Daniel and Nicholas Caffell: 22 June 1979-7 August 1985

[mike tesko]

Hi Mike, I wonder if the extended rellies ever considered the possibility of suing certain medical practitioners for negligence because of their failure to take Sheila's illness and her delusional thoughts more seriously?? 
Had June and Nevill, social services et al been alerted maybe this tragedy could have been averted.  Sadly, JB has been nominated for the role of monster while others walk free continuing their lives into old age. 
If June or Neville had have been spared they may have felt the need to pursue these revelations further.  Part of the problem for Jeremy Bamber has always been the fact that his nearest and dearest died and other relations were happy enough to see him take the blame imo.

I agree...

Just to recap - Sheila threatened to kill her children, they ended up being killed, nobody except her psychiatrist, or Sheila herself knew she had expressed a desire to kill them both. Sheila was disturbed of / in mind, OK it was an illness, but nevertheless, by anybodies standard her mind and thinking was not normal...

Colin himself did not want his children going to whf that week-end...

June Bamber told her sister Pamela, on the phone on the evening before the shootings, that she would like to come and speak to her about Sheila because June told Pamela that Sheila had been and was behaving oddly...

The children themselves were becoming disturbed whilst spending time at whf with their grandmother, as evidenced by school drawings, apparently drawn by both of the children:-

[Jane]

..and Jeremy was so upset his nearest and dearest had died,wasn't he..cracking vulgar jokes at the funerals,keeping a woman out in the pouring rain telling her to use another funeral car,expressing the view he was glad June was dead but "I do miss the old man occasionally". It's Colin who is serving the life sentence and to some extent Ann Eaton who lost her aunt,and of course those five victims who lie six feet under and who cannot speak for themselves.

If you insist that it was Jeremy who committed the crime, then you must accept that Julie, by her passive acceptance of what she knew him to be planning, was lending her encouragement and giving her permission for him to carry out his plan.

[Jane]

But Colin met with Dr. Ferguson who told him Sheila was no danger to the children or herself. You can read this here:http://jeremybamberforum.co.uk/index.php/topic,1560.0.html

 I have read that Colin invited Jeremy to the party on the Saturday before the murders so he could ask Jeremy if he would discuss with his parents about a possible change of treatment for Sheila. I believe Jeremy never broached the subject and took this as yet another pretext for getting rid of a damaged Sheila as he saw it,and the twins in that case would have to be disposed of too to make things neater so Uncle Jeremy would not be bothering with them in the aftermath when probate was granted.

PS. The statement is on page 93 if the link doesn't work.

Colin MAY have broached the subject, but who on earth has deep and meaningfuls at parties, at least not ones they can recall later, as was the case when the reason Jeremy and Julie took Sheila home was because Colin had had too much to drink.

[Caroline R]

Can you post the direct reference? Offhand I believe it more to be something like Sheila saw the Devil in them,that she thought they were capable of sex with her and Nicholas would turn out to be a woman hater. I'm not saying it's not shocking but Sheila was a schizophrenic after all.

Exactly and had expressed thoughts about killing her children!!

[mike tesko]

I agree...

Just to recap - Sheila threatened to kill her children, they ended up being killed, nobody except her psychiatrist, or Sheila herself knew she had expressed a desire to kill them both. Sheila was disturbed of / in mind, OK it was an illness, but nevertheless, by anybodies standard her mind and thinking was not normal...

Colin himself did not want his children going to whf that week-end...

June Bamber told her sister Pamela, on the phone on the evening before the shootings, that she would like to come and speak to her about Sheila because June told Pamela that Sheila had been and was behaving oddly...

The children themselves were becoming disturbed whilst spending time at whf with their grandmother, as evidenced by school drawings, apparently drawn by both of the children:-

[Steve_uk]

Did Jeremy telephone Julie directly after returning on the bicycle after all,and way before any purported call from Nevill..http://jeremybamberforum.co.uk/index.php/topic,1937.0.html

[Steve_uk]

I agree...

Just to recap - Sheila threatened to kill her children, they ended up being killed, nobody except her psychiatrist, or Sheila herself knew she had expressed a desire to kill them both. Sheila was disturbed of / in mind, OK it was an illness, but nevertheless, by anybodies standard her mind and thinking was not normal...

Colin himself did not want his children going to whf that week-end...

June Bamber told her sister Pamela, on the phone on the evening before the shootings, that she would like to come and speak to her about Sheila because June told Pamela that Sheila had been and was behaving oddly...

The children themselves were becoming disturbed whilst spending time at whf with their grandmother, as evidenced by school drawings, apparently drawn by both of the children:-

Sheila did not threaten to kill her children at any time in front of anyone or any sensible person would have seen they were taken from her. The provenance of the drawings is far from clear..

[Steve_uk]

Colin MAY have broached the subject, but who on earth has deep and meaningfuls at parties, at least not ones they can recall later, as was the case when the reason Jeremy and Julie took Sheila home was because Colin had had too much to drink.

..but Sheila was frightened of asking her own brother to take her back home and had to get Colin to intercede..

[Caroline R]

Sheila did not threaten to kill her children at any time in front of anyone or any sensible person would have seen they were taken from her. The provenance of the drawings is far from clear..

Are you suggesting her psychiatrist was a liar? Colin has given the drawings provenance. You are trying to change well established facts to suit yourself.

[Caroline R]

..but Sheila was frightened of asking her own brother to take her back home and had to get Colin to intercede..

But she wasn't afraid to actually go with him? If she was afraid to ask, she wouldn't have gone with him!!

[maggie]

..but Sheila was frightened of asking her own brother to take her back home and had to get Colin to intercede..

I have often wondered where you read that Sheila was 'frightened' to ask Jeremy to take her home.  Are you sure Sheila just didn't want to ask him because it would spoil his night?  I'm sure we've all been in similar situations and it shows Sheila when well was considerate of her brother.  It doesn't mean she was frightened of him?

[Jane]

Sheila did not threaten to kill her children at any time in front of anyone or any sensible person would have seen they were taken from her. The provenance of the drawings is far from clear..

One could make the argument that no sensible person would have allowed her meds to be played about with or leave her unsupported by a psychiatric nurse making home visits. She was without that support for 18 weeks and whilst nothing untoward MAY have happened, the potential was there.

[Jane]

..but Sheila was frightened of asking her own brother to take her back home and had to get Colin to intercede..

Let's look at that from another angle, shall we. It's perfectly possible that Sheila asked Colin to take her home because she wanted to get Colin away from Heather. Colin, quite reasonably, asked Jeremy to take her home and I think Jule went with them.

[lookout]

The drawings say it all really. Pretty disturbing in children so young. This obviously,is how teachers get a background about the family. The teacher should have gently questioned those children in the way that teachers do.
When I look at those drawings,,my heart breaks at the unhappiness/sadness that they portray in family life from children so young.
I look at my own great/grandchildrens drawings ( same ages as the twins ) and see big smiley faces the sun shining and even smiley faces on the flowers,and I could cry at the difference.

[maggie]

But she wasn't afraid to actually go with him? If she was afraid to ask, she wouldn't have gone with him!!

Exactly Caroline and when Colin asked Jeremy, what did he do become violent and abusive?  No he took Sheila home. 
Wonder if Sheila was just tired or also disappointed with the relationship Colin now had with someone else? 
Was she frightened of Jeremy over reacting because she was a bit psychotic and paranoid?  We have to remember surely, that Sheila's behaviour was ruled by her illness.  People I know with paranoid schizophrenia are just that.....paranoid.......no offence intended but it is true. Medication obviously helps these symptoms but Sheila wasn't taking her medication.