The 4/5 telephone calls made that night

[Caroline R]

So from the previous two posts we can now establish that not only was Jeremy considering doing away with his family but that coincidentally Sheila beat him to it,and secondly Julie was blabbing to all and sundry about it but only spreading lies,for what reason I cannot fathom.

You can establish what you like - those are your words - not mine!! Sheila didn't beat anyone to it, she had a psychotic episode that ended in tragedy. Julie wanted to get some revenge when she realised she wouldn't be Mrs Jeremy Bamber. Probably didn't intend for him to be convicted but once the police were involved, she had to go along with her story - whatever the consequences.

[Caroline R]

Anyone found any documents relating to the panic button yet? I haven't found any (yet).

[Steve_uk]

You can establish what you like - those are your words - not mine!! Sheila didn't beat anyone to it, she had a psychotic episode that ended in tragedy. Julie wanted to get some revenge when she realised she wouldn't be Mrs Jeremy Bamber. Probably didn't intend for him to be convicted but once the police were involved, she had to go along with her story - whatever the consequences.

But Julie didn't need to go to Police and I think was reluctant through reasons already given. To suggest that a person is then forced to go through six days in the witness box along with all the other times she met DS Stan Jones officially as the Jeremy supporters are fond of quoting doesn't make sense unless her story was real.

[susan]

Caroline I agree with you Julie was a scorned woman and the situation got out of hand and it became a survial issue to look after herself and be rewarded.  Don't think she set out to get Jeremy convicted but she did and coped with it so well always with a smile.

[Caroline R]

But Julie didn't need to go to Police and I think was reluctant through reasons already given. To suggest that a person is then forced to go through six days in the witness box along with all the other times she met DS Stan Jones officially as the Jeremy supporters are fond of quoting doesn't make sense unless her story was real.

Ha, ha!!!!! Didn't need to go? Of course she did or they would have coming looking for her!! Steve? Do you think these things through??

[Caroline R]

Caroline I agree with you Julie was a scorned woman and the situation got out of hand and it became a survial issue to look after herself and be rewarded.  Don't think she set out to get Jeremy convicted but she did and coped with it so well always with a smile.

And a flash of her thighs!! 

[Alias]

But it's Ralph(Nevill) who is in a panic about Sheila upstairs with a gun so why doesn't he take the precaution of removing the ammunition from the kitchen worktop?

Exactly that, panic, not thinking clearly. Besides, he didn´t know what was going to happen, didn´t anticipate the events that unfolded.

[maggie]

But it's Ralph(Nevill) who is in a panic about Sheila upstairs with a gun so why doesn't he take the precaution of removing the ammunition from the kitchen worktop?

Maybe he had to run back upstairs because maybe someone had been shot, maybe he was going back down to the kitchen to do just that when he was shot on the stairs and attacked from behind so the ammo stayed where it was lying and Ralph died.

[Alias]

Ha, ha!!!!! Didn't need to go? Of course she did or they would have coming looking for her!! Steve? Do you think these things through??

They would. Julie would have had to do some time if she hadn´t cooperated with EP. Bye bye teacherjob.

[killingeve]

I have this picture in my mind of Nevill running up and down the stairs at least twice. I think he called Jeremy before he realized just how serious this "incident" was. He ran upstairs after he had called, I think, he wanted to take control of the situation, but he couldn´t. He underestimated the seriousness.

Yes I agree Alias.  Claire Powell's book quotes SC's neighbours as stating they were often woken by SC screaming in the early hours.  The book also states that NB and June kept themselves to themselves.  This is reiterated in Colin's book along with the fact that the relatives had no idea about the seriousness of SC's mental illness.  I beleive NB was woken by SC downstairs who either had possession of the gun or did shortly after NB appeared.  At this point NB thought he could contain the situation.  He did not anticipate SC actually using the gun.  He called JB for assistance to disarm and hoped to keep the matter private as it is very clear the Bambers were very PRIVATE people.  As NB was calling JB I believe SC ran upstairs shot June.  NB dropped the phone, ran upstairs where he was also shot.  NB then fled back to the kitchen...

As JB was cut off and unable to reconnect with NB I believe he phoned JM for advice.  Although JB was aware of SC's mental illness such a phone call was a first and I may well have done similar at 24 yoa.

[Caroline R]

Yes I agree Alias.  Claire Powell's book quotes SC's neighbours as stating they were often woken by SC screaming in the early hours.  The book also states that NB and June kept themselves to themselves.  This is reiterated in Colin's book along with the fact that the relatives had no idea about the seriousness of SC's mental illness.  I beleive NB was woken by SC downstairs who either had possession of the gun or did shortly after NB appeared.  At this point NB thought he could contain the situation.  He did not anticipate SC actually using the gun.  He called JB for assistance to disarm and hoped to keep the matter private as it is very clear the Bambers were very PRIVATE people.  As NB was calling JB I believe SC ran upstairs shot June.  NB dropped the phone, ran upstairs where he was also shot.  NB then fled back to the kitchen...

Pretty much sums up my own thoughts NN!!

As JB was cut off and unable to reconnect with NB I believe he phoned JM for advice.  Although JB was aware of SC's mental illness such a phone call was a first and I may well have done similar at 24 yoa.

[Jane]

Yes I agree Alias.  Claire Powell's book quotes SC's neighbours as stating they were often woken by SC screaming in the early hours.  The book also states that NB and June kept themselves to themselves.  This is reiterated in Colin's book along with the fact that the relatives had no idea about the seriousness of SC's mental illness.  I beleive NB was woken by SC downstairs who either had possession of the gun or did shortly after NB appeared.  At this point NB thought he could contain the situation.  He did not anticipate SC actually using the gun.  He called JB for assistance to disarm and hoped to keep the matter private as it is very clear the Bambers were very PRIVATE people.  As NB was calling JB I believe SC ran upstairs shot June.  NB dropped the phone, ran upstairs where he was also shot.  NB then fled back to the kitchen...

As JB was cut off and unable to reconnect with NB I believe he phoned JM for advice.  Although JB was aware of SC's mental illness such a phone call was a first and I may well have done similar at 24 yoa.

NaNu Hi. Expanding on your thoughts for a moment, with which I totally concur, by the way, it may have been that simultaneously with hearing Sheila downstairs, perhaps talking/holding a loud conversation, he remembered that there was a gun which he hadn't put away earlier.

[Steve_uk]

Yes I agree Alias.  Claire Powell's book quotes SC's neighbours as stating they were often woken by SC screaming in the early hours.  The book also states that NB and June kept themselves to themselves.  This is reiterated in Colin's book along with the fact that the relatives had no idea about the seriousness of SC's mental illness.  I beleive NB was woken by SC downstairs who either had possession of the gun or did shortly after NB appeared.  At this point NB thought he could contain the situation.  He did not anticipate SC actually using the gun.  He called JB for assistance to disarm and hoped to keep the matter private as it is very clear the Bambers were very PRIVATE people.  As NB was calling JB I believe SC ran upstairs shot June.  NB dropped the phone, ran upstairs where he was also shot.  NB then fled back to the kitchen...

As JB was cut off and unable to reconnect with NB I believe he phoned JM for advice.  Although JB was aware of SC's mental illness such a phone call was a first and I may well have done similar at 24 yoa.

A wailing Sheila would have given June time to get out of bed and Ralph (Nevill)to clear away any ammunition for the rifle which was right by him as he made the purported telephone call to a son he was barely on speaking terms with. Had Nevill heard any shots he would have telephoned the Police himself and this ex RAF pilot would certainly not have dropped the telephone,nor relinquished his only lifeline to a mentally ill daughter pressing one of her well-manicured fingernails onto the cradle.

[Jane]

A wailing Sheila would have given June time to get out of bed and Ralph (Nevill)to clear away any ammunition for the rifle which was right by him as he made the purported telephone call to a son he was barely on speaking terms with. Had Nevill heard any shots he would have telephoned the Police himself and this ex RAF pilot would certainly not have dropped the telephone,nor relinquished his only lifeline to a mentally ill daughter pressing one of her well-manicured fingernails onto the cradle.

Steve, I feel that because you think you know what happened you can't see the possibility of another scenario. What NaNu says makes sense. Nevill may well have rushed downstairs in order to pre-empt an increasingly aggitated Sheila from picking up the gun. She may possibly have been able to evade him at that point and run upstairs giving him time to call Jeremy, at which time it was only a question of "Sheila's gone mad and has a gun", not for a moment do I believe it crossed his mind that she would use it. I don't accept your constant assertion that they were barely on speaking terms but I do accept that they were very private people and everything possible was kept "in house." It is possible that up to that point no shots had been fired.

[maggie]

Steve, I feel that because you think you know what happened you can't see the possibility of another scenario. What NaNu says makes sense. Nevill may well have rushed downstairs in order to pre-empt an increasingly aggitated Sheila from picking up the gun. She may possibly have been able to evade him at that point and run upstairs giving him time to call Jeremy, at which time it was only a question of "Sheila's gone mad and has a gun", not for a moment do I believe it crossed his mind that she would use it. I don't accept your constant assertion that they were barely on speaking terms but I do accept that they were very private people and everything possible was kept "in house." It is possible that up to that point no shots had been fired.

I agree with you, Alias and NN on this theory, April, I've never believed that Ralph or anyone else was injured at the time of the phone call to Jeremy, can only imagine why Ralph returned downstairs, why not use the phone in the office? Maybe he came down for a different reason, as the doors were bolted maybe to unlock the front door for Jeremy or who knows but someone got to him, poor man. Have only just thought about the fact the doors were locked and bolted, did Ralph expect Jeremy to climb through the window, or surely he would have unlocked the door for him, but maybe he didn't have an opportunity to do that.