Author Topic: The murder of 14 year-old schoolgirl Jodi Jones near Edinburgh on 30 June 2003  (Read 327119 times)

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Offline gordo30

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5.30pm and 8 - 8.30pm. I'd have thought the dogs would have left forensic traces on the wall - it's a stone dyke that 7 dogs scrambled up, through and over onto the other side. Dickie Snr said he walked back up from the V break, on the woodland side, to the big break at the junction of the paths (the Easthouses end) and back along Lady Path

Let’s take it he was wrong substantially and it was actually 5pm , allowing for possibly missing Jodi and the murderer. This was a prolonged attack taking quite a while when you put all the processes of the crime together. The route he takes would come back eventually to the point of the murder scene and his dogs didn’t alert him to it, no noise and nothing witnessed! Crazy

Offline sandra L

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One big problem is if the murder occurred sometime after the 17:15 allotted time spot and put it to the latest of those 9 people who should have heard or saw something then we have a short window of when the crime could have been committed, equally we have a longer window of when it couldn’t have.

Another big problem is that if the witnesses to Stocky Man were correct, and Jodi was still on the Easthouses Road at 5.05pm, she couldn't have been killed at 5.15pm behind the wall - there's not enough time.

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If Jodi has simply went somewhere else and with someone different, whoever she was with would also appear to be the murderer!(alternatively she could have been with someone who caused her to be murdered) Or why wouldn’t they have came forward and simply said “yeah Jodi was with me until 6,7,8 pm etc”. Then we have the fact that if she had been with someone else for an extended period of time from where the crime occurred it would appear that Jodi was making her way towards Luke at newbattle, or alternatively on her way back from that area.

Or another alternative, Jodi spent some time with someone she "shouldn't" have been with - we know, if she left at 5pm, she was a bit too early for her usual meeting time with Luke of around 6pm - and someone attacked her after she left that person to head for Newbattle. Luke called to let her know he was out after tea at 5.32pm, eventually getting through at 5.38pm, so it would appear he hadn't expected her to have left already and, if AO told him "she's just left," Luke wouldn't be expecting her until around 6.10pm. Could she have gone to pick up some cannabis - maybe from Yvonne's, maybe from elsewhere - before heading off down the path?

It still wouldn't account for her not being seen by the witnesses who were over the wall between 8 and 9 o'clock, though.

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At that later time of night it would be unlikely for her to actually expect to go to see Luke! Mainly because of the non contact so she couldn’t be sure Luke would even be in, also this would be out of sorts with the routines and regular actions of Luke and Jodi .

Agreed. Also, if she was on the path between 8.30pm and 9pm, she'd have virtually no time to spend with Luke because her curfew was 10 o'clock - she'd be getting there just in time to about turn and head back!

Then there's the scream reported by the witness in the house at the top of the path - around 8pm, he reckoned. Since Dickie didn't mention hearing it, that would rule him out as being there or thereabouts at 8pm and it's unlikely he got there at 8.30, or he'd have bumped into Falconer on his (Dickie's) way back.

So, if the expectation was that she'd be in Newbattle around 6pm (which the statements of Luke, Judith and a couple of Jodi's friends all suggest was roughly the time the and others would meet up after tea), we'd also expect her to start making her way down the path at around 5.30pm  (the time Judith originally said she left). If the scream at 8pm is connected to the murder, that gives us a rough timescale of 5.45pm - 8pm (allowing time for Jodi to get from the top of the path to the V point). We also know that Jodi smoked a joint within an hour or so of her death and, taking all of the statements into account, that had to be after she left her home that evening.

If Jodi went straight to the V point after leaving her home at the claimed time of 4.50pm to smoke a joint with someone there, there would have been no body to see at 5.15pm (again, not enough time for the entirety of the attack on Jodi) - just a couple of people getting stoned.

Alternatively, if she went in through the big break at the top of the path to smoke a joint with someone (this was a popular hangout for underage or illicit smokers) and was initially attacked there, running further into the woodland strip in an attempt to escape, that would account for the bloodstained branches at the Easthouses end of the woodland strip.

There are just so many possibilities - sixteen years on and still no answers.

Offline sandra L

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The bottom line is that, if Jodi was killed at 5.15pm, several people who were over the wall at or after that time should have seen her. If they (genuinely) didn't, it would be reasonable to conclude she wasn't there at that time (I can't see kids playing in the woods saying nothing -- they'd have been utterly traumatised by the sight).

But that would mean Jodi wasn't dead, in the woodland strip, as late as 9pm. She was found at 11.35pm (approximately) - AW said Jodi was "clammy" to the touch, not stone cold. Does that support the idea that Jodi was killed much later than suggested and, if so, where was she in the time in between?

Offline gordo30

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But that would mean Jodi wasn't dead, in the woodland strip, as late as 9pm. She was found at 11.35pm (approximately) - AW said Jodi was "clammy" to the touch, not stone cold. Does that support the idea that Jodi was killed much later than suggested and, if so, where was she in the time in between

That’s the first time I think I’ve heard that is what AW described the body she had touched, I remember a few years ago we were discussing the entomology of the body and that didn’t coincide with a 6 hour gap between murder and discovery.

Offline gordo30

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Luke's dog didn't alert him to it the first time he walked directly past it. Wasn't interested. On the way back though and in front of the search party it was apparently like a scene from Lassie where he pulled Luke straight over to it and started scrabbling at the wall. A complete contrast to the dogs behaviour walking past it on the way up the path. Doesn't make sense imo

This of course has come up time and time again and I think because of so many events that were occurring that evening it takes on many connotations.
For instance is it more likely for a dog that was well trained and I think Mia could be described as a well trained dog to react out with what it’s handler wants it to do?
Do we know that it didn’t react on the way up?
Luke’s arrangements were to make his way up Roans ’ Dyke path and to make his way to Jodi’s to establish what they were to do after that. Of course on the way up if he saw Jodi then he would have let whoever know he had found her. There was no real urgency on Luke’s part as to him Jodi would have never been in danger or put herself in danger so it was simply she was not where she should have been and they were out to look for her. He was himself with a dog, instructions were made and he was following them.

Is this really any different from let’s say the immediate assumption from Judy that something bad had happened to Jodi when on other occasions she didn’t react the same way when Jodi hadn’t shown up.

Offline gordo30

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I am wondering lithium with what’s been discussed do you feel that the 17:15 time of the murder still holds up to scrutiny?
« Last Edit: June 19, 2019, 01:43:PM by gordo30 »

Online nugnug

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thers at least 4 people who should of seen the body if it was there david dickie john ferris Gordon dickie and james a falconer

mean the body wasnt there when they were or they did see it and for some reason chose to ignore it.
« Last Edit: June 19, 2019, 07:33:PM by nugnug »

Online nugnug

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Not true. Entirely possible to be on the path without seeing the body. Also plenty of room to get to where JF left his condom without being anywhere near the body despite Sandra claiming he had to "STEP OVER IT"  ::)

And who says dickie and fung were over the wall? DD certainly wasn't. A witness said they seen the bike parked at the break in the wall which would be impossible to tell from a car.

in broad daylight how could you not spot all that blood.

Offline Bullseye

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Sounds about right to me considering Luke and Jodi were spotted arguing on Jodi's side of the path at around 16:55 (which ties in with the time Jodi left her house and the few minutes to get to the path entrance and also the time Shane just couldn't agree that Luke was in the house) and the time to walk to the wall and climb over and the argument to escalate. Luke was then spotted by boys who knew him from school alone at his end of the path acting suspicious from about 17:40 - 18:00. Where he phoned Alan Ovens to pretend he was waiting for Jodi. AO ofcourse told him Jodi's left to meet you. Luke said "ok cool" even though his last text from Jodi was almost an hour ago saying she was leaving, he didn't raise this with AO... also later told his friends Jodi won't be coming out; she's grounded. Why would he say that?  AO already told him Jodi had left... Why would he go home that night and never wonder what happened to Jodi and why she stood him up?

edit: no idea how Corrine confirming from work that Luke was at home burning dinner while Shane was having a wank in an empty house fits in to any of this.
 
Luke's friends who hung about with him that night in the woods all believe he done it. Ask yourself why?


It's all so obvious. And to think he almost got away with it.

Sorry but this is the sort of statements that get me annoyed, there is nothing you have said that is fact, but it’s made out to all be fact

Jodi and Luke were not spotted arguing, 2 people who might have been them spotted at top of path

Luke was spotted by 2 boys that knew him, but as far as I know they did not say he was acting suspicious (I’m sure Sandra can confirm on that tho), also this is meant to be only minutes after he carried out this bloodied murder, just sitting at the end of his street, Seems very unlikely to me. we do not know what ao said, even he was not sure, he did say she had already left but we do not know he said that she left to meet him. Luke said he then waited longer for her she did not turn up so he told him mum where he would be, met him mates and said Jodi wasn’t coming, may have been grounded. They were 14, why would he be worried she did not turn up, when I was 14 if my mate / bf did not turn up I’d just think something happened to stop them coming, certainly would not be worried.

The text from Jodi to Luke did not say she was leaving then to meet him, nobody knows what the text said apart from Luke and Jodi.

How do you know Luke’s friends he was with that night thought he done it, out of interest, was that in there statements?

Offline Bullseye

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I did not know it was a frozen pie, that’s would take over 30mins to burn I would think unless heat was up too high. Luke made the tea most nights so unlikely he had the heat to high, sounds like he had a good idea how to cook (better than me anyway lol ). If tea was ready for 1715 - 1720 I don’t see enough time for the pie to burn if it was in at 1650.

Offline Bullseye

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Someone had to have made the tea that night, it was not Shane or his mum according to their statements, but they both remember the burnt pie I believe. I always thought the pie might have been burnt as Luke had put it in to cook but was not there to take it out. Ie told his mum he put the pie in to cook and then went out, when him mum got home the pie was burnt.

Really depends if Shane remembers seeing Luke when he went to get his tea, I’ve heard both he did see him and he didn’t so I’ve never been clear on that.

Offline sandra L

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I don't have time to address the mass of misinformation Lithium has posted here tonight - it'll have to wait until Monday.

Luke called his mum's work at either 4.15 or 4.25pm (I'll have to check the phone logs to confirm which one) to ask what to cook for tea. There's no requirement for store bought pies to be defrosted - they're usually cooked from frozen and take around 30 - 45 minutes to cook - if Luke put the pies in the oven after the phone call to his mum, they'd be ready for 5.15pm - maybe he put them on the top shelf instead of the middle, or maybe he set the temperature a bit too high.


Offline gordo30

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No one said in court that they saw Luke at the Easthouses end of the path, in-fact it was the opposite. No one saw him at the crime scene or wherever it was he managed to clean himself up. The bike was spotted by the tool place employees, ones that were getting harassed by it that afternoon so would have known the bike. That bike places them at the crime scene. No one else is placed there.

Falconer by his own statement not Sandra’s claim the route he took meant he would have had to have stepped over the body.

Dickie snr claimed he was there and went over so again he can be placed at the crime scene, Luke can’t.


Offline Bullseye

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Thanks Sandra, I had read somewhere recently he spoke to his mum around 1650 to find out what was for tea, if it was 1620/1630 that’s plenty time to cook and even burn a pie.

Offline gordo30

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And who says dickie and fung were over the wall? DD certainly wasn't

I’m curious as to your claim the Dickie certainly didn’t go over , if Dickie has told you that then it suggests you know where they went when not with the bike.! It also suggests that Ferris did! We know Jodi smoked cannabis that evening was she there to buy it off Ferris?