Author Topic: Russia-Ukraine ICJ ruling  (Read 358 times)

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Offline gringo

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Russia-Ukraine ICJ ruling
« on: February 01, 2024, 02:16:AM »
      Almost, if not entirely, ignored in all western MSM today was the final judgement of the ICJ in the case brought by Ukraine against Russia. Given the ruling, this is not at all surprising. Ukraine instigated proceedings against Russia in 2017. Today the final judgement was delivered;

   " Kyiv had accused Moscow of being a “terrorist state” whose support for pro-Russian separatists in eastern Ukraine was a harbinger of the full-fledged 2022 invasion.

It wanted Russia to compensate all civilians caught up in the conflict, as well as victims from Malaysia Airlines flight MH17, which was shot down over eastern Ukraine.

But the International Court of Justice (ICJ) tossed out most of Ukraine’s pleas, ruling only that Russia was “failing to take measures to investigate facts... regarding persons who have allegedly committed an offence.”

The ICJ “rejects all other submissions made by the Ukraine,” it said in a statement.
"

       

Offline gringo

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Re: Russia-Ukraine ICJ ruling
« Reply #1 on: February 01, 2024, 04:17:PM »
      The dismissal of the compensation demand for the downing of MH17 will re-open that can of worms. We may get to the bottom of who really shot down MH17. The "Kangaroo Court" in the Netherlands and its "rulings" have been dismissed by the ICJ with this ruling. The Malaysians, whose plane was shot down, maybe will be allowed to take part in any real "impartial and independent investigation". They were excluded from the shameful proceedings in the Netherlands which relied almost entirely on Ukrainian SBU "evidence". The proceedings were an affront to truth or justice. Seems the ICJ agree.

Offline gringo

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Re: Russia-Ukraine ICJ ruling
« Reply #2 on: February 01, 2024, 04:20:PM »
     Informative piece on the MH17 shootdown and sham proceedings from 2017 by the late great Robert Parry;

https://consortiumnews.com/2016/09/28/troubling-gaps-in-the-new-mh-17-report/

Offline gringo

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Re: Russia-Ukraine ICJ ruling
« Reply #3 on: February 01, 2024, 05:12:PM »
    https://consortiumnews.com/2024/02/01/icj-rules-against-ukraine-v-russia-on-terrorism-mh17/


    From the above;

Consequently, the alleged supply of weapons to various armed groups operating in Ukraine… fall outside the material scope” of the anti-terrorism financing convention, the Court ruled. The Court also said it had no evidence to show that any of the armed militias in Donbass fighting against the government could be characterized as terrorist groups.

The ICJ found only that Russia was, “failing to take measures to investigate facts… regarding persons who have allegedly committed an offense.”  It added that the court “rejects all other submissions made by the Ukraine
.” [/b]

     

Offline Steve_uk

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Re: Russia-Ukraine ICJ ruling
« Reply #4 on: February 01, 2024, 07:31:PM »
    https://consortiumnews.com/2024/02/01/icj-rules-against-ukraine-v-russia-on-terrorism-mh17/


    From the above;

Consequently, the alleged supply of weapons to various armed groups operating in Ukraine… fall outside the material scope” of the anti-terrorism financing convention, the Court ruled. The Court also said it had no evidence to show that any of the armed militias in Donbass fighting against the government could be characterized as terrorist groups.

The ICJ found only that Russia was, “failing to take measures to investigate facts… regarding persons who have allegedly committed an offense.”  It added that the court “rejects all other submissions made by the Ukraine
.” [/b]

   
In other words, it wasn't in the ICJ's remit to investigate thoroughly whether Russia was a state sponsor of terrorism. It did find, however, that Russia was in breach of international law. https://www.aa.com.tr/en/world/top-un-court-ruling-defines-russia-violated-international-law-says-ukraine/3125215

Offline gringo

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Re: Russia-Ukraine ICJ ruling
« Reply #5 on: February 01, 2024, 08:03:PM »
In other words, it wasn't in the ICJ's remit to investigate thoroughly whether Russia was a state sponsor of terrorism. It did find, however, that Russia was in breach of international law. https://www.aa.com.tr/en/world/top-un-court-ruling-defines-russia-violated-international-law-says-ukraine/3125215
     No Steve. Ukraine's case against Russia was a failure by any measure. Everyone can see this, including you and the Ukrainian Foreign Ministry whom you quote  :-[ Even the article that you link to back up your idiotic conclusions acknowledges those facts despite a poor attempt at sugarcoating the findings. If you were being objective and had an interest in getting to the truth of matters-you would acknowledge the uncomfortable (to your worldview) truths. That you choose to ignore or whitewash those truths away shows that you are a flag waving partisan and therefore incapable of honest debate.
       

Offline Steve_uk

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Re: Russia-Ukraine ICJ ruling
« Reply #6 on: February 01, 2024, 09:22:PM »
     No Steve. Ukraine's case against Russia was a failure by any measure. Everyone can see this, including you and the Ukrainian Foreign Ministry whom you quote  :-[ Even the article that you link to back up your idiotic conclusions acknowledges those facts despite a poor attempt at sugarcoating the findings. If you were being objective and had an interest in getting to the truth of matters-you would acknowledge the uncomfortable (to your worldview) truths. That you choose to ignore or whitewash those truths away shows that you are a flag waving partisan and therefore incapable of honest debate.
     
The evidence wasn't found. Russia was morally guilty of not pursuing the cases hard enough. They have clamped down on the Ukrainian language in Crimea, probably ostracizing the local language speakers.

As for the BUK missile system, how can a judge sitting in The Hague possibly know for sure what was and wasn't smuggled across the 1400-mile border?  https://youtu.be/8pU3KluWRkg

Offline gringo

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Re: Russia-Ukraine ICJ ruling
« Reply #7 on: February 01, 2024, 11:35:PM »
The evidence wasn't found. Russia was morally guilty of not pursuing the cases hard enough. They have clamped down on the Ukrainian language in Crimea, probably ostracizing the local language speakers.

As for the BUK missile system, how can a judge sitting in The Hague possibly know for sure what was and wasn't smuggled across the 1400-mile border? https://youtu.be/8pU3KluWRkg
     And yet you believe the judgement of the district court of the Netherlands. The Dutch held the sham MH17 proceedings at the district court in the Hague, presumably to lend itself the gravitas of the ICJ. In truth it was a grubby show trial and an affront to justice and to those killed. If there were any confidence in the truth of the findings of the Dutch show trial then those findings would have been presented to the much higher court in terms of such international disputes. You should perhaps be asking yourself, Steve, why was the evidence that was deemed enough to convict three absent Russians in the show trial not presented to the ICJ. Supposedly the evidence exists to convict Russia, but is a secret when asking the ICJ for compensation for Russia's alleged complicity.
    No court, no matter how many thousands or just tens of miles away , could rule on anything if no evidence is presented, which it wasn't. The courts distance from the alleged events is irrelevant. Presenting evidence is all that matters and all a court can judge on.

Below a link to the summary of the ruling of the ICJ. It is impossible to read that and conclude anything other than that it was a massive defeat for the Ukrainians;

   https://www.icj-cij.org/sites/default/files/case-related/166/166-20240131-sum-01-00-en.pdf

    It is 42 pages so I will pick out the rulings on each and every issue over the next few posts. To try and spin this as anything but a crushing legal defeat for Ukraine is delusional. Or dishonest.