Author Topic: Michael Fielder Proven liar  (Read 7101 times)

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Offline Caroline

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Re: Michael Fielder Proven liar
« Reply #15 on: June 07, 2015, 03:24:AM »
Colin's claim that Jeremy used the same words to describe the pictures of Sheila to him that Fielder attributed to Bamber proves nothing at all. If it were the case that this proved the story then Colin's statement of 11th September by the same logic would prove some sort of manipulation on the part of EP.
   From his statement of 11th September:
     "During the following Friday Jeremy and Julie came to stay at my address for the weekend, they left on the Sunday.
     On the Friday night a discussion took place at my house between myself, Jeremy, Julie(Jeremy's girlfriend) and Janice Flowers(an ex girlfriend of mine).
     We were trying to put together the facts of what had happened at the farm that night. As a result Jeremy told us that after he'd left during the conversation about fostering the children he'd gone home. He stated that he'd been woken up by the phone at about 3am by Mr. Bamber saying something like "Sheila's gone berserk with a gun"."
     According to EP the "gone berserk with a gun" quote was never made by Jeremy or Neville but in fact was paraphrasing from one officer to another. How coincidental that Jeremy then uses the same words to Colin that West allegedly paraphrased to Bonnet.
     Does that prove anything in your world or does it only apply when it suits your agenda?

It proves absolutely nothing whatsoever and the only one with an agenda here is you - which is why you often sift through my posts - I seem to be the only person who rattles your cage. You are clearly bothered by the arguments I make - I should be flattered but I also find it a bit weird. You try too hard gringo - Jeremy tried to sell the pictures and nothing will change that!
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Offline Caroline

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Re: Michael Fielder Proven liar
« Reply #16 on: June 07, 2015, 03:26:AM »
If it was JUST The Sun, I would be sceptical. But Colin backs it up - I believe Colin over ANY supporter who's mantra is JEREMY GOOD. EVERYONE ELSE BAD.   supporters deny it more than Bamber ever has.  ;D

Exactly Mat - gringo knows that Bamber tried to sell the pictures but he'd never admit it because it shows that he was capable of some pretty vile behaviour!
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Online gringo

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Re: Michael Fielder Proven liar
« Reply #17 on: June 07, 2015, 03:43:AM »
If it was JUST The Sun, I would be sceptical. But Colin backs it up - I believe Colin over ANY supporter who's mantra is JEREMY GOOD. EVERYONE ELSE BAD.   supporters deny it more than Bamber ever has.  ;D
  Colin does not back it up Mat because he can't. He wasn't at the meeting with Fielder. He attributes the same words to Jeremy that Fielder does in his article. We have now established that Fielder is a proven liar. Previously you have claimed that Fielder cannot be tarred with the same brush as other low rent hacks because he hadn't been shown to be dishonest or a liar. That position is no longer tenable as Fielder is now known to be a sleazy lying hack.
    It is much easier to believe that a known liar, and falsifier of evidence on behalf of the authorities, who works for a publication with a sorry catalogue of proven criminal collusion with police officers knowingly lied and falsified statements colluded with EP to smear their suspect. It's their MO. Read the first post and research it a bit more for yourself.
    It is idiotic to believe that Bamber would attempt to sell nude/pornographic pictures to one of the papers that was already running negative stories on him.
    He has claimed that the meeting was to put his side of the story because of the negative press he was receiving. It is just beyond belief that he would attempt to sell the pictures to a newspaper that was already trashing him.
   

Online gringo

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Re: Michael Fielder Proven liar
« Reply #18 on: June 07, 2015, 04:14:AM »
It proves absolutely nothing whatsoever and the only one with an agenda here is you - which is why you often sift through my posts - I seem to be the only person who rattles your cage. You are clearly bothered by the arguments I make - I should be flattered but I also find it a bit weird. You try too hard gringo - Jeremy tried to sell the pictures and nothing will change that!
  No sifting of any posts is required to know that your argument is that Jeremy tried to sell the pictures and that this is proven by the fact that he allegedly used the same words to describe the pictures to Fielder as he had to Colin. You repeat it parrot fashion every other post so no sifting required, Caroline.
    So how does Jeremy allegedly using the same words to Colin and Fielder prove that he tried to sell porn pictures of his dead sister?, but Colin attributing the same words to Jeremy as the police had supposedly paraphrased on a log prove nothing? Why is one suspicious and not the other? How is it that you are not suspicious of a story by proven serial liars that has no corroboration despite your spurious claim that Colin can in any way prove this story. He can't, he wasn't there and the alleged coincidence of them being described in the same way doesn't prove a thing. It is desperate that all that is left of the argument now is one piece of, at best, circumstantial evidence.
   I can assure you that you amuse me (albeit unintentionally) rather than rattle my cage. Your arguments, such as they are, consist largely of ad hom attacks and misrepresentations of others views rather than actual debate.
 
   

Offline scipio_usmc

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Re: Michael Fielder Proven liar
« Reply #19 on: June 07, 2015, 06:03:AM »
      Much has been of the allegations made by Michael Fielder. Those who believe Jeremy Bamber innocent largely disbelieve Fielder's story on the grounds that he plied his trade for such a disreputable rag and his story does not really appear credible and in fact bears an uncanny resemblance to the type of stories that appeared in the Sun that were nothing more than propaganda pieces on behalf of those in authority.
      Those who believe Bamber guilty tend to believe Fielder. I have said before that even if I believed him guilty that this story is so unbelievable and it's source so unreliable that I would dismiss it anyway.
      Proponents of Bamber's guilt claim that just because Fielder worked for the Sun that it doesn't prove that he is a liar and his willingness to give a witness statement and to appear on a trashy documentary repeating his story somehow supports his claims.
      After a little research on Fielder it appears that guilty supporters ought now to perhaps think twice before defending him.
      The following is an example of Fielder's "journalism" or what more objective observers would describe as propagandising for those in authority.
     On 6th March 1988 three IRA members were killed by a SAS squad in Gibraltar. The killings caused much noise and controversy at the time and were reported on with the usual restraint that you expect from the tabloid press. MOD and British Government press briefings were reported uncritically by most of the media without question claiming the men were armed and were in possession of a 500lb bomb. A documentary was aired two months after the killings called "Death on the Rock" which cast doubt on the official claims.
     The following is lifted verbatim from "Murder on the Rock".
     "Of all the civilian witnesses to the Gibraltar murders, Carmen Proetta's evidence was potentially some of the most damning for the government.
  Carmen Proetta told Death on the Rock that she had seen McCann and Farrell shot without warning with their hands in the air. As soon as her evidence became publicly known she was subjected to a campaign of threats and a barrage of press lies. The pressure on her was so enormous, that despite being one of the most strongly determined of the witnesses to speak out, she told the inquest:
  "Let me tell you one thing, sir, if this happened again I would not be here to give evidence"
  The day after Death on the Rock was broadcast, her husband received a phone call from a man claiming to be a policeman. He told him that the family's lives would be "made a misery". The Proetta children also received threats.
  But it was left to the British press to apply the real pressure. For no other reason than that she had inconvenient testimony, the press, particularly the Murdoch owned press, viciously attacked her. The Sunday Times launched a series of articles purporting to show that her story was untrue and saying that other witnesses had called her testimony ridiculous. This, like virtually every other word published by the Sunday Times about Gibraltar, was a pack of lies.
  The Sun, however, went even further. Two days after Death on the Rock was broadcast they printed a front page with a picture of  Carmen Proetta headlined "Tart of Gib". It said in bold letters: "Sun discovers shock truth about IRA witness Carmen... she's an ex prostitute, runs an escort agency and is married to a sleazy drug peddler". As well as suddenly making Carmen an "IRA" witness they also said that both she and her husband were anti British.
  As is normal the Sun had concocted a story based on distortions and outright lies. For example, the escort agency was a tourist agency and Proetta's only connection was that she lent her name as a director in order that the company could comply with Spanish law.....
  In December 1988 Mrs Proetta was awarded £50,000 damages against the Sun. However this came too late to undo the damage done to her evidence at the inquest. Not only was she put under enormous pressure but her testimony, when it finally came at the inquest, must have been devalued in the eyes of the jury. The British press, remembering the "Tart of Gib" headline were more interested in her split skirt than her evidence.

   The Sun reporter who wrote the "Tart of Gib" story was none other than Michael Fielding.
   It is now established that Fielder is a liar who worked for a newspaper that peddled lies on behalf of the authorities and that he in fact peddled those lies on their behalf.
   We are then expected to believe that Jeremy Bamber having killed all of his family then attempted to sell nude/pornographic pictures of his dead sister to a reporter who worked for a news organisation that routinely colluded with the police to pervert the course of justice all on the say so of a proven liar and professional smearer who worked for a newspaper that routinely lies on behalf of those in power.
  The defence that Fielder has never been shown to be a liar is no longer valid. He has knowingly lied about and smeared innocent people on behalf of powerful vested interests and this has been established by the successful libel action of Carmen Proetta. The paper that he worked for routinely lie on behalf of the police and powerful interests.
  Fielder's word and that of the Sun are both worth less than nothing and those who believe the Fielder allegations do so because they believe it helps their cause rather than based on an honest and objective appraisal of what is known.
  Believing Fielder flies in the face of reason. There are more sleaze and lies that he is involved in but I am sure that posters can discover this for themselves.

What I see is that you and others who so desperately want to pretend Jeremy is innocent will do anything to try to pretend he would do nothing wrong.

Which is more likely- correctly guessing that Jeremy had nude pics of his sister and making up tha the wanted to sell them or Jeremy actually looking to try to sell them?

You want to talk logic well logic suggests someone would not simply make up out of the blue that someone has nude pics of his sister and offering to sell them.

But your posts are anything but logical and biased beyond all rationality so no real surprises here. 
Politeness is organized indifference- Paul Valéry

Offline Adam

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Re: Michael Fielder Proven liar
« Reply #20 on: June 07, 2015, 08:48:AM »
I appreciate supporters have to not believe Fielder. The story being true strongly highlights a guilty Jeremy.

But The Sun wrote a front page article. Fielder gave a witness statement and was prepared to testify. He also repeated his story on TV 20 years later. Not showing a flicker of hesitation.

The story is true.
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Offline Adam

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Re: Michael Fielder Proven liar
« Reply #21 on: June 07, 2015, 08:52:AM »
The OS confirms the meeting happened.

It confirms nude pictures were discussed. Jeremy claimed he didn't have any. This was a lie as CC says. The Sun also published a front page article saying he tried to sell nude pictures to them.
'Only I know what really happened that night'.

Offline susan

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Re: Michael Fielder Proven liar
« Reply #22 on: June 07, 2015, 09:07:AM »
The OS confirms the meeting happened.

It confirms nude pictures were discussed. Jeremy claimed he didn't have any. This was a lie as CC says. The Sun also published a front page article saying he tried to sell nude pictures to them.

Adam I agree with you and as I keep saying how did the Sun know about these pictures if they were not told so it had to be Jeremy or Colin and I know where my money would go.

Offline Caroline

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Re: Michael Fielder Proven liar
« Reply #23 on: June 07, 2015, 10:35:AM »
  No sifting of any posts is required to know that your argument is that Jeremy tried to sell the pictures and that this is proven by the fact that he allegedly used the same words to describe the pictures to Fielder as he had to Colin. You repeat it parrot fashion every other post so no sifting required, Caroline.
    So how does Jeremy allegedly using the same words to Colin and Fielder prove that he tried to sell porn pictures of his dead sister?, but Colin attributing the same words to Jeremy as the police had supposedly paraphrased on a log prove nothing? Why is one suspicious and not the other? How is it that you are not suspicious of a story by proven serial liars that has no corroboration despite your spurious claim that Colin can in any way prove this story. He can't, he wasn't there and the alleged coincidence of them being described in the same way doesn't prove a thing. It is desperate that all that is left of the argument now is one piece of, at best, circumstantial evidence.
   I can assure you that you amuse me (albeit unintentionally) rather than rattle my cage. Your arguments, such as they are, consist largely of ad hom attacks and misrepresentations of others views rather than actual debate.
 
 

I'm not just talking about this topic gringo, you regularly 'sift' though my posts and others have noticed too! However, what you have written has nothing to do with the Bamber case, it's a distraction "Look at this everyone, he was involved in this story so must be lying about Bamber". There is NO logic in that whatsoever because there are other people (INCLUDING JEREMY) who corroborate the event happened. You're wasting your time trying to deny it and you simply sound fanatical and desperate.
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Online lookout

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Re: Michael Fielder Proven liar
« Reply #24 on: June 07, 2015, 10:36:AM »
There was good reason why June didn't approve of CC,and for JM for that matter.Perhaps she could see right through the pair of them----------who turned out to be traitors.

BTW,I couldn't give a flying fig about any backlash because it's how I see it !!

Offline Caroline

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Re: Michael Fielder Proven liar
« Reply #25 on: June 07, 2015, 10:36:AM »
Adam I agree with you and as I keep saying how did the Sun know about these pictures if they were not told so it had to be Jeremy or Colin and I know where my money would go.

Colin was obviously part of the BIG conspiracy Susan  ::)
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Online gringo

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Re: Michael Fielder Proven liar
« Reply #26 on: June 07, 2015, 01:11:PM »
What I see is that you and others who so desperately want to pretend Jeremy is innocent will do anything to try to pretend he would do nothing wrong.

Which is more likely- correctly guessing that Jeremy had nude pics of his sister and making up tha the wanted to sell them or Jeremy actually looking to try to sell them?

You want to talk logic well logic suggests someone would not simply make up out of the blue that someone has nude pics of his sister and offering to sell them.

But your posts are anything but logical and biased beyond all rationality so no real surprises here.
  Why do you assume that the Sun would have to guess about nude pics? The Sun would have found out about them. Read the first post, Fielder is a proven liar and fabricator of evidence. All you have to "prove" this story is the word of Fielder.
    Colin had spoken to the police about the pictures so I don't think that Fielder "guessed" that there were some. The smearing of witnesses/suspects on behalf of the police was the MO of the Sun and it has been shown that Fielder was one of their attack dogs but you think it logical that on this occasion they are telling the truth, in the Sun.

Offline Adam

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Re: Michael Fielder Proven liar
« Reply #27 on: June 07, 2015, 01:24:PM »
I am sorry but everything fits.

Bamber had been spending a lot of money. He was putting it on the farm account.  Which he couldn't keep doing.

The selling off of items to Sotherby's and the finalising of the will was a long way off. He needed more money to continue living the life he wanted.

It is also fact that he had been checking out his new London base. And would have come across photos of Sheila. As CC confirmed.

The OS confirms the meeting happened, Brett having contacts at The Sun. A front page story was then published.

Fielding was prepared to testify and repeated the story 20 years later.


 
« Last Edit: June 07, 2015, 01:31:PM by Adam »
'Only I know what really happened that night'.

Offline maggie

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Re: Michael Fielder Proven liar
« Reply #28 on: June 07, 2015, 01:25:PM »
What I see is that you and others who so desperately want to pretend Jeremy is innocent will do anything to try to pretend he would do nothing wrong.

Which is more likely- correctly guessing that Jeremy had nude pics of his sister and making up tha the wanted to sell them or Jeremy actually looking to try to sell them?

You want to talk logic well logic suggests someone would not simply make up out of the blue that someone has nude pics of his sister and offering to sell them.

But your posts are anything but logical and biased beyond all rationality so no real surprises here.
I cannot agree that anyone is 'desperate' to prove JB's innocence, unless they are in some way emotionally attached to him and I don't believe most supporters or people unsure one way or the other, are emotionally attached to him, have never met him and are never likely to.  It is just  difference of opinion imo. 
There is nothing biased or illogical about disbelieving anything the Sun newspaper prints and with respect scipio you live in the USA and are not maybe quite as clued up about that rag, especially back in the 1980s. 
I can see there is a valid argument from Colin's account in his book but you need to also accept there is a valid argument that the Sun lied, that's what they did, they lied for the police and for the government, small wonder people aren't happy to take anything they wrote as a truth.

Offline Adam

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Re: Michael Fielder Proven liar
« Reply #29 on: June 07, 2015, 01:26:PM »
Why would Fielding be prepared to testify ?

He had nothing to gain, and everything to lose. He would have also discredited The Sun newspaper, the paper he represented.

Perhaps he had taped the conversation, it has been known for reporters to do this. 
« Last Edit: June 07, 2015, 01:30:PM by Adam »
'Only I know what really happened that night'.