Author Topic: David Bain similairities to Jeremy Bamber  (Read 8171 times)

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Offline Steve_uk

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Re: David Bain similairities to Jeremy Bamber
« Reply #16 on: December 13, 2015, 08:55:PM »
They both had mothers who had a religious mania, and "a desire to supplant the father as head of the household." http://davidbain.counterspin.co.nz/evidence/david-had-a-number-of-possible-motives

Offline nugnug

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Re: David Bain similairities to Jeremy Bamber
« Reply #17 on: December 13, 2015, 09:53:PM »
i cant really conection exept new zealand.

Offline David1819

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Re: David Bain similairities to Jeremy Bamber
« Reply #18 on: December 13, 2015, 11:06:PM »
i cant really conection exept new zealand.

what do you mean?
"Truth is incontrovertible. Malice may attack it, ignorance may deride it, but in the end, there it is."

"The idea that he could invent a tale of a killing spree by a mentally disturbed woman to be lent credibility by further violent episodes over the following decades is hard to credit."

Offline lookout

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Re: David Bain similairities to Jeremy Bamber
« Reply #19 on: December 14, 2015, 10:18:AM »
Nugs meant that he can't see the connection between Bamber and Bain except for New Zealand where Jeremy once visited and Bain lives.

Offline Caroline

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Re: David Bain similairities to Jeremy Bamber
« Reply #20 on: December 14, 2015, 04:52:PM »
Steve, one of the the first things that happens with immediate shock is either collapsing or being/feeling sick.It depends on the person and whether they're prone to either. Some people aren't.

Wasn't he supposed to be in shock when he received the supposed call from Nevill? Perhaps that's why it took him so long to call the police?  ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D
100% GUILTY - No doubts!

Offline Steve_uk

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Re: David Bain similairities to Jeremy Bamber
« Reply #21 on: December 14, 2015, 09:37:PM »
There was a delay in telephoning emergency services in both cases: with Jeremy one speculates that he was cleaning up after the event, whilst with David Bain he was waiting behind an alcove curtain with rifle cocked for his father to enter the lounge to start his morning prayers. http://davidbain.counterspin.co.nz/error/the-sinister-15-minutes-delay-between-the-end-of-davids-paper-run-and-the-111-call-may-not-be-missin
« Last Edit: December 14, 2015, 09:38:PM by Steve_uk »

Offline David1819

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Re: David Bain similairities to Jeremy Bamber
« Reply #22 on: December 14, 2015, 10:31:PM »
whilst with David Bain he was waiting behind an alcove curtain with rifle cocked for his father to enter the lounge to start his morning prayers.

In prosecution fantasy land that is
"Truth is incontrovertible. Malice may attack it, ignorance may deride it, but in the end, there it is."

"The idea that he could invent a tale of a killing spree by a mentally disturbed woman to be lent credibility by further violent episodes over the following decades is hard to credit."

Offline Steve_uk

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Re: David Bain similairities to Jeremy Bamber
« Reply #23 on: December 15, 2015, 08:55:PM »
In prosecution fantasy land that is
No it's quite clear how David committed the murders: http://davidbain.counterspin.co.nz/evidence/the-empty-shell-casing

Offline Steve_uk

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Re: David Bain similairities to Jeremy Bamber
« Reply #24 on: December 18, 2015, 11:54:PM »
I quote some passages from James McNeish's book The Mask of Sanity, a study of David Bain, which could equally apply to Jeremy Bamber.

1st psychiatrist:

He is not mad in the clinical sense. We're looking for the kind of peculiarity which lies in a different area from madness..he doesn't strike me as unusual-a combination of naivete and puppyish eagerness. I'm not even sure I am entirely convinced that he is outside the normal, which leaves a real problem if he did it.

The second said:

On the outside there appears to be an OK mental state. But there is also a hidden tapestry of frightening dynamics including violence being acted out with, as the centre, I suspect, an obsessive and narcissistic personality.

The neuro-psychiastrist said:

He is like a professional, he's got a game plan. He thinks it through. Once you invest that much planning, you get caught up in it, blinded by your own cleverness. You lose the capacity to make a moral judgement. Psychopathic? Mad, no question. It's stupid to say he is not.
« Last Edit: December 19, 2015, 12:08:AM by Steve_uk »

Offline Steve_uk

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Re: David Bain similairities to Jeremy Bamber
« Reply #25 on: December 19, 2015, 12:08:AM »
What caused the killings?

It is one thing to talk about an underlying hatred. Many people end up hating their parents but they don't shoot them. Hatred may be an underlying cause but it is not motivation. Motive, by itself, as the judge told the jury, is not enough. In his summing up, Justice Williamson pointed to the difference between motivation and intention-he gave the example of a man wanting to blow up a plane to get the insurance money. The man's motive or object-money-was clear, but to achieve his end the passengers and crew would die.

It is an extremely useful analogy. David Bain became enmeshed, I believe, to the point where he found himself in a trap. He needed to escape, but to do so he had to kill everyone.

Many will say, with Professor Trompf, that he didn't know what he was doing. This is the sympathetic view, a view shared by Professor Mullen. The crimes may have been cold-blooded but the motive(unstated) was "anything but cold-blooded." Less sympathetically, if I am right: the motive was to escape from the family, to escape from prison. To break out of prison, it is necessary to kill the guards.

In distinguishing between motive and intent, the judge was talking about ends and means, about thinking something through to achieve an end- "the means to an end," as he put it, "with the consequences along the way." Between the lines he was saying that David Bain knew exactly what he was doing.

James Mc Neish The Mask of Sanity

Offline David1819

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Re: David Bain similairities to Jeremy Bamber
« Reply #26 on: December 19, 2015, 11:53:PM »
I quote some passages from James McNeish's book The Mask of Sanity, a study of David Bain, which could equally apply to Jeremy Bamber.

1st psychiatrist:

He is not mad in the clinical sense. We're looking for the kind of peculiarity which lies in a different area from madness..he doesn't strike me as unusual-a combination of naivete and puppyish eagerness. I'm not even sure I am entirely convinced that he is outside the normal, which leaves a real problem if he did it.

The second said:

On the outside there appears to be an OK mental state. But there is also a hidden tapestry of frightening dynamics including violence being acted out with, as the centre, I suspect, an obsessive and narcissistic personality.

The neuro-psychiastrist said:

He is like a professional, he's got a game plan. He thinks it through. Once you invest that much planning, you get caught up in it, blinded by your own cleverness. You lose the capacity to make a moral judgement. Psychopathic? Mad, no question. It's stupid to say he is not.


I have seem a televised debate with James McNeish and Joe Karam.

James McNeish puts far to much emphasis on the mental and phychological side of things and not so much on the forensics. Psychiatrist have to base themselves on the conviction as part of their analysis.

This is were you have a 50/50 situation with no grey area in the middle. A man could be truly innocent of the brutal crime hence his protests of innocence are convincing but you could always refute that by claiming he is a psychopathic master manipulator.

That's why I focus more on the forensic side instead of psychology side.
"Truth is incontrovertible. Malice may attack it, ignorance may deride it, but in the end, there it is."

"The idea that he could invent a tale of a killing spree by a mentally disturbed woman to be lent credibility by further violent episodes over the following decades is hard to credit."

Offline Steve_uk

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Re: David Bain similairities to Jeremy Bamber
« Reply #27 on: December 20, 2015, 12:02:AM »

I have seem a televised debate with James McNeish and Joe Karam.

James McNeish puts far to much emphasis on the mental and phychological side of things and not so much on the forensics. Psychiatrist have to base themselves on the conviction as part of their analysis.

This is were you have a 50/50 situation with no grey area in the middle. A man could be truly innocent of the brutal crime hence his protests of innocence are convincing but you could always refute that by claiming he is a psychopathic master manipulator.

That's why I focus more on the forensic side instead of psychology side.
Neither Jeremy nor David have confessed. It's strange that much anecdotal evidence has been removed from the Counterspin site and the Bryan Bruce documentary from youtube. What have they got to hide? As I said before, there is a great deal of forensic evidence against Bain; none against his dad.

Offline Adam

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Re: David Bain similairities to Jeremy Bamber
« Reply #28 on: December 20, 2015, 12:12:AM »
Neither Jeremy nor David have confessed. It's strange that much anecdotal evidence has been removed from the Counterspin site and the Bryan Bruce documentary from youtube. What have they got to hide? As I said before, there is a great deal of forensic evidence against Bain; none against his dad.

What forensic evidence is there against Bain ?

I suppose of the millions of convicted criminals over the  centuries, there will always be some that will fight to get released. Despite lots of forensic evidence against them. They will be looking at a technicality.
'Only I know what really happened that night'.

Offline Steve_uk

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Re: David Bain similairities to Jeremy Bamber
« Reply #29 on: December 20, 2015, 12:18:AM »
What forensic evidence is there against Bain ?

I suppose of the millions of convicted criminals over the  centuries, there will always be some that will fight to get released. Despite lots of forensic evidence against them. They will be looking at a technicality.
http://davidbain.counterspin.co.nz/evidence-david