Who has more rights thirty years on: Jeremy or Colin?

[Jane]

I think she did lack the wherewithal to laugh it off as some children might have done as they advanced in their twenties. The fact that Sheila didn't speak all the way down to White House Farm on that final fateful journey suggests to me that she was still ill and apprehensive of things she would face upon arrival.

I see very little of Sheila's childhood as giving her reason to laugh at a later date. I think it's fairly well accepted that when adult children visit the parental homes of their childhood they revert to the children whom had been created during that time. That Sheila showed little joy during that journey MAY have reflected how she'd seen her childhood as being.

[Steve_uk]

Yes. There's a curious dichotomy here, I feel. We know that Sheila and Colin were a match made in hell, but Colin gave Sheila a reason to get away -in her mind- from the restraining influence of her mother. It also gave Colin a guaranteed financial source -at a cost to him- which meant he had no need to get a 'proper job' to support Sheila.

I don't think financial considerations were in Colin's mind at all-if anything he preferred the simple life without June's interference. He did see the sense of moving from the Hampstead flat with rising damp into Moreshead Mansions for the sake of the twins, not for himself.

[Jane]

I don't think financial considerations were in Colin's mind at all-if anything he preferred the simple life without June's interference. He did see the sense of moving from the Hampstead flat with rising damp into Moreshead Mansions for the sake of the twins, not for himself.

Steve, I know you have huge support for Colin and I'm not attempting to do more here than highlight how wrong was his and Sheila's relationship, despite that they may have been besotted with each other. I'm inclined to see Colin as gentle but somewhat idle character who would take the easy way out if he could find it. I concur that he'd have preferred life without June's interference, but wives from wealthy, middle class families don't come cheap. TWINS are an added strain. We have to remember that he was self employed. As such, if he wasn't doing commission work, he wasn't getting paid. Much as he may have resented their input, I'll bet there were times when he was very grateful for his wealthy inlaws.

[Steve_uk]

Steve, I know you have huge support for Colin and I'm not attempting to do more here than highlight how wrong was his and Sheila's relationship, despite that they may have been besotted with each other. I'm inclined to see Colin as gentle but somewhat idle character who would take the easy way out if he could find it. I concur that he'd have preferred life without June's interference, but wives from wealthy, middle class families don't come cheap. TWINS are an added strain. We have to remember that he was self employed. As such, if he wasn't doing commission work, he wasn't getting paid. Much as he may have resented their input, I'll bet there were times when he was very grateful for his wealthy inlaws.

I wouldn't say idle, just not materialistic in the slightest. In this sense I thought he was a good match with Sheila had she been well.  I agree that he would avoid confrontation if at all possible.

[Jane]

I wouldn't say idle, just not materialistic in the slightest. In this sense I thought he was a good match with Sheila had she been well.  I agree that he would avoid confrontation if at all possible.

We're probably splitting hairs over how we see him, but we'll possibly both agree that without Bamber input, Colin couldn't have afforded to be married to Sheila. Of course, a stronger character, than he, might have refused to get married but I think he did, at that point, love Sheila. I'd be curious to know just how much financial input he made towards the twins and how much he relied on his parents and the Bambers. Not for a moment am I suggesting he didn't adore his boys, but we all know that children can't be bought up on fresh air.

[maggie]

I don't think financial considerations were in Colin's mind at all-if anything he preferred the simple life without June's interference. He did see the sense of moving from the Hampstead flat with rising damp into Moreshead Mansions for the sake of the twins, not for himself.

I| got the impression from Colin's book that he wasn't particularly proud of himself back in those days.  It's all very well being a dreamer and not considering money but he was the father of twins and had two choices, to accept his responsibilities, get a job, any job and support his children or live off his wife's parent's money.  | have much admiration for how Colin dealt with the death of his boys and how he developed but he didn't cover himself in glory in the early days and admitted that himself.

[lookout]

Unfortunately,June's " interference " came in the shape of a regular allowance which she gave to Sheila,which was fortunate for Colin as it paid the bills.

[Jane]

I| got the impression from Colin's book that he wasn't particularly proud of himself back in those days.  It's all very well being a dreamer and not considering money but he was the father of twins and had two choices, to accept his responsibilities, get a job, any job and support his children or live off his wife's parent's money.  | have much admiration for how Colin dealt with the death of his boys and how he developed but he didn't cover himself in glory in the early days and admitted that himself.

Life is never black or white. Their marriage had resulted in a miscarriage which was the sole reason for the marriage in the first place, but it had gone on to produce the twins, who he adored. It doesn't however, negate that it was a marriage which, had it not been for the pregnancy which failed,would probably never have happened. It was, from the start, entirely unsuitable for Colin, and only marginally less so for Sheila. It's a tragedy and an irony that it took the twin's appalling deaths for Colin to grow into the person he subsequently became.

[Steve_uk]

Unfortunately,June's " interference " came in the shape of a regular allowance which she gave to Sheila,which was fortunate for Colin as it paid the bills.

There may have been an informal arrangement as regards finance but the regular allowance June was considering for Sheila (I forget the exact amount but Basil Cock was consulted and it was to be paid quarterly to her) never materialized due to the tragedy.

[lookout]

There may have been an informal arrangement as regards finance but the regular allowance June was considering for Sheila (I forget the exact amount but Basil Cock was consulted and it was to be paid quarterly to her) never materialized due to the tragedy.

So I suppose that the idea of an allowance furthered the " motive " in Jeremy's supposed killings ??
Something else that the relatives et al could sink their teeth into.

[Steve_uk]

So I suppose that the idea of an allowance furthered the " motive " in Jeremy's supposed killings ??
Something else that the relatives et al could sink their teeth into.

I've found the relevant reference in Carol Ann Lee's book under the "Growth" section. It says June felt that as Sheila would turn 28 on 18 July she should become more independent by managing money herself and to this end a deed of covenant was drawn up by Basil Cock to the sum of £3000pa to be paid in four quarterly instalments.

Of course this does give further momentum to the argument that Jeremy killed his family for financial motives, as he already had access to the safe key ( the document was waiting for June's signature), there were the bills for Sheila's hospital stay in March 1985 on Nevill's desk totalling £15,000, and in addition Colin mentions in his book that Sheila would have liked the twins to attend private school.

[Jane]

I've found the relevant reference in Carol Ann Lee's book under the "Growth" section. It says June felt that as Sheila would turn 28 on 18 July she should become more independent by managing money herself and to this end a deed of covenant was drawn up by Basil Cock to the sum of £3000pa to be paid in four quarterly instalments.

Of course this does give further momentum to the argument that Jeremy killed his family for financial motives, as he already had access to the safe key ( the document was waiting for June's signature), there were the bills for Sheila's hospital stay in March 1985 on Nevill's desk totalling £15,000, and in addition Colin mentions in his book that Sheila would have liked the twins to attend private school.

I doubt, even had Colin and Sheila still been married, that such funds for such would have been available. The Bambers would, from necessity, always been responsible for the expensive life style they'd bought up Sheila to expect would be hers.

[lookout]

I've found the relevant reference in Carol Ann Lee's book under the "Growth" section. It says June felt that as Sheila would turn 28 on 18 July she should become more independent by managing money herself and to this end a deed of covenant was drawn up by Basil Cock to the sum of £3000pa to be paid in four quarterly instalments.

Of course this does give further momentum to the argument that Jeremy killed his family for financial motives, as he already had access to the safe key ( the document was waiting for June's signature), there were the bills for Sheila's hospital stay in March 1985 on Nevill's desk totalling £15,000, and in addition Colin mentions in his book that Sheila would have liked the twins to attend private school.

Jeremy wouldn't have been the only one to have seen that latterly,and so it added more fuel to the fact that there was " reason 'a plenty "to have blamed him. It's known as Sod's Law.

There's a letter on the forum somewhere more or less expressing concern about Sheila's " failing mental health ".It was only written a couple of weeks before the tragedy by Dr.Ferguson,I think ? to another doctor and it " hinted " towards a further stay in hospital or words to that effect. I felt as though Ferguson had reached the end of the line as regards the best treatment etc. because of her anxious state. For £15,000,they could have done more !
I wish I could find it.

[Jane]

Jeremy wouldn't have been the only one to have seen that latterly,and so it added more fuel to the fact that there was " reason 'a plenty "to have blamed him. It's known as Sod's Law.

There's a letter on the forum somewhere more or less expressing concern about Sheila's " failing mental health ".It was only written a couple of weeks before the tragedy by Dr.Ferguson,I think ? to another doctor and it " hinted " towards a further stay in hospital or words to that effect. I felt as though Ferguson had reached the end of the line as regards the best treatment etc. because of her anxious state. For £15,000,they could have done more !
I wish I could find it.

Perhaps you can tell us who it is you're suggesting might have taken a sneaky peek at Nevill's and June's private papers. Perhaps you're suggesting that his faithful farm secretary would have passed the information on, OR that one of the wider family, you so revile, paid a sneaky visit.................to do exactly what, I wonder? Certainly not to learn what medical expenses Sheila was incurring. I can't think who, other than Jeremy, would have A) known the whole story B) been interested in the Bamber affairs. 

[Steve_uk]

To be fair it doesn't actually state that Jeremy had seen the deed of covenant or even got wind of June's future plans for Sheila, but given that Nevill told Barbara they should consider getting a new safe key and Jeremy's concerns that his mother might change her will in favour of the Church as narrated by Julie the finger of suspicion does lie in the direction of Jeremy wanting to claim his inheritance whilst it remained at its zenith.