cocaine has on an individual's pupils, but I'm just reading about another Jeremy who seems to have been affected in a similar way. http://www.msn.com/en-gb/entertainment/celebrity/exclusive-stephanie-davis-opens-up-about-year-of-hell-with-cocaine-addict-jeremy-mcconnell-which-has-destroyed-her-life/ar-BBErXl9?ocid=spartanntp
Cannabis is more likely to send you to sleep than murder someone, hardly a drug of choice when you need to be alert and violent.  Cocaine, particularly Crack Cocaine would make someone alert and possibly violent however the effects only last for about 30 minutes so that seems like a non starter as well. Can't see how he was topping himself up through the night and early morning.  Crack is a really nasty drug but the after effects mean he would have been agitated, restless and hyperactive however he showed no sign of any such behaviour while outside WHF with the police.
« Last Edit: July 15, 2017, 10:48:PM by maggie »

Offline Steve_uk

  • Veteran Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 8563
Re: David Bain similairities to Jeremy Bamber
« Reply #317 on: July 15, 2017, 10:45:PM »
Cannabis is more likely to send you to sleep than murder someone, hardly a drug of choice when you need to be alert and violent.  Cocaine, particularly Crack Cocaine would make someone alert and possibly violent however the effects only last for about 30 minutes so that seems like a non starter as well.
Well we don't know when he imbibed the doses.

Offline maggie

  • Global Moderator
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 12801
Re: David Bain similairities to Jeremy Bamber
« Reply #318 on: July 15, 2017, 10:52:PM »
Well we don't know when he imbibed the doses.
Sorry I added to the above post after you had quoted it. Crack Cocaine causes agitation, hyperactivity etc., JB showed no sign of such behaviour while outside WHF with the police.

Offline Jan

  • Veteran Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 8913
Re: David Bain similairities to Jeremy Bamber
« Reply #319 on: July 15, 2017, 10:53:PM »
I think definitely 1) yes.

She is one cold fish then

Offline Samson

  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 171
Re: David Bain similairities to Jeremy Bamber
« Reply #320 on: July 16, 2017, 02:10:AM »
She is one cold fish then
Yess.
I have never studied eye dilation and do not believe it particularly.
I would like to see a study. When I was young, when substances were weetbix and milk, schoolmates said my pupils were huge and abnormal, some decades on I am probably still with this condition.
A seventy year old in New Zealand tried to buy wine while wearing sunglasses at 4pm the other day. The supermarket check out attendant instructed him to remove them so his pupils could be examined. Yuk for this new paranoid society, where 25 year olds humiliate the aged in such a ridiculous way.
Meanwhile, Steve is so deluded he is a potential problem, he is being grossly defamatory of David Bain, even after I have tried to help him with the case with definitive evidential material. I suppose while Jeremy Bamber is caged defamation is good sport, but I find it repellant. Just me.

On red John removes posts defamatory of "expert" witnesses that caged Bamber.
« Last Edit: July 16, 2017, 02:11:AM by Samson »

Offline Steve_uk

  • Veteran Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 8563
Re: David Bain similairities to Jeremy Bamber
« Reply #321 on: July 16, 2017, 02:28:AM »
Yess.
I have never studied eye dilation and do not believe it particularly.
I would like to see a study. When I was young, when substances were weetbix and milk, schoolmates said my pupils were huge and abnormal, some decades on I am probably still with this condition.
A seventy year old in New Zealand tried to buy wine while wearing sunglasses at 4pm the other day. The supermarket check out attendant instructed him to remove them so his pupils could be examined. Yuk for this new paranoid society, where 25 year olds humiliate the aged in such a ridiculous way.
Meanwhile, Steve is so deluded he is a potential problem, he is being grossly defamatory of David Bain, even after I have tried to help him with the case with definitive evidential material. I suppose while Jeremy Bamber is caged defamation is good sport, but I find it repellant. Just me.

On red John removes posts defamatory of "expert" witnesses that caged Bamber.
I hope you're not going to become a problem poster. Looking at some of the reviews of Trial By Ambush I came up with these:

"Great fantasy stuff."
 
1 stars"
Review by G on 16th February, 2012
Great fantasy stuff. Up there in league with Stephen Kings latest, phen king 22.11.63. We should be grateful we have such a great fantasy writer in our midst. Ambush- Yes, the family were ambushed.


Worst comic I have ever read."
 





1 stars"
Review by Bert on 14th February, 2012
Read Trial by ambush and was stunned that Joe Karam thinks Robin Bain did the murders even though there is no evidence linking him to any of the 4 separate murder scenes. Joe seems to think Robin took off all his bloody clothes and that David very kindly washed them for him. Check out all the evidence HERE http://davidbain.counterspin.co.nz/


"Very Disappointing"
 





1 stars"
Review by Alan on 22nd February, 2012
Other authors have provided a far better account of this case. Extremely one-eyed. Overlooks the facts of the case to produce a scenario blaming a victim. Waste of time reading, but demonstrates the need for a law change to protect those who can no longer speak for themselves.

"More of the same old rubbish"
 





1 stars"
Review by Kent on 16th February, 2012
If you want to read about someone being unfairly slandered in their death, then this is the book for you. If you read the two previous books, then don't expect anything new. The only trial by ambush was the Defence's inclusion of a copier representative at the last minute in the retrial, who ended up providing false testimony.


8 out of 13 people found this review helpful.
"Very disappointing"
 





1 stars"
Review by Aileen on 21st February, 2012
Had been waiting a long time for this book to come out. Had hoped to finally learn something new, and discover how it was that a second jury found David bain innocent, very disappointed, nothing new at all.

"A complete waste of money."
 





1 stars"
Review by CHRISTINE on 16th February, 2012
Why was I surprised that a man who had a huge financial interest in persuading me that David Bain was not guilty could not only not write a balanced book but was stupid enough to think I would believe him. A complete waste of money.

5 out of 12 people found this review helpful.
"Excellent read!"
 





5 stars"
Review by Anne on 23rd February, 2012
A well written account of the prosecutions of David Bain. Very informative particularly on the points of evidence that were not made available previously. Recommended.




Offline Samson

  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 171
Re: David Bain similairities to Jeremy Bamber
« Reply #322 on: July 16, 2017, 02:35:AM »
I hope you're not going to become a problem poster. Looking at some of the reviews of Trial By Ambush I came up with these:

"Great fantasy stuff."
 
1 stars"
Review by G on 16th February, 2012
Great fantasy stuff. Up there in league with Stephen Kings latest, phen king 22.11.63. We should be grateful we have such a great fantasy writer in our midst. Ambush- Yes, the family were ambushed.


Worst comic I have ever read."
 





1 stars"
Review by Bert on 14th February, 2012
Read Trial by ambush and was stunned that Joe Karam thinks Robin Bain did the murders even though there is no evidence linking him to any of the 4 separate murder scenes. Joe seems to think Robin took off all his bloody clothes and that David very kindly washed them for him. Check out all the evidence HERE http://davidbain.counterspin.co.nz/


"Very Disappointing"
 





1 stars"
Review by Alan on 22nd February, 2012
Other authors have provided a far better account of this case. Extremely one-eyed. Overlooks the facts of the case to produce a scenario blaming a victim. Waste of time reading, but demonstrates the need for a law change to protect those who can no longer speak for themselves.

"More of the same old rubbish"
 





1 stars"
Review by Kent on 16th February, 2012
If you want to read about someone being unfairly slandered in their death, then this is the book for you. If you read the two previous books, then don't expect anything new. The only trial by ambush was the Defence's inclusion of a copier representative at the last minute in the retrial, who ended up providing false testimony.


8 out of 13 people found this review helpful.
"Very disappointing"
 





1 stars"
Review by Aileen on 21st February, 2012
Had been waiting a long time for this book to come out. Had hoped to finally learn something new, and discover how it was that a second jury found David bain innocent, very disappointed, nothing new at all.

"A complete waste of money."
 





1 stars"
Review by CHRISTINE on 16th February, 2012
Why was I surprised that a man who had a huge financial interest in persuading me that David Bain was not guilty could not only not write a balanced book but was stupid enough to think I would believe him. A complete waste of money.

5 out of 12 people found this review helpful.
"Excellent read!"
 





5 stars"
Review by Anne on 23rd February, 2012
A well written account of the prosecutions of David Bain. Very informative particularly on the points of evidence that were not made available previously. Recommended.
Here is a further post with significant references from your kiwiblog link

Pooh

I have watched Bryan Bruce’s doco several times. The original screening on TV and several times with a copy recorded by the video llbrary at the university of Otago.

Bryan makes a great issue that seems to discredit the evidence from a salesman regarding Robin’s mental state by showing the rear doors of his van could not have been opened because of the built in furniture. Neglecting of course that the saleman may in fact have meant the side door which all vans have.

When you slow the section of the video down which shows Robin’s hands, traces of what looks very much like blood are visible around the nails. Photographs in Karam’s latest book shows this very clearly including a significant bruise.

The retrial and even the admissions by crown witnesses including police at that retrial show the prosecution case was a complete parody. The decision by the Privy reinforces this impression. If the Privy council cant spot a crock who can?

Dr Don Mathias’, a legal expert has nothing but praise for Karam’s meticulous and remorseless demolition of the Crown case and police investigation. Google his blog. Don Mathias’s Criminal Law Blog/Karam’s book.
Better still read Karam’s book “Trial by Ambush”

Bruce’s documentary seems very selective in what it reveals and does not reveal.

Truly the arm of the law is long!
Thumb up 0 Thumb down 0  REPORTFEBRUARY 29, 2012 10:38PM

Does THAT help Steve?
Problem posters are categorised by a dodgem attitude, I always take note of moderators, so you might identify to them how I am a problem. I have done my homework on this case and a score of others. Always read the book and look for logic errors.  I have done so with Carol Anne Lee for example with close attention, even to her impossible crime narrative as proposed by polis...
« Last Edit: July 16, 2017, 02:50:AM by Samson »

Offline Samson

  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 171
Re: David Bain similairities to Jeremy Bamber
« Reply #323 on: July 16, 2017, 02:41:AM »
On rereading my "problem" post, I am referring to the laws of defamation as they exist in New Zealand and Britain. A complete defence rests in factual truth, but the issue with David Bain is he has been found not guilty. He is being nonetheless relentlessly defamed in New Zealand, because in law he is factually only not guilty beyond reasonable doubt, but with science blended in, he is factually innocent.
The case is only finished because he has tired of it, but many private prosecutions could easily be entered against the defamers.
I strongly encourage all Bamber supporters, and of course detractors, to read every word of Trial by Ambush. It is a frightening exposee of the 8 headed hydra plucking and devouring an innocent crew member from Ship New Zealand.
« Last Edit: July 16, 2017, 03:14:AM by Samson »

Offline Jane J

  • Hero Member
  • ******
  • Posts: 23318
Re: David Bain similairities to Jeremy Bamber
« Reply #324 on: July 16, 2017, 09:46:AM »
So you are saying that

1) Anne , in amongst everything that was going on , the shock of what had happened to her family , including the children , the police presence and everything else that was going on looked deeply in to Jeremy's eyes to make this important observation
2) she was an expert on drug use and realised it was necessary to make note of this
3) through this you have concluded Jeremy was high on drugs in the night of the murders ?


Shame the police who have probably got a lot more experience did not notice . It would have helped them a lot.

I was met a guy who I thought had unusual eyes. It struck me as soon as we met. It was only later that I realized he had taken something. When we first met his eyes were black. They glittered. Later on, they were hazel.

I'm no expert on drugs in practice but I immediately saw there was something 'different' about him.

I can make no comment on how long the effects last. I can only conclude it's dependent on when and how much was taken.

It was dark when the police first saw Jeremy. If they hadn't noticed it immediately -as did Ann- with all that was going on they probably missed it.

Offline Samson

  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 171
Re: David Bain similairities to Jeremy Bamber
« Reply #325 on: July 16, 2017, 10:09:AM »
I was met a guy who I thought had unusual eyes. It struck me as soon as we met. It was only later that I realized he had taken something. When we first met his eyes were black. They glittered. Later on, they were hazel.

I'm no expert on drugs in practice but I immediately saw there was something 'different' about him.

I can make no comment on how long the effects last. I can only conclude it's dependent on when and how much was taken.

It was dark when the police first saw Jeremy. If they hadn't noticed it immediately -as did Ann- with all that was going on they probably missed it.
JaneJ:
I persevere with hard science because these cases should be beacons that aveert more judicial catastrophes, for the Eatons, the Boutflours, for Colin Caffel, for Jeremy Bamber. They are all destroyed and their lives are worthless after all this. Jeremy Bamber will recover, the others will never.

Offline Steve_uk

  • Veteran Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 8563
Re: David Bain similairities to Jeremy Bamber
« Reply #326 on: July 21, 2017, 08:12:PM »
There's more here for those predisposed to David Bain's innocence. If you want inaccuracies, half-truths and misrepresentations all skilfully done, go ahead..https://www.pressreader.com/new-zealand/herald-on-sunday/20070527/282046207671293
« Last Edit: July 21, 2017, 08:16:PM by Steve_uk »

Offline Samson

  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 171
Re: David Bain similairities to Jeremy Bamber
« Reply #327 on: Yesterday at 01:27 PM »
There's more here for those predisposed to David Bain's innocence. If you want inaccuracies, half-truths and misrepresentations all skilfully done, go ahead..https://www.pressreader.com/new-zealand/herald-on-sunday/20070527/282046207671293

In my experience these cases play out along party lines. You are wedded to the 23 year olds killing for money, forgetting that even they would appreciate, and thus not embark on the enterprise, that successful quintuple murders are never achieved, evidence inevitably ties them directly to the crime.

No doubt you will enjoy this 10 part podcast by a man who has wasted his life on the case, and who mistakenly calls it complex, when complexity is simply a corollary to the police arresting an innocent man.

http://www.stuff.co.nz/national/crime/93827727/martin-van-beynen-why-the-david-bain-story-needed-to-be-told-one-more-time

I can't help you further Steve, you are as deluded as all but the trial judge that instructed the jury to pay most attention to the contact wound and the perfect suicide trajectory. Pankhurst was correct, and there were many more factors. Here is an extended argument from a man from Dunedin

Ron Davis
July 15th, 2010 at 19:19
I have just posted a long explanation as to how there is unanswerable proof that Robin Bain was the killer.It is on the page headed Micheal Reed QC a Commentary. However I have just landed on this page and read B.Es Comments and I cannot let them go unanswered. B.E comments at the end of the third paragraph ” Despite this blood bath,his hands, his clothes and footwear were almost entirely free of blood,what blood there was did not come from any member of his family and his fingerprints were not found anywhere on the rifle. I suggest that you look at the photographs shown in Joe Karams book “David and Goliath” There are three photos that establish that Robin Bain was the killer. (1) There is a photo of Robin lying dead in the lounge. It shows a spray of blood on the bean bag next to Robins left elbow. It shows the Green woollen beanie that Robin had been wearing, trapped in the hood of his Blue sweat shirt. Note that the beanie covers up a fairly large blood stain on the front of the hood and also that the hood is doubled back over Robins shoulder so that another large blood stain on the back of the hood is completly obscured by the hood and the beanie. Detective Mark Lodge was in charge of Robins body and he made copious notes as to what he saw. These notes are also printed in Karams book. As well as the blood stains noted above, there is blood on his right elbow. There is blood behind his right shoulder ,this is behind the shoulder but in another photo in Karams book ,The Blue T shirt which is stained with all this blood is shown in a rather strange manner in a police photo that was shown to the jury in the first trial. ( I am not sure what was shown to the jury in the second trial)If you look at this photo you can see that the right shoulder has been rucked forwards so that what is really behind the shoulder appears to be on the front. Similar trickery was used by the prosecution on another photo which shows the light blue track pants which also have blood spots on them. In this photo, The garment has also been rucked around so that what is really behind the right leg appears to be on the front of the leg.In both these cases it is made to appear that blood stains which are really in a position where they could not possibly have to from the head wound in Robins left temple. I had a discusion with Joe Karam over this when I first learned of the defence proposition that Robin changed his clothes.I pointed out to Joe that The Green beanie was trapped in the hood covering up blood stains on the hood which made them immposible to have got there from the head wound and the brown jersey was pulled out of the waist band of Robins trousers indicating that Robin had been in a fight with Stephen. Karam dismissed my comments and said that he believed that Dr Dempster the Pathologist had removed the beanie while he examined the body and that he had pulled out the brown jersey to take body temperatures.At the time I accepted this. ( It Was during the Court of Appeal hearings when Colin Withnal acted for Bain) When this last trial started however and I heard Doctor Hentschell give his evidence about finding GREEN WOOL FIBRES AND BROWN WOOL FIBRES under Stephen Bains fingernails, I took another look at those photos. It is blindingly obvious that Robin Bain was NOT wearing the Green Beanie when he was shot. If you look at the trails of blood running down his forehead from the wound in his left temple. The blood trails are clear and pristine, they show no signs of smudging. The beanie and the hood do not have bullet holes in them. If they had been on Robins head and worn normaly as everybody else does in Dunedin on a freezing cold morning then ,if he was shot by some other person,the bullet should have gone through both those garments. The fact that the trails are unsmudged means Robin was not wearing the Beanie otherwise the wool would have soaked up the blood and probably stopped it spraying on the curtain and the bean bag and it would have left smears of blood on Robins forehead not clear trails. This establishes that the beanie and the hoodie are covering up blood stains that were made BEFORE ROBIN WAS SHOT THROUGH THE HEAD and the fact that they are covering up blood stains, means that the blood cannot have come from Robins head wound.It is pretty clear that the blood stains got on the beanie and the hood during the fight with Stephen and the beanie got knocked off his head along with the hood. How else could the beanie and the hood have got to where they were by David shooting Robin? As far as the lack of fingerprints is concerned, Robin used the white gondalier T shirt to clean himself up a bit after he shot Arawa. It had been wetted as the Police said they though David had tried to sponge blood off of it. More likely Robin used it as a sponge. He wiped his face and hands off with it cursorily. He left traces of blood round his fingernails ( See Karams book) and he left a short trail of blood above his right eyebrow. This is completly separate from the main blood trails over his forehead. The only logical explanation for all this is that Robin had the fight with Stephen.Finger prints are only left if there is blood on the fingers or blood or oil or jam or some other substance on the rifle. Robin wiped his hands and the rifle before he went up stairs and heard Laniet gurgling and then went in and shot her. B.E make a further statement that has no facts to back it up Quote. “Based partly on the discovery in the downstairs washing machine of a GREEN JERSEY KNOWN TO HAVE BEEN WORN BY STEPHENS KILLER. Perhaps B.E can explain to me how it is known that the green jersey was worn by the killer. There is not the slightest evidence that the green jersey was worn by either Robin or David. Hentschell is discredited by his own evidence that he found GREEN FIBRES AND BROWN WOOL FIBRES UNDER STEPHENS FINGERNAILS If there ever was blood on the green jersey, then more likely Arawa was about to put it on after being woken up by the fight with Stephen and Robin picked it up after shooting Arawa and used it to wipe the blood off of the rifle. Wool is not too good for that sort of job so Robin threw it on the wash pile ( Where later on David picked it up to put into the washing machine and got some blood on his crotch from it) Robin then used the white gondalier T shirt to clean himself and the rifle. It was Davids defence who put forwards the theory that Robin Bain changed his clothes and took his boots off. Apparently, they believed the evidence of the ESR scientists that all the blood on Robin was his own blood. What I have just shown you is that it is IMPOSSIBLE FOR ANY OF THE BLOOD ON ROBIN BAIN TO HAVE GOT THERE FROM HIS OWN HEAD WOUND, THERE FORE IT MUST HAVE COME FROM STEPHENS HAND AND HEAD WOUND AND THEREFORE ROBIN BAIN WAS THE KILLER OF THE WHOLE FAMILY . To repeat, The only blood on Robin Bain that was his own is the Pristine trails of blood over his fore head, The only blood in the room that is Robins are the small spray over the curtain and another small spray over the bean bag next to Robins left elbow Q.E.D. Ron

http://brianedwardsmedia.co.nz/2010/07/a-persuasive-defence-of-robin-bain/

Also, comments by Peter Entwisle are extensive in rebuttal of dear old Brian's gullible response to Bryan Bruce's disgraceful nonsense.





« Last Edit: Yesterday at 01:44 PM by Samson »

Offline Steve_uk

  • Veteran Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 8563
Re: David Bain similairities to Jeremy Bamber
« Reply #328 on: Yesterday at 04:50 PM »
I would appreciate watching the podcast itself and not just a trailer, and maybe some photos from Joe Karam's book showing the blood on Robin Bain. I'm going to go into more detail this summer because no crimes of this magnitude occur in a vacuum, and I won't have a family man who dedicated himself to his wife and children slandered in such an outrageous manner.

Offline Steve_uk

  • Veteran Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 8563
Re: David Bain similairities to Jeremy Bamber
« Reply #329 on: Yesterday at 05:59 PM »
It's a complex story with many strands, on which even the most eminent psychiatrists disagree. But the starting point to my mind is when Robin Bain and wife Margaret (née Cullen) move to Papua New Guinea in 1974 for Robin's new job, where he worked for a Church-run school training new teachers. Robin was still a hippy at heart with very progressive views on education, and if any excuse could be found to have a picnic with his pupils by the beach Robin would seize it. You can read more about Robin and Margaret in those early years here, by an article written by his younger brother, Michael: http://www.noted.co.nz/archive/listener-nz-2009/robin-was-no-killer-my-brothers-life/