Author Topic: The murder of 14 year-old schoolgirl Jodi Jones near Edinburgh on 30 June 2003  (Read 327241 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Offline gordo30

  • Senior Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 767
Behind this gate are little woodland paths. One of which leads into the bottom half of Newbattle Abbey Cres: For this you must cross the River Esk.
This 'instant' non traceable washing facility, is in my opinion - what was used to clean most of the blood etc away. There are many gaps in time, over the evening, in which to repeat this task. The result being that, any dna picked up from the scene, upon his own person (clothes excluded) was taken by this river. Remembering, that this is surface contamination - not deep set over a longer period of time. (couple of hrs in the woods, mucking around


This bit astounds me mate..,

With everything that was occurring that you feel he had the time to pop down to the river to strip and wash away any blood on his body!! Without getting his cloths wet and then making his way back to his house to change, get his mum to dispose of all the clothing that would have been contaminated also that he would have had to have put back on. Then make his way back to the point where he is positively seen.
Never mind that you call it instantly untraceable which is miles away from the truth , we have the whole eco system of the river, algae,larvae ,pupae and eggs never mind the enzymes and other identifiable naturals structures that would have been caught in areas of the body that would show that he had.

Offline David1819

  • Veteran Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 6747
Behind this gate are little woodland paths. One of which leads into the bottom half of Newbattle Abbey Cres: For this you must cross the River Esk.
This 'instant' non traceable washing facility, is in my opinion - what was used to clean most of the blood etc away. There are many gaps in time, over the evening, in which to repeat this task. The result being that, any dna picked up from the scene, upon his own person (clothes excluded) was taken by this river. Remembering, that this is surface contamination - not deep set over a longer period of time. (couple of hrs in the woods, mucking around


This bit astounds me mate..,

With everything that was occurring that you feel he had the time to pop down to the river to strip and wash away any blood on his body!! Without getting his cloths wet and then making his way back to his house to change, get his mum to dispose of all the clothing that would have been contaminated also that he would have had to have put back on. Then make his way back to the point where he is positively seen.
Never mind that you call it instantly untraceable which is miles away from the truth , we have the whole eco system of the river, algae,larvae ,pupae and eggs never mind the enzymes and other identifiable naturals structures that would have been caught in areas of the body that would show that he had.

That’s not how it needs to have unfolded. The people that saw him did not take a close look at his clothes nor would they have been in any state of mind to at that time. The police did not search his house until five days after the crime. Neither do you address the fact they never recovered the green coat he was seen wearing and admits to wearing on the day of the crime.
"A theory without facts is fantasy"

Offline gordo30

  • Senior Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 767
That’s not how it needs to have unfolded. The people that saw him did not take a close look at his clothes nor would they have been in any state of mind to at that time. The police did not search his house until five days after the crime. Neither do you address the fact they never recovered the green coat he was seen wearing and admits to wearing on the day of the crime.

They took his green bomber jacket!! Why the hell would I comment on his state of mind it wasn’t in parky41’s post!

Offline Parky41

  • Junior Member
  • **
  • Posts: 34
Quote
When I read this I wasn’t sure if you actually believed this or were just trying to show that there were possibilities, now I’m not sure.
You see AB is quite definite in that she describes the girls top as blue. She describes the jeans as a lighter colour of blue in respect to the top and presumed  they were jeans, you see both items of clothing are in confirmation of each other. She is sincere and happy with her ability to recall what the girl was wearing! I have said before it’s truly hard to find an actual Scottish female to have black hair, in my experience the majority of those I meet have very light, middle to dark brown and real black is normally dyed, however it’s not outwith the realms of possibility but just unlikely.

Its similar to what the male was wearing in regards to the colour, as stated before the colour would normally be the first thing to be noticed and it appears that it was, green jacket and khaki trousers, had the description remained rudimentary like that I could understand her maybe allowing her mind to fit pieces into the wrong places but she didn’t did she? She described the jacket quite accurately! Fishing style(notice though it’s only a style as opposed to say a fishing gillet with large pockets) therefore she’s not claiming the garment was one she would expect to be used by fishermen. Hip length with pocket on the sleeve, collar up. Now I defy anyone to be able to not disseminate between a bomber,parka and fishing style jacket as there all very prenounce style wise
[/color]






Thank your for your response. It is of course, as expected. It is, as important as it is valid, for those close at heart to this case, set firmly in their beliefs to become defensive in a somewhat valiant way. I respect your views totally. I understand how deeply this involvement affects you.

I don't enter into, in-depth debate on these matters - I accept readily, each individuals choice of beliefs, especially with those who are very close to this case. You have spent the best part of 16yrs fighting for this laddies innocence. Within my own areas of study I have of course drawn my own conclusions. Some of which I put out for study purpose, some of personal evaluation, some to remind others of other mitigating factors.

Your response completes this area, for which I appreciate your help with humble gratitude, in highlighting my post.

We can conclude from this:

That ABs description was one of recall.
This was not some memory test, akin to someone being showing an image then later being asked certain questions in relation to this image.
This was a person who saw two people on her way home.
Her attention was drawn slightly more to these people because of the males actions.
An incident happens.
Her memory throws up this sighting. This sighting that was brief, she did not think ' Oh wait a minute, I better stop, have a good look at everything this couple is doing, perhaps take out her notepad and write a full 100% description down.
This witness does not go to the police and state:
That all of the clothing she describes is 100% correct.
She relates, to the best of her ability what her memory recalls.
It is neither exact or precise.
She ID's LM. It is him, that is implanted in her memory.

Offline Parky41

  • Junior Member
  • **
  • Posts: 34
Quote
This bit astounds me mate..,

With everything that was occurring that you feel he had the time to pop down to the river to strip and wash away any blood on his body!! Without getting his cloths wet and then making his way back to his house to change, get his mum to dispose of all the clothing that would have been contaminated also that he would have had to have put back on. Then make his way back to the point where he is positively seen.
Never mind that you call it instantly untraceable which is miles away from the truth , we have the whole eco system of the river, algae,larvae ,pupae and eggs never mind the enzymes and other identifiable naturals structures that would have been caught in areas of the body that would show that he had.
[/color]


Agree: There wasn't time to pop down to any old river, this river being but feet from this gate, it was en-route to his home -  he didn't need to shower when he got home, leaving any traces within the plumbing system.
All he needed at this point, was a quick change of clothing. I would have to see the forensic reports in full to see if any tests were done for algae, larvae, pupae and eggs or any other identifiable materials relating to rivers.
Taking into account of course, that whilst there would be all of the above in rivers - this isn't some slow flowing, almost stagnant water source.
What examples were taken that morning of the 1st? A hair sample, finger nails, check of body and clothing? Or just a check of  body in general, DNA sample and clothing? 

Apologies, I can understand why you may have picked up on this wrong.

By the exclusion of clothing - I simply meant, anything from himself thus nothing in the plumbing system, some 5 days later.
His clothing of course, would at this point have been in the river, especially his footwear.
There are no witnesses to any effect, either in this woodland area, going home - which is not surprising.
There are no witnesses of him at all between 17.42 and 17.55 on this 'very busy' R'd.
All that was needed in this short time frame was an immediate initial clean up, ( via this river )
Quick change of all clothing/footwear on, when entering the house and then onto Newbattle R'd  to be witnessed.
His mother need not have seen  him at this point.
He is sighted from 5.55 until 6.15 - then there is nothing until his meet with DH around 7pm
He leaves their company at 9pm which is unusual for him. (according to CM) That's if he did arrive home at 9pm.
They both state that he is home until 10.30 - he is witnessed at 10pm by a neighbour. It appears this house, is easy to access and depart from without others, within the household noticing.

We have this initial 13mins - could compel a list of things achievable? We also have from 17.32 until 17.38 a further 6 mins.
We have 45mins from 17.15 until 7pm
We have from 21.00 until approx. 23.00.

Over the course of the evening that is approx: just under 3hrs for disposal of evidence. Ample opportunity to be rid of any personal contamination and to get dirty from muckying it up in the woods.

There is more - as stated above, these are simply things I put out for different reasons - not for entering into some in-depth debate, which in itself is futile - there is no swaying of opinions to be had or attempted.

Offline gordo30

  • Senior Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 767
All the above doesn’t allow for the clean up at the scene, not just dna but footprints from very unusual boots , fibres caught on branches and all other possible sources.


Offline Parky41

  • Junior Member
  • **
  • Posts: 34
All the above doesn’t allow for the clean up at the scene, not just dna but footprints from very unusual boots , fibres caught on branches and all other possible sources.

Agreed. Which applies across the board if the killer is another. They too doing a clean up whilst leaving traces of others behind.

Offline gordo30

  • Senior Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 767
Agreed. Which applies across the board if the killer is another. They too doing a clean up whilst leaving traces of others behind.

Except there were full profiles there!!

Plus many other returned non reportable, they couldn’t have been Luke’s or they would have been used, if however they were instructed to only compare them against Luke’s that may account for it.
« Last Edit: August 14, 2019, 01:57:PM by gordo30 »

Online nugnug

  • Hero Member
  • ******
  • Posts: 14617
    • http://www.google.co.uk/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&cd=1&cad=rja&ved=0CDMQFjAA&url=http%3A%2F%2Fjohnnyvoid.wordpress.com%2F&ei=WTdUUo3IM6mY0QWYz4GADg&usg=AFQjCNE-8xtZuPAZ52VkntYOokH5da5MIA&bvm=bv.5353710
as ab claims she dident know Jodi and at he time no pictures of Jodi had been released yet hw te hell could she of thought she had seen her.

Offline gordo30

  • Senior Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 767
Ok parky41 let’s look at possible disposal of the items that would incriminate the killer, what’s your opinion of using a scrapyard who could have a smelter or furnace but more probably a crusher that could lose the incriminating clothing and murder weapon?
« Last Edit: August 14, 2019, 04:00:PM by gordo30 »

Offline Parky41

  • Junior Member
  • **
  • Posts: 34
Ok parky41 let’s look at possible disposal of the items that would incriminate the killer, what’s your opinion of using a scrapyard who could have a smelter or furnace but more probably a crusher that could lose the incriminating clothing and murder weapon?


Handy - Smelter being the best option.
If however we include the bike, CM's podcast - then both.

Offline Parky41

  • Junior Member
  • **
  • Posts: 34
as ab claims she dident know Jodi and at he time no pictures of Jodi had been released yet hw te hell could she of thought she had seen her.

Perhaps the statements will inform us - Somewhere around the point when she states;
I saw Jodi and a male standing at the lane next to a high school, I knew it was Jodi as my husbands brother popped in and said - hey! do us a favour will ya, trot along to the local nick and say ?
Maybe she knew CM? took a leaf out of her book - silly boy S! trot along back to the local nick and tell um we had a burnt pie for dinner with floppy broccoli.   

Online nugnug

  • Hero Member
  • ******
  • Posts: 14617
    • http://www.google.co.uk/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&cd=1&cad=rja&ved=0CDMQFjAA&url=http%3A%2F%2Fjohnnyvoid.wordpress.com%2F&ei=WTdUUo3IM6mY0QWYz4GADg&usg=AFQjCNE-8xtZuPAZ52VkntYOokH5da5MIA&bvm=bv.5353710
Perhaps the statements will inform us - Somewhere around the point when she states;
I saw Jodi and a male standing at the lane next to a high school, I knew it was Jodi as my husbands brother popped in and said - hey! do us a favour will ya, trot along to the local nick and say ?
Maybe she knew CM? took a leaf out of her book - silly boy S! trot along back to the local nick and tell um we had a burnt pie for dinner with floppy broccoli.

if you dont know somone and havent seena picture of them how can you thnk youve seen them.


Offline David1819

  • Veteran Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 6747
Perhaps the statements will inform us - Somewhere around the point when she states;
I saw Jodi and a male standing at the lane next to a high school, I knew it was Jodi as my husbands brother popped in and said - hey! do us a favour will ya, trot along to the local nick and say ?
Maybe she knew CM? took a leaf out of her book - silly boy S! trot along back to the local nick and tell um we had a burnt pie for dinner with floppy broccoli.

There are no statements on here. No case documents. This is just an echo chamber of rumours, speculation and misinformation.
"A theory without facts is fantasy"

Online nugnug

  • Hero Member
  • ******
  • Posts: 14617
    • http://www.google.co.uk/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&cd=1&cad=rja&ved=0CDMQFjAA&url=http%3A%2F%2Fjohnnyvoid.wordpress.com%2F&ei=WTdUUo3IM6mY0QWYz4GADg&usg=AFQjCNE-8xtZuPAZ52VkntYOokH5da5MIA&bvm=bv.5353710
https://t.co/Vzoz8xcxgO?amp=1

why did john ferris cut his hair straght after the murder.
« Last Edit: August 15, 2019, 01:40:PM by nugnug »