Author Topic: The case of Madeleine McCann  (Read 580340 times)

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Offline mike tesko

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Re: The case of Madeleine McCann
« Reply #5385 on: December 19, 2020, 07:32:PM »
German police (authorities), already have the mobile phone records of all those involved in 'the arrangement' covering evening of1st/4th May 2007, and beyond, and are awaiting the results of an analysis of these, before the McCann parents, and some of their companions, are officially back in the firing line'

Madeleine McCann was almost certainly dead by the morning of Tuesday, 2nd May 2007...
"Oh, what a tangled web we weave, when we first practice to deceive"...

Offline mike tesko

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Re: The case of Madeleine McCann
« Reply #5386 on: December 19, 2020, 07:41:PM »

Madeleine McCann was almost certainly dead by the morning of Tuesday, 2nd May 2007...

'walpurgus night', or 'May day' rituals lie at the heart of the Madeleine McCann (so called disappearence)...

Madeleine McCann was a child sacrifice, and she almost certainly died as a sacrifice at around midnight (1st/2 May 2007). She did not attend the creche or take part in any children's activities during 2nd or and third May 2007..
"Oh, what a tangled web we weave, when we first practice to deceive"...

Offline mike tesko

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Re: The case of Madeleine McCann
« Reply #5387 on: December 19, 2020, 07:43:PM »
'walpurgus night', or 'May day' rituals lie at the heart of the Madeleine McCann (so called disappearence)...

Madeleine McCann was a child sacrifice, and she almost certainly died as a sacrifice at around midnight (1st/2 May 2007). She did not attend the creche or take part in any children's activities during 2nd or and third May 2007..

She was already dead by breakfast time, Tuesday, 2nd May 2007...
"Oh, what a tangled web we weave, when we first practice to deceive"...

Offline David1819

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Re: The case of Madeleine McCann
« Reply #5388 on: December 19, 2020, 08:00:PM »
Not sure what's going on but the McCann's don't seem happy with the German police remarks.

Since they are saying their daughter is dead, its not news any parents would be happy about. Plus they are not revealing details and thus leaving them clinging to hope they might be wrong. Which is kinda cruel if you ask me.

Online handyman

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Re: The case of Madeleine McCann
« Reply #5389 on: December 19, 2020, 09:17:PM »


This link here I down loaded from wikileaks, it gives a detailed analysis on why it is believed the McCanns are responsible.  https://file.wikileaks.org/file/madeleine-foundation-leaflet.doc

Contents

A. Introduction                                                                                       page 2

B. The 30 Key Reasons which suggest that
Madeleine was not abducted                                                               page 5

Reason 2: The evidence of the cadaver dogs                                      pages 6-9

Reason 4: The DNA evidence                                                             pages 11-13

Reason 7: The sheer impossibility of the abduction
  happening in the way it was claimed to have happened            pages 14-20

Reason 9: The McCanns’ false claim that the shutters
  had been jemmied open                                                                     pages 21-22

Reason 15: Making long-term plans to mark
  Madeleine’s alleged abduction                                                        pages 26-27

Reason 16: The constantly-changing stories of Jane Tanner     pages 27-30

Reason 18: The ‘Tapas 9’s ‘Pact of Silence’                                     pages 31-32

Reason 21: The dubious private detective agencies                     
  used by the McCanns                                                                        pages 33-37

C. 30 other reasons which suggest that
Madeleine was not abducted                                                             page 43


Appendix 1 - A summary of evidence of British government
involvement in the case of ‘missing’ Madeleine McCann            page 53

Appendix 2 - Sources of Information on the
Madeleine McCann case                                                                     page 60

« Last Edit: December 19, 2020, 09:37:PM by handyman »

guest29835

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Re: The case of Madeleine McCann
« Reply #5390 on: December 20, 2020, 02:57:AM »

This link here I down loaded from wikileaks, it gives a detailed analysis on why it is believed the McCanns are responsible.  https://file.wikileaks.org/file/madeleine-foundation-leaflet.doc

Contents

A. Introduction                                                                                       page 2

B. The 30 Key Reasons which suggest that
Madeleine was not abducted                                                               page 5

Reason 2: The evidence of the cadaver dogs                                      pages 6-9

Reason 4: The DNA evidence                                                             pages 11-13

Reason 7: The sheer impossibility of the abduction
  happening in the way it was claimed to have happened            pages 14-20

Reason 9: The McCanns’ false claim that the shutters
  had been jemmied open                                                                     pages 21-22

Reason 15: Making long-term plans to mark
  Madeleine’s alleged abduction                                                        pages 26-27

Reason 16: The constantly-changing stories of Jane Tanner     pages 27-30

Reason 18: The ‘Tapas 9’s ‘Pact of Silence’                                     pages 31-32

Reason 21: The dubious private detective agencies                     
  used by the McCanns                                                                        pages 33-37

C. 30 other reasons which suggest that
Madeleine was not abducted                                                             page 43


Appendix 1 - A summary of evidence of British government
involvement in the case of ‘missing’ Madeleine McCann            page 53

Appendix 2 - Sources of Information on the
Madeleine McCann case                                                                     page 60

The document you link to is not the same as the contents you summarise above.  There are only 10 reasons in the document, not 30.  Section C and the appendices are not in the document.

If the linked document is anything to go by, then personally I find the anti-McCann case rather unimpressive against the extravagant claims made.

Let's look at the 10 reasons:

Reason 1: Irrelevant.  Proves nothing.

Reason 2: Unreliable and of no value without additional supporting evidence.  Probably inadmissible anyway.

Reason 3: Irrelevant.  Proves nothing.

Reason 4: Nothing presented here demonstrates that the abduction scenario is "impossible".

Reason 5: Irrelevant.  Proves nothing.  Also selective, since the McCanns have assisted the police at times.

Reason 6: Total non-point.  If the McCanns had nothing to do with the abduction, then how would they know what the abductor did in the apartment?

Reason 7: So what?  Irrelevant.

Reason 8: Proves nothing, even if true.

Reason 9: Irrelevant, and probably misrepresentations anyway.

Reason 10: If Madeleine was abducted, she had no reason to wash 'Cuddle Cat' but also no incentive to do so.  Thus, the point is neutral.  The McCanns are not detectives.

I am neutral.  I am interested in facts and evidence that could form proof.  Based on that document, the anti-McCann camp ought to temper and moderate their claims.

Online handyman

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Re: The case of Madeleine McCann
« Reply #5391 on: December 20, 2020, 06:16:AM »
Quote
The document you link to is not the same as the contents you summarise above.  There are only 10 reasons in the document, not 30.  Section C and the appendices are not in the document.

Sorry posted wrong link, try this.

https://file.wikileaks.org/file/madeleine-foundation-book.doc


Here's the wikileak's file index where I found it.
https://file.wikileaks.org/file/?fbclid=IwAR1Jpo35xdaFKRJmxQSYmjZdG8OSxaaFV20k0TsZrcMrFbGQA6Ri6Qr2XDg
(scroll down)
« Last Edit: December 20, 2020, 06:31:AM by handyman »

guest29835

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Re: The case of Madeleine McCann
« Reply #5392 on: December 20, 2020, 07:57:AM »
Sorry posted wrong link, try this.

https://file.wikileaks.org/file/madeleine-foundation-book.doc


Here's the wikileak's file index where I found it.
https://file.wikileaks.org/file/?fbclid=IwAR1Jpo35xdaFKRJmxQSYmjZdG8OSxaaFV20k0TsZrcMrFbGQA6Ri6Qr2XDg
(scroll down)

I will look at it and may comment.  It's a long document.  I've just had a skim through it and it seems pretty standard fare for Mr Bennett and friends (I assume he is the author).  Lots of conjecture based on assertions about what the McCanns did or didn't do; lots of assumptions about why the McCanns did this or that or didn't do the other; some of the usual armchair psychology; but, thin on the ground when it comes to real evidence - despite claiming otherwise. 

If I were a juror in a trial of the parents for homicide, fraud and concealment of the body, I would want to see some hard evidence.  Mr Bennett's suspicions and speculations would never reach an English criminal court - or at least, I hope not.

I am not saying there is no evidence.  That would be to go too far the other way.  There is some evidence that could - could - point to their involvement, and there are some aspects of their behaviour that do bother me. 

I think the crux of this case - at least, for the moment - is the assertion from Amaral, Bennett and others that an abduction was "impossible".  It is telling that despite all the noise, fire and smoke, we have never got beyond that question.  Based on what I know [I admit my case knowledge is limited], I do not believe "material impossibility" has been established, which is one of the reasons I am inclined provisionally to side with the parents.  Though to be fair, it needn't be impossibility.  Heavy improbability could be enough, but I don't believe that is established either.  If it were, then I agree that the McCanns could - again, only could - be convicted by default.

I have my own approach to true crime cases, which is:

(i). Start with agreed facts and common ground and work from there.

(ii). If there are identifiable suspects or a convicted offender protesting his innocence, look for innocent explanations and opportunities to give him/them the benefit of the doubt.  This allows the case against him/them to be 'stress-tested'.

(iii). Only 'convict' on solid evidence, certain that the person did it, knowing that any remaining doubt is residual and does not go to the core of the case.  A red flag is when a case relies on lots of assumptions about motives, conjectures and 'psychologising' and lots of 'fill in the gaps' arguments.  By analogy, we're told that Jeremy is a monster because he had a heavy breakfast and grinned at the funeral, which is well suspicious.  And that Hugo Boss suit!  In the matter of McCann, Bennett's scarlet memos are full of such things.  It could be that he does have something, but in my view he weakens his position with these irrelevancies.  Less is more.

Yes, they're an odd pair.  Yes, probably they've given a misleading story about their child-minding endeavours. But the question remains: Where's the beef?  At the moment, there isn't any.

You'll excuse me, but when it comes to locking people up for years on end, I have high standards.

Online handyman

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Re: The case of Madeleine McCann
« Reply #5393 on: December 20, 2020, 08:18:AM »
I don't think the case will ever be solved until Maddie's remains are found. Until then it's all speculation be it the McCanns, the German pedo, the Podestas etc.

 Mike's theories are interesting regarding the adjacent derelict buildings & wasteland. I would assume that area would have been the first to have been searched with a fine tooth comb.

Ironically an abduction would have as many difficulties as getting rid of the body. As in removing Maddie from the premises.

« Last Edit: December 20, 2020, 08:20:AM by handyman »

guest29835

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Re: The case of Madeleine McCann
« Reply #5394 on: December 20, 2020, 08:30:AM »
I don't think the case will ever be solved until Maddie's remains are found. Until then it's all speculation be it the McCanns, the German pedo, the Podestas etc.

 Mike's theories are interesting regarding the adjacent derelict buildings & wasteland. I would assume that area would have been the first to have been searched with a fine tooth comb.

Ironically an abduction would have as many difficulties as getting rid of the body. As in removing Maddie from the premises.

I'm not sure.  In England, the authorities can in law bring a homicide prosecution without a body or remains, and that has happened, and I would assume the situation is similar in Portugal.  I think the English courts would also theoretically have jurisdiction if the Portuguese refuse to prosecute the McCanns and/or whatever other individuals, since English criminal courts will claim universal jurisdiction in all but certain specific circumstances, and the McCanns are British citizens.

Again, based on my admittedly limited case knowledge, for me the crux of all this is the viability of the abduction theory.  If it can be shown that abduction was a "material impossibility", then there must be a basis to prosecute the McCanns for homicide (probably manslaughter), fraud and concealment, as their involvement is then the default explanation.  If the child had simply wandered off - the third possibility - she would have been found.  Whether a prosecution on that tenuous basis could - or should - be successful is another matter, but there would be a case to answer.

The German authorities have a suspect, however (as a German speaker) my understanding of what the public prosecutor has been saying is different to everybody else.  What the prosecutor actually says is that there is a suspect and a potential case, but it is not a certainty.  The British media's reporting has been misleading. To my knowledge (I don't follow this case really, so I may have missed it), no statement has been made that the authorities are charging the suspect or that there is definitely a solid case to answer.  Thus, I'm wondering what, if anything, the authorities in Braunschweig have on suspect CB.

Offline mike tesko

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Re: The case of Madeleine McCann
« Reply #5395 on: December 20, 2020, 09:57:AM »
She was already dead by breakfast time, Tuesday, 2nd May 2007...

1. The 3 national mobile telephone operators (TMN, Vodaphone and Optimus) be requested to provide digital support (CD or DVD) with the complete listings of telephone traffic referring to the calls received and made during the period of time from 28th April 2007 t0 9th September 2007 including mobile phone location and trace back, as well as roaming calls and SMS and MMS messages and their respective contents for the following phone numbers:

- 00447786986188 Gerald McCann
- 00447903108397 Kate Healy
- 00447748844837 David Payne
- 00447796272586 Fiona Payne
- 00447790327853 Diane Webster
- 00447713258795 Russell O’Brien
- 00447808584191 Jane Tanner
- 00447771591456 Matthew Oldfield
- 00447818520047 – telephone number that has not yet been identified, which on 2nd May 2007 sent 14 written SMS messages to Gerald McCann and another 4 on the day following Madeleine McCann’s disappearance.


Robert Murat ?
Sergei Malinka ?
Robert Murat ?
Christian B ?


(Additional names will appear here, once things become a little clearer, including names of key Ocean Club staff, maintenance men, drivers, cleaners, child care operatives, chefs, barmen and the priest who was in charge of St Vincents local church where the McCann parents took refuge at night to avoid being hounded by the media /press)..

Phones belonging to them, or used by them during the same periods above...

Whilst ever those who are involved in this tragedy keep gilding the lily by falsely making out that Madeleine went missing between about 9.00am - 10.00am, on the evening of the 3rd May 2007, no evidence will ever emerge that could be used to prosecute them in connection with Madeleine McCanns so called disappearence..

Madeleine McCanns fate was sealed on the evening of the 1st May 2007, whilst the McCann parents and their friends were out drinking down in 'Chaplin's Bar', next to the village church (St Vincents), and the derelict building (no. 5) situated across the road...
« Last Edit: December 20, 2020, 10:18:AM by mike tesko »
"Oh, what a tangled web we weave, when we first practice to deceive"...

Offline mike tesko

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Re: The case of Madeleine McCann
« Reply #5396 on: December 20, 2020, 10:23:AM »
I don't think the case will ever be solved until Maddie's remains are found. Until then it's all speculation be it the McCanns, the German pedo, the Podestas etc.

 Mike's theories are interesting regarding the adjacent derelict buildings & wasteland. I would assume that area would have been the first to have been searched with a fine tooth comb.

Ironically an abduction would have as many difficulties as getting rid of the body. As in removing Maddie from the premises.

But,that's just it, the derelict building and its rear garden which was  close to the local church where the McCann parents took refuge, was not searched at all, until possibly after June 2010, if at all...

The Portuguese police did not know that at the back of the derelict buildings rear garden there was a shallow grave which had been dug by someone and that its precise location was within site of the church clock tower built on hallowed ground! To be considered is why anybody would dig a shallow grave at such a precise location, in a garden where waste was piled up high all over the place. Whoever dug that grave wanted to hide something of significance, otherwise whatever they were disposing of, would have simply been tossed amongst all the other waste and rubbish...
« Last Edit: December 20, 2020, 10:30:AM by mike tesko »
"Oh, what a tangled web we weave, when we first practice to deceive"...

Offline mike tesko

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Re: The case of Madeleine McCann
« Reply #5397 on: December 20, 2020, 10:41:AM »

The Portuguese police did not know that at the back of the derelict buildings rear garden there was a shallow grave which had been dug by someone and that its precise location was within site of the church clock tower built on hallowed ground! To be considered is why anybody would dig a shallow grave at such a precise location, in a garden where waste was piled up high all over the place. Whoever dug that grave wanted to hide something of significance, otherwise whatever they were disposing of, would have simply been tossed amongst all the other waste and rubbish...

What happened to that piece of human bone that I discovered and photographed in the grounds of the rear garden of that derelict building? Did the Portuguese police visit the derelict building and its grounds and seize it? Also clothing which matched that of a suspect seen hanging around suspiciously  near to the McCann apartments poolside walled garden on evening of 1st May 2007?

Who were the Man and Woman seen entering the McCann apartment via the unlocked patio door on the night when Madeleine or one of the other children was continually crying? I thought the McCann parents said that they did not start using and leaving the sliding patio door unlocked until the evening of 2nd May 2007, because they thought that by continuing to use the lockable/ unlockable roadside door it might disturb the children?

How did the as yet unidentified man and woman enter the McCann apartment via the patio door, which could not be locked from outside?
« Last Edit: December 20, 2020, 11:20:AM by mike tesko »
"Oh, what a tangled web we weave, when we first practice to deceive"...

Offline mike tesko

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Re: The case of Madeleine McCann
« Reply #5398 on: December 20, 2020, 03:36:PM »

How did the as yet unidentified man and woman enter the McCann apartment via the patio door, which could not be locked from outside?

Mrs Fenn (Occupant in apartment above McCanns apartment in 5a), got it almost spot on when she described the persistent crying of a toddler coming from the McCann apartment, from between 10.30pm and 11.45pm on the evening of 1st May 2007. Since, at around 10.00pm that same night, rather than the McCann parents and their friends returning back to their respective apartments in block five,  they all cantered down to 'Chaplin's Bar' for late night drinks and revelling. The McCann parents did not return to their apartment until gone midnight (2nd May 2007). Contrary to Mrs Fenn believing that she heard the patio door slide open which coincided with the distressful crying of the toddler stopping, and it being the return of the parents from their late evening binge drinking and cavorting, it beggars belief that the parents would have entered apartment 5A, at what ever time they did arrive back to their apartment, because they did not start leaving the sliding patio door of apartment 5a open until the evening of 2nd May 2007 ( the evening prior to them deciding to break the news that Madeleine had been 'taken', by 'them' on evening of 3rd May 2007)..

I do believe that Mrs Fenn did hear the patio door to apartment 5a, slide open at about 11.45pm, on 1st May 2007, but that it couldn't have been the McCann parents who entered their apartment through the sliding patio door on the poolside of apartment 5a, because as I have pointed out already, the McCann parents did not start leaving the patio door on the poolside of the building until the evening of 2nd May 2007. The parents would have to enter their apartment via the lockable/unlockable  roadside door, on the carpark side of the premises...

If the parents had entered apartment 5a via the lockable/unlockable roadside door on the evening of 1st May 2007, they could then have go on to open the locked sliding patio door from inside the living room, by sliding it open (but for what reason or purpose)? It is possible that it was no coincidence that the crying child stopped crying at the time the patio door slid open, and that Mrs Fenn heard a toddler calling out 'Daddy, daddy, daddy'. But, if that had been the parents returning, then surely both of them would have heard the toddler crying as soon as they returned to their apartment. This makes me wonder whether or not the people who came to collect Madeleine from apartment 5a, had a duplicate pass key for the roadside door of apartment 5a block five, and that at 11.45pm they left the apartment (5a) taking Madeleine with them, out through the sliding patio door..
« Last Edit: December 21, 2020, 02:51:PM by mike tesko »
"Oh, what a tangled web we weave, when we first practice to deceive"...

Offline mike tesko

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Re: The case of Madeleine McCann
« Reply #5399 on: December 21, 2020, 01:49:PM »
What happened to that piece of human bone that I discovered and photographed in the grounds of the rear garden of that derelict building? Did the Portuguese police visit the derelict building and its grounds and seize it? Also clothing which matched that of a suspect seen hanging around suspiciously  near to the McCann apartments poolside walled garden on evening of 1st May 2007?

Who were the Man and Woman seen entering the McCann apartment via the unlocked patio door on the night when Madeleine or one of the other children was continually crying? I thought the McCann parents said that they did not start using and leaving the sliding patio door unlocked until the evening of 2nd May 2007, because they thought that by continuing to use the lockable/ unlockable roadside door it might disturb the children?

How did the as yet unidentified man and woman enter the McCann apartment via the patio door, which could not be locked from outside?

I truly believe that there was/has been political interference in the circumstances surrounding Madeleine McCanns demise...
"Oh, what a tangled web we weave, when we first practice to deceive"...