Palm print on Bloodied Bible?

[guest2181]

Yes it is!

No it isn't.

[guest2181]

Just two. Given that none of us know what happened with any certainty during the shooting, it could have been any times from when it started, to until she died.

Seriously? No it couldn't. She didn't move after she was shot the first time.

[guest2181]

HA, HA!!!!! I'm NOT manufacturing anything - YOU ARE!! I'm actually saying what he wrote, you're trying to pretend you KNOW what you THINK he meant. I'm not interested in what you THINK he meant, I'm interested in what he SAID. Again he said "BOTH HANDS not contaminated APART FROM BLOOD" - no mention of wrists, that came later. So, in his initial notes, he mentions PLAMS and HANDS but NOT WRISTS!! In his later written version, just wrists.

He said the hands were contaminated with blood.

He said the fingers and palms were free from blood.

Could both of the above be true? Yes and clearly were. 

[Caroline]

You failed miserably at proving such.

In his report he wrote that blood was outside of her hands and that this transferred to her gown.  He said the insides were free of blood.

The only way for you to establish he wrote a contradictory note would be if you can provide a notation that states blood was INSIDE her hand not outside. You are unable to do so because he didn't write in his notes blood was inside her hands.

You choose to interpret "hands" as inside in order to manufacture a conflict.  It fails.

 

Ha, ha!! You have tried to invent things that were never said with your continues use of the word 'outer' - and are suggesting Venezis doesn't know the difference between a palm and a wrist. I think he might have had to have a good understanding of anatomy before qualifying and plam and wrist are two different things. He wrote both HANDS and PALM suggesting the stain on the nightdress came from the PALM!! A PALM is the INSIDE of a hand.

[Roch]

Oddly, he doesn't mention the Bamber case.

He did not carry out the post mortem on Diana:

https://books.google.co.uk/books?id=vZPJjwm6ITMC&pg=PT119&lpg=PT119&dq=autopsy+diana+pathologist&source=bl&ots=PqfSP5S-fK&sig=5oNgjHd7RTywYXjnJDv63Df-jcY&hl=en&sa=X&ved=0CC8Q6AEwAmoVChMI09brkdacxwIVgT8UCh3X_A-q#v=onepage&q=autopsy%20diana%20pathologist&f=false

[Caroline]

He said the hands were contaminated with blood.

He said the fingers and palms were free from blood.

Could both of the above be true? Yes and clearly were. 

Where in his written notes does he say fingers and palms were free from blood?

He also said that the stain on her nightdress came from her right PALM! How could her palm be free from blood when he said the staining appeared to have been transferred from her right palm?

[Roch]

Ha, ha!! You have tried to invent things that were never said with your continues use of the word 'outer' - and are suggesting Venezis doesn't know the difference between a palm and a wrist. I think he might have had to have a good understanding of anatomy before qualifying and plam and wrist are two different things. He wrote both HANDS and PALM suggesting the stain on the nightdress came from the PALM!! A PALM is the INSIDE of a hand.

I don't know how you can be chewed with it.    

[Caroline]

No it isn't.

Yes it is

[Caroline]

Seriously? No it couldn't. She didn't move after she was shot the first time.

Tell that to Scipio who has her plugging the first shot with her OUTER Palm!!  I haven't said she put the print on the bible after being shot. Not even sure who's blood it is.

[Caroline]

I don't know how you can be chewed with it.    

Just because 

[scipio_usmc]

Seriously? No it couldn't. She didn't move after she was shot the first time.

The notion that after she plugged her wound she opening the Bible ot look at while bracing for another shot is ridiculous and Jeremy wasn't handing her a Bible after the first shot he was busy readying for another shot which he delivered seconds later.

Vanezis drew a distinction between blood outside her hand and inside her hand.  Caroline chooses to ignore this and pretend he said blood inside her hand in his notes though he didn't.  She pretends this by pretending hands has to mean inside.  Obviously the hand has an outside and saying someone had blood on their hand could mean inside, outside or both.  In his report he was specific in saying it was outside not inside.  This blows Caroline's crap out of the water so she chooses to ignore it as she ignores the other police who saw her hands saying there was no blood inside, ignoring the photos show no blood and most important of all ignoring that those who actually inspected the Bible up close and person for the presence of prints found no prints of any kind in blood.  They are the ones in the position to know if it was a palm print they saw it close up, they were experts in the field and it was their job to see if such a print existed.

[scipio_usmc]

Tell that to Scipio who has her plugging the first shot with her OUTER Palm!!  I haven't said she put the print on the bible after being shot. Not even sure who's blood it is.

Whose blood could it be?  The only one who left a significant pool of blood apart from Sheila was Nevill.  No one else had a pool of blood that would coat a hand.  He didn't drag her down to the kitchen to stick her hand in it then carry her back up.Clearly the blood was her own regardless of whether it was a hand print or not.

The reason why I can't show you a lab report identifying whose blood it was is because the experts decided it was Sheila's blood, that got there from the carpet it wasn't a hand print and thus decided not to bother type testing it.  They viewed it as not being a palm print.  The only prints they found on the Bible were not in blood.

[Jane]

Tell that to Scipio who has her plugging the first shot with her OUTER Palm!!  I haven't said she put the print on the bible after being shot. Not even sure who's blood it is.

If I can put my two pen'th in here, is it possible that as she was sitting there, scared, he tossed a bible at her and told her to read it, shot her the first time, she put her hand -PALM- against the wound then instinctively grabbed for the bible -perhaps it had slipped. Voila! Instant PALM print.

[Caroline]

The notion that after she plugged her wound she opening the Bible ot look at while bracing for another shot is ridiculous and Jeremy wasn't handing her a Bible after the first shot he was busy readying for another shot which he delivered seconds later. Ha, ha!!!!!  Where did I say ANY of that??

Vanezis drew a distinction between blood outside her hand and inside her hand. No he didn't YOU did. Show me where he drew that distinction? Caroline chooses to ignore this and pretend he said blood inside her hand in his notes though he didn't. A PALM IS THE INSIDE OF THE HAND!!  She pretends this by pretending hands has to mean inside. NO BUT PALM DOES!!  Obviously the hand has an outside and saying someone had blood on their hand could mean inside, outside or both. But a palm is JUST the inside!   In his report he was specific in saying it was outside not inside. Not in his notes that he wrote JUST AFTER the autopsy! I'm not disputing that he later changed it This blows Caroline's crap out of the water so she chooses to ignore it as she ignores the other police who saw her hands saying there was no blood inside, ignoring the photos show no blood Which photo's show no blood? and most important of all ignoring that those who actually inspected the Bible up close and person for the presence of prints found no prints of any kind in blood Oh the experts - who were they again?.  They are the ones in the position to know if it was a palm print they saw it close up, they were experts they? in the field and it was their job to see if such a print existed. So is SUTHURST and look what happened to him 

So she has no blood on her hand and those 'finger shaped' stains are from her wrist? 

[scipio_usmc]

Ha, ha!! You have tried to invent things that were never said with your continues use of the word 'outer' - and are suggesting Venezis doesn't know the difference between a palm and a wrist. I think he might have had to have a good understanding of anatomy before qualifying and plam and wrist are two different things. He wrote both HANDS and PALM suggesting the stain on the nightdress came from the PALM!! A PALM is the INSIDE of a hand.

He didn't say anything about the stain being from the inside palm of her hand.  You are the one inventing things and it is pure nonsense you are inventing. 

You want us to believe Vanesis is so stupid he didn't realize he contradicted himself in his type written report by asserting the inside of her hands were free of blood and yet saying the inside of her hands had blood and she she thus left a palm print on her gown.  In order to try to get us to believe he is this stupid you suggest he put in his notes that she had blood inside her hand. 

Your straining is for nothing.  The experts do not agree with you and thus the defense never even tried making this argument. Nor would they be able to try at best dishonest propagandists can try to use this in an informal setting like their website to try false creating more suspicion of wrongdoing claiming Vanezis was asked to distort.

At the end of the day you are just engaging in the same crap you accuse reader and others of engaging in when you debate against them.