Russia - worrying?

[David1819]

Well argued Gringo.  A very fair assessment.

How much Crack Cocaine did you have to smoke while reading Gringos ramblings to conclude its a fair assessment?  Critisizing America for interventions yet supporting Russia when it does the exact same thing. Gringo enthusiastically points out the wrongdoings of the USA but when Russia does the exact same thing he paints a rosy picture finds excuses for Russia or goes into complete denial.



America Evil because its friendly with nondemocratic country, When Russia is friendly with nondemocratic country admit nothing deny everything avoid reality.

America Evil because it invades Afghanistan - But Russia also invaded Afghanistan? admit nothing deny everything avoid reality.

America Evil because it Invades Iraq, But when Russia invades Georgia admit nothing deny everything avoid reality.

America Evil because it kills Islamists in Pakistan, But when Russia Kills Islamists in Chechnya admit nothing deny everything avoid reality.

America Evil because it has done A B and C etc But  Russia is good because it has done A B and C etc

Gringo mentality in a nutshell

[susan]

How much Crack Cocaine did you have to smoke while reading Gringos ramblings to conclude its a fair assessment?  Critisizing America for interventions yet supporting Russia when it does the exact same thing. Gringo enthusiastically points out the wrongdoings of the USA but when Russia does the exact same thing he paints a rosy picture finds excuses for Russia or goes into complete denial.



America Evil because its friendly with nondemocratic country, When Russia is friendly with nondemocratic country admit nothing deny everything avoid reality.

America Evil because it invades Afghanistan - But Russia also invaded Afghanistan? admit nothing deny everything avoid reality.

America Evil because it Invades Iraq, But when Russia invades Georgia admit nothing deny everything avoid reality.

America Evil because it kills Islamists in Pakistan, But when Russia Kills Islamists in Chechnya admit nothing deny everything avoid reality.

America Evil because it has done A B and C etc But  Russia is good because it has done A B and C etc

Gringo mentality in a nutshell

David
I think the opening of your post to ngb is rude and quite insulting he has every right to agree with Gringo without the aid of Crack or any other substance. 

[buddy]

Putin is corrupt.

[maggie]

Putin is corrupt.

They're ALL corrupt imo Buddy but imo some are more corrupt than others.
 

[ngb1066]

How much Crack Cocaine did you have to smoke while reading Gringos ramblings to conclude its a fair assessment?

That is an offensive comment and I object to it.

Critisizing America for interventions yet supporting Russia when it does the exact same thing. Gringo enthusiastically points out the wrongdoings of the USA but when Russia does the exact same thing he paints a rosy picture finds excuses for Russia or goes into complete denial.

It is not exactly the same thing.  There is a fundamental difference between the interventions of Russia and those of the USA and its allies and that has been the case for many years.



America Evil because its friendly with nondemocratic country, When Russia is friendly with nondemocratic country admit nothing deny everything avoid reality.

America Evil because it invades Afghanistan - But Russia also invaded Afghanistan?

The Soviet Union did not invade Afghanistan.  As wth Syria they were invited to give support by the democratically elected government of Afghanistan.  With Soviet support the Afghan government made huge progress.  This was thwarted and destroyed by the USA and its allies arming a bunch of fundamentalist nutters who later morphed into Al Quada and the Taliban.  They were of course "freedom fighters" then! 

admit nothing deny everything avoid reality.

America Evil because it Invades Iraq, But when Russia invades Georgia admit nothing deny everything avoid reality.

America Evil because it kills Islamists in Pakistan, But when Russia Kills Islamists in Chechnya admit nothing deny everything avoid reality.

America Evil because it has done A B and C etc But  Russia is good because it has done A B and C etc

Gringo mentality in a nutshell

I do believe you actually believe this right wing rubbish you spout! 

[buddy]

They're ALL corrupt imo Buddy but imo some are more corrupt than others.

Putin has spent millions on a holiday home, which no doubt he will retire to. I cannot believe that the Russian people have swallowed his deceit.

[buddy]

Our politicians are not squeaky clean either.

[David1819]

That is an offensive comment and I object to it.

Apologies if your sense of humor didn't register it

It is not exactly the same thing.  There is a fundamental difference between the interventions of Russia and those of the USA and its allies and that has been the case for many years.

American intervention = protect its interests and expand its influence

Russian intervention = protect its interests and expand its influence

I do believe you actually believe this right wing rubbish you spout!

I don't even subscribe to the left wing/right wing view of the world. I don't know why you assume I do.

[nugnug]

Putin has spent millions on a holiday home, which no doubt he will retire to. I cannot believe that the Russian people have swallowed his deceit.

that doesnt make him that much diffrent from any other world leader.

[gringo]

How much Crack Cocaine did you have to smoke while reading Gringos ramblings to conclude its a fair assessment?  Critisizing America for interventions yet supporting Russia when it does the exact same thing. Gringo enthusiastically points out the wrongdoings of the USA but when Russia does the exact same thing he paints a rosy picture finds excuses for Russia or goes into complete denial.



America Evil because its friendly with nondemocratic country, When Russia is friendly with nondemocratic country admit nothing deny everything avoid reality.

America Evil because it invades Afghanistan - But Russia also invaded Afghanistan? admit nothing deny everything avoid reality.

America Evil because it Invades Iraq, But when Russia invades Georgia admit nothing deny everything avoid reality.

America Evil because it kills Islamists in Pakistan, But when Russia Kills Islamists in Chechnya admit nothing deny everything avoid reality.

America Evil because it has done A B and C etc But  Russia is good because it has done A B and C etc

Gringo mentality in a nutshell

You have no idea what you are talking about.

  That you compare the US invasion of Iraq with Russia's intervention in Georgia shows how ill informed and brainwashed you are. Apart from anything else the aftermath of the supposed Russian invasions are nothing compared to the anarchy and failed states which are the hallmark of Western interventions. The differences between Iraq and Georgia were explained to you much earlier in this thread but it was clearly over your head. You have said nothing to rebut the previous points made and instead just resort to poorly spelt and grammatically incorrect insults while repeating the same discredited mantra.
       You are blinded by jingoism and obviously easily distracted from the crimes of your own government. Do as you're told and worry about Putin and Russia and Ukraine and don't concern yourself with what your own government is doing in your name.
    What do you think about the UK arms exports and training to Saudi Arabia, given the international outcry over the Saudi war crimes in Yemen? Why are you more outraged by Putin than your own government?
    Do you think, on the evidence available, that the US/UK have overtly or covertly armed and funded jihadists?
    Do you think, on the evidence available, that Russia has overtly or covertly armed and funded Islamist jihadists?
   
    Do you have nothing to say to defend US/UK et al and their invasion of Syria?
    Do you think that the Russian government lied to justify their intervention in Georgia?
    How about the US/UK governments? Did they lie to justify their intervention in Iraq?
    If you could answer the above questions honestly then you would know the difference between recent Russian and US/NATO interventions but you will offer no coherent argument and just resort to name calling because that's all you have.

[nugnug]

i cant say im a fan of ethere side really.

[David1819]

  That you compare the US invasion of Iraq with Russia's intervention in Georgia shows how ill informed and brainwashed you are. Apart from anything else the aftermath of the supposed Russian invasions are nothing compared to the anarchy and failed states which are the hallmark of Western interventions. The differences between Iraq and Georgia were explained to you much earlier in this thread but it was clearly over your head. You have said nothing to rebut the previous points made and instead just resort to poorly spelt and grammatically incorrect insults while repeating the same discredited mantra.
       You are blinded by jingoism and obviously easily distracted from the crimes of your own government. Do as you're told and worry about Putin and Russia and Ukraine and don't concern yourself with what your own government is doing in your name.
    What do you think about the UK arms exports and training to Saudi Arabia, given the international outcry over the Saudi war crimes in Yemen? Why are you more outraged by Putin than your own government?
    Do you think, on the evidence available, that the US/UK have overtly or covertly armed and funded jihadists?
    Do you think, on the evidence available, that Russia has overtly or covertly armed and funded Islamist jihadists?
   
    Do you have nothing to say to defend US/UK et al and their invasion of Syria?
    Do you think that the Russian government lied to justify their intervention in Georgia?
    How about the US/UK governments? Did they lie to justify their intervention in Iraq?
    If you could answer the above questions honestly then you would know the difference between recent Russian and US/NATO interventions but you will offer no coherent argument and just resort to name calling because that's all you have.

America Evil because it has military bases in Germany and South Korea. But Russia is good so find excuses for Russian military bases in Armenia and Vietnam.

America Evil because it uses waterboarding to interrogate people, But Russia is good so ignore Russia poisons people with radioactive plutonium.

America Evil because its friendly with undemocratic Saudi Arabia. Ignore fact that Russia is friendly with undemocratic China because Russia is Good and America evil

Gringo logic in a nutshell

[gringo]

America Evil because it has military bases in Germany and South Korea. But Russia is good so find excuses for Russian military bases in Armenia and Vietnam.

America Evil because it uses waterboarding to interrogate people, But Russia is good so ignore Russia poisons people with radioactive plutonium.

America Evil because its friendly with undemocratic Saudi Arabia. Ignore fact that Russia is friendly with undemocratic China because Russia is Good and America evil

Gringo logic in a nutshell

  To address your points in order David,
    Seeing as you are comparing US and Russian military presence beyond their borders I will help flesh out your argument with the bits that you appear to have overlooked.
    The US has over 700 bases worldwide with a presence in 156 countries. A total of over 250,000 US military personnel are deployed outside the US.
    Russia has around 10 foreign bases and around 20,000 military personnel deployed abroad.
    Your argument seems to overlook this information as if it has no relevance. Does this added information   not matter to your "logic"?
    Your second point is equally lacking in context and detail. It's almost as if you realise that too many facts make your views look like ill informed tosh. Again I will help you with the details that you missed and attempt to add context to your rather limited view.
     The US did, as you correctly point out, waterboard people during interrogations. You forgot about the illegal rendition programme, the torture at Abu Ghraib, the ongoing outrage of Guantanamo bay.
     Google US torture and find out for yourself the extent of US torture during their so called "War on terror".
     You compare this to a spy being assassinated in murky circumstances. Even if you believe that the Russians killed Litvinenko, how do you compare the killing of a spy with mass torture and illegal rendition programmes? Are you seriously drawing a moral equivalence between Litvinenko's killing and industrial use of torture?
      Your comparison demonstrates the intellectual rigour that you apply to your "research".
      The best that can be said for the third point that you raise is that is equally as well thought through as your previous two and just shows the paucity of your reasoning skills.
      Saudi Arabia being an ally should be intolerable because of their role in supporting Islamist jihadists to overthrow secular Arab governments and their promotion worldwide of their own particularly extreme religious bigotry, Wahhabism. Again google it David and wise up. Saudi Arabia are also, as I previously pointed out to you, being condemned worldwide for their war crimes in Yemen. The UK is supporting those ongoing crimes with not just arms sales, but seconded British personnel deployed with the Saudi Forces.
      My problem, and everybody else's, with Saudi Arabia is not because of their lack of democracy. You just made that up because you had no defence to our support of the Saudis, so mention democracy and throw in China. You're not very good at this David and are way out of your depth.
     The final sentence of your poorly constructed supposed rebuttal simply highlights your poor understanding of the subject. After putting forward such "context free" facts and attempting to pass them off as a coherent argument makes you poorly qualified to pass judgement on the logic and reasoning skills of anyone.
     I think it is pretty clear whose logic is faulty.

[David1819]

you're not very good at this David and are way out of your depth.
The final sentence of your poorly constructed supposed rebuttal simply highlights your poor understanding of the subject. After putting forward such "context free" facts and attempting to pass them off as a coherent argument makes you poorly qualified to pass judgement on the logic and reasoning skills of anyone.
I think it is pretty clear whose logic is faulty
 

I am reluctant to waste my time arguing with someone who denies facts of the situation, believes in or resorts to absurd conspiracies and has a inconsistent contradictory view of the world. Thus I tend to give you mocking or satirical answers

Seeing as you are comparing US and Russian military presence beyond their borders I will help flesh out your argument with the bits that you appear to have overlooked.
    The US has over 700 bases worldwide with a presence in 156 countries. A total of over 250,000 US military personnel are deployed outside the US.
    Russia has around 10 foreign bases and around 20,000 military personnel deployed abroad.
    Your argument seems to overlook this information as if it has no relevance. Does this added information   not matter to your "logic"?
    Your second point is equally lacking in context and detail. It's almost as if you realise that too many facts make your views look like ill informed tosh. Again I will help you with the details that you missed and attempt to add context to your rather limited view.
 

The US has 662 overseas bases in 38 foreign countries. It has a military presence in over 150 countries it does not mean they have an actual base in those countries.  In 56 of all 150 countries, the U.S. has less than 10 active-duty personnel present.

Still far more than Russia, but you are under the impression that the US does this out of aggression, That is false, the US does what it does because it can, The US has the manpower and the wealth to create a military presence across the globe. Russia has fewer bases and less military power not because its good or the good guy but because it cannot match the United States, Russia does not have the population size, wealth or resources to create a military like the US does. If Russia did have the manpower and could afford to do so it would adopt a US style military strategy. And even if Russia did have the capability it would never build as many aircraft carries or foreign bases as the US because of Russias size and location it makes such a strategy unnecessary. Russia has Europe and Asia on its door steps already

[gringo]

I am reluctant to waste my time arguing with someone who denies facts of the situation, believes in or resorts to absurd conspiracies and has a inconsistent contradictory view of the world. Thus I tend to give you mocking or satirical answers

The US has 662 overseas bases in 38 foreign countries. It has a military presence in over 150 countries it does not mean they have an actual base in those countries.  In 56 of all 150 countries, the U.S. has less than 10 active-duty personnel present.

Still far more than Russia, but you are under the impression that the US does this out of aggression, That is false, the US does what it does because it can, The US has the manpower and the wealth to create a military presence across the globe. Russia has fewer bases and less military power not because its good or the good guy but because it cannot match the United States, Russia does not have the population size, wealth or resources to create a military like the US does. If Russia did have the manpower and could afford to do so it would adopt a US style military strategy. And even if Russia did have the capability it would never build as many aircraft carries or foreign bases as the US because of Russias size and location it makes such a strategy unnecessary. Russia has Europe and Asia on its door steps already

    You are reluctant to enter into debate and instead resort to insult because you have no argument, as you have demonstrated. You talk of conspiracies incessantly but have as yet been unable to point out which parts of my posts are conspiracy theory, despite me asking you for clarification many times.
    You are too ill informed to enter into debate on the issue hence your insults.
    The point of the comparisons between Russian and US military presence outside of their own borders was as I stated in the post. I was adding facts and context to your puerile comparisons earlier and emphasizing that your comparisons were lacking the necessary details. Do you even read the reply before resorting to insults, or is it above your reading level?
    Given the amount of invasions and wars that the US has been and are involved in, I would be interested to hear how you have concluded that I am wrong to have the impression that the US acts out of aggression. You believe that the US has a large military presence "because it can" and because the US "has the manpower and the wealth".
     Are you serious? Is this your considered opinion as to why the US has such massive military presence abroad?How old are you David?, because this is an incredibly naive view.
      You think that the reason for the US having over a quarter of a million military personnel stationed abroad in over 150 countries and spending more on arms than the next nine largest spenders combined is because the US had to give all those people something to do, what with all that manpower.I wonder who came up with the ruse of invading and bombing lots of countries so they could use lots of this seemingly spare wealth. What a land of milk and honey the USA must be. 
      I hope that all those foreign people who have been slaughtered and their surviving families, all those people who were tortured as part of the US "war on terror" and the millions of displaced people realise that the US doesn't bomb and invade them out of aggression. What would give them that impression, David?
      They would have to be conspiracy nuts to believe that the US has any aggressive intent wouldn't they David?
       Unsurprisingly you failed to answer any of the questions asked of you so we'll try again.
       Seeing as you believe that there is some equivalence between Russia's actions in Georgia and US/UK action in Iraq do you consider that Putin lied in order to justify the Russian intervention in Georgia?
       Do you believe that the US and UK governments lied in order to justify their intervention in Iraq?
       In your opinion have Russia armed and funded Islamist jihadists and used them as proxies to destabilise/overthrow "unfriendly" governments? 
       How about the US, do you think that they have armed and funded Islamist jihadists and used them as proxies to destabilise/overthrow "unfriendly" governments?
       Answer those questions honestly and it should be obvious, even to one as myopic as you, that the US are the biggest threat to world peace and order.