2002 appeal judgement...

[tyler]

June appears to have been shot and injured and then the shooter left the room. June had made her way around to the other side of the bed. Maybe she was trying to reach the twins room?

[Bridget]

June appears to have been shot and injured and then the shooter left the room. June had made her way around to the other side of the bed. Maybe she was trying to reach the twins room?

Possibly yes, but for Sheila to have been trapped in there by the police you are back to all of this happening at about 7.30am, whilst the police were in the house - so they all have to be lying again.

[killingeve]

All very good questions.

Awww 10/10 thanks Miss Bridget Don't want to be accused of being teacher's pet.

 
No more so than her own room was.

If you favour the 4 murders and a suicide theory I suppose that's not impossible, but you'd have to ask why she went in there. If it was because she'd just killed June then did first she kill the twins, then chase Neville downstairs leaving June alive and well upstairs? If so, wouldn't you expect June to have gone into the twins room?

Unsure in my own mind as to the sequence of murders.  Tend to think June was shot first.  SC probably didn't realise how many bullets it would take with that particular gun/ammunition and hence went overkill on the other victims.  As I said might have been trapped in that room due to the way the police entered eg SC roaming around and looking out of windows.  Might she have gone in to use the phone assuming she was unaware it had been moved?  Or to check June was dead?  Or for June's bible?  If JB was responsible why would he not think like us and stage her body in another room to add authenticity.  She must have been compliant as her body showed no signs of a struggle so surely if he could get the gun to her neck in the position her body was found in, he could place the gun in her mouth with the outcome more predictable?  Apologies to any poster if this is upsetting and/or a bit graphic.

[Bridget]

Unsure in my own mind as to the sequence of murders.  Tend to think June was shot first.  SC probably didn't realise how many bullets it would take with that particular gun/ammunition and hence went overkill on the other victims.  As I said might have been trapped in that room due to the way the police entered eg SC roaming around and looking out of windows.  Might she have gone in to use the phone assuming she was unaware it had been moved?  Or to check June was dead?  Or for June's bible?  If JB was responsible why would he not think like us and stage her body in another room to add authenticity.  She must have been compliant as her body showed no signs of a struggle so surely if he could get the gun to her neck in the position her body was found in, he could place the gun in her mouth with the outcome more predictable?  Apologies to any poster if this is upsetting and/or a bit graphic.

If she was wandering around upstairs when the police broke in she could have gone into any of the upstairs rooms before they got up there. I think she was trapped in that room, but by JB, not the police.

[killingeve]

If she was wandering around upstairs when the police broke in she could have gone into any of the upstairs rooms before they got up there. I think she was trapped in that room, but by JB, not the police.

If she was in that room of her own accord why?  Why would JB trap her in that particular room? If JB was able to get her in the position her body was found in without a struggle and shoot her not once but twice, why was he unable to entice her to another room to add authenticity?  Why not place the gun in her mouth?  Why would she not have gone to the twins' room?  For 99.9% of mothers the first port of call would be their children.  Surely she would have removed the bedding to check for a pulse?  Gone hysterical and have a tear stained face?

[Bridget]

If she was in that room of her own accord why?  Why would JB trap her in that particular room? If JB was able to get her in the position her body was found in without a struggle and shoot her not once but twice, why was he unable to entice her to another room to add authenticity?  Why not place the gun in her mouth?  Why would she not have gone to the twins' room?  For 99.9% of mothers the first port of call would be their children.  Surely she would have removed the bedding to check for a pulse?  Gone hysterical and have a tear stained face?

Well this is all speculation which is something I try to avoid, but I think he shot the twins first and then went to his parents room and shot them both, possibly killing neither of them at that stage. Neville got past him and went downstairs to get to the phone (or whatever) and he chased him down leaving June badly injured. Sheila was awoken by the noise in her parents bedroom and seeing June injured (and unaware that the twins were dead) went to her. JB, having finished Neville off downstairs returned back upstairs to find Sheila and June both in the main bedroom. He shot June again in the doorway whilst Sheila retreated to the other side of the bed. Threatening her with the gun he cornered her by Neville's side of the bed and shot her in the neck as she was sitting or kneeling in submission. She collapsed on her right side unconscious. Realising that she was not dead and that he couldn't get a second shot in with her in that position he pulls her straight by her feet and delivers the second shot under her chin.

[killingeve]

Well this is all speculation which is something I try to avoid, but I think he shot the twins first and then went to his parents room and shot them both, possibly killing neither of them at that stage. Neville got past him and went downstairs to get to the phone (or whatever) and he chased him down leaving June badly injured. Sheila was awoken by the noise in her parents bedroom and seeing June injured (and unaware that the twins were dead) went to her. JB, having finished Neville off downstairs returned back upstairs to find Sheila and June both in the main bedroom. He shot June again in the doorway whilst Sheila retreated to the other side of the bed. Threatening her with the gun he cornered her by Neville's side of the bed and shot her in the neck as she was sitting or kneeling in submission. She collapsed on her right side unconscious. Realising that she was not dead and that he couldn't get a second shot in with her in that position he pulls her straight by her feet and delivers the second shot under her chin.

Yes and I understand why    But thanks anyway.

Well I thinks its obvious no one killed NB in the bedroom?  I really think SC's natural instinct as a mother would be to to check on her children and get them to safety not to tend to her adoptive mother that by all accounts she hated.  What of this struggle going on downstairs where the mantle was scratched by the silencer, the lampshade smashed, shots being fired, furniture and crockery flying?  All this why Sheila meekly sits nursing June and is oblivious to any potential danger to the twins and herself?  What did she think JB's next move might be a cup of cocoa before they all return to bed? 

[Bridget]

Yes and I understand why    But thanks anyway.

Well I thinks its obvious no one killed NB in the bedroom?  I really think SC's natural instinct as a mother would be to to check on her children and get them to safety not to tend to her adoptive mother that by all accounts she hated.  What of this struggle going on downstairs where the mantle was scratched by the silencer, the lampshade smashed, shots being fired, furniture and crockery flying?  All this why Sheila meekly sits nursing June and is oblivious to any potential danger to the twins and herself?  What did she think JB's next move might be a cup of cocoa before they all return to bed?

As I said, it's all speculation.

I don't accept that Sheila hated June, that's far to simplistic a view of their relationship.

We don't actually know any of the timings such as at what point Sheila was awoken, how long she spent in her parents room, whether she went first to the twins room and then to her parents room looking for help, whether she went around the bed in order to access the connecting door to the twins room - the list is endless and only JB knows the truth IMO.

[Lugg]

Well this is all speculation which is something I try to avoid, but I think he shot the twins first and then went to his parents room and shot them both, possibly killing neither of them at that stage. Neville got past him and went downstairs to get to the phone (or whatever) and he chased him down leaving June badly injured. Sheila was awoken by the noise in her parents bedroom and seeing June injured (and unaware that the twins were dead) went to her. JB, having finished Neville off downstairs returned back upstairs to find Sheila and June both in the main bedroom. He shot June again in the doorway whilst Sheila retreated to the other side of the bed. Threatening her with the gun he cornered her by Neville's side of the bed and shot her in the neck as she was sitting or kneeling in submission. She collapsed on her right side unconscious. Realising that she was not dead and that he couldn't get a second shot in with her in that position he pulls her straight by her feet and delivers the second shot under her chin.

I see you avoided speculation very well Bridget.

[killingeve]

As I said, it's all speculation.

I don't accept that Sheila hated June, that's far to simplistic a view of their relationship.

I'm pretty certain I've read most material in the public domain and I've yet to read anything that shows any sort of affection whatsover.  Tell a lie AE did say when SC asked her to take a photo of SC at Oak farm to send to her natural mother she felt this was to spare June any emotional pain.

We don't actually know any of the timings such as at what point Sheila was awoken, how long she spent in her parents room, whether she went first to the twins room and then to her parents room looking for help, whether she went around the bed in order to access the connecting door to the twins room - the list is endless and only JB knows the truth IMO.

Assuming she ever went to sleep that night? 

Well imo sadly those that know the truth are no longer alive.

[Bridget]

I see you avoided speculation very well Bridget.

Hence the disclaimer in the first sentence

[lookout]

Doesn't anyone else think,, that if you were guilty of anything and " knew it ",,wouldn't you have given up the fight after all these years.? Because as sure as Hell I would have done.

[lookout]

Would anyone else plead their innocence for nigh on 28 years if they weren't.? Honestly.?
Cat A prisoners all try it,,but never beyond a couple of years,,so why does everyone think that Jeremy isn't ever going to give up.? He's not crackers,so we can rule that out. He's not a psychopath because he's also been interviewed by various psychiatrists/psychologists to prove that he isn't. So why is he so determined to see this through,,involving S.McKay on a pro-bono arrangement ( who obviously thinks it's worthwhile or he wouldn't have taken it on ) friends from the community where he lived,,dozens of supporters,and gathering pace, and professionals.  ?

[killingeve]

As I said, it's all speculation.

I don't accept that Sheila hated June, that's far to simplistic a view of their relationship.

We don't actually know any of the timings such as at what point Sheila was awoken, how long she spent in her parents room, whether she went first to the twins room and then to her parents room looking for help, whether she went around the bed in order to access the connecting door to the twins room - the list is endless and only JB knows the truth IMO.

(Arm raised to ask a Q 

Miss Bridget this is what you said about AE with regard to posters' interpretation of AE's relationship with SC and JB. 

http://jeremybamberforum.co.uk/index.php/topic,4226.msg173147.html#msg173147

Now you appear to be saying that you have some deep understanding of the SC and June relationship?

Confused 

[Bridget]

(Arm raised to ask a Q 

Miss Bridget this is what you said about AE with regard to posters' interpretation of AE's relationship with SC and JB. 

http://jeremybamberforum.co.uk/index.php/topic,4226.msg173147.html#msg173147

Now you appear to be saying that you have some deep understanding of the SC and June relationship?

Confused 

I haven't said anything of the sort. I think like most relationships theirs was complex, and like many difficult, but above all their relationship is largely incomprehensible to me because I didn't know either of them. You think Sheila hated June based on what you have read mostly in court documents and statements taken for an entirely different purpose. Maybe she did hate her sometimes, but at the same time love her, or maybe she even said that she hated her from time to time. Do you think that's all that their relationship boils down to? What do you think JB meant when he said "I fucking hate my parents"?