Was Robert Boutflour a Freemason? (Calling campion)

[gordo30]

Its more likely you should try and understand more instead of making comments based on some self delusional motive to explain something you don't understand.

I am a freemason but then again maybe I shouldn't be telling that to anyone based on your reasoning.

[campion]

 Gordo 69, What is Your point ?

[gordo30]

The point I am trying to make is why try and influence folk regarding the possible membership of an organisation which has no bearing on the case in point. If this man was indeed a freemason then what evidence do you have that it has any bearing on this case at all? Im not sure what you mean by the 69 as my alias has 30!!

I guess what im trying to say is that I won't let you influence people based on some prejudicial viewpoint you have over an institution you obviously know nothing about.

[Lugg]

The point I am trying to make is why try and influence folk regarding the possible membership of an organisation which has no bearing on the case in point. If this man was indeed a freemason then what evidence do you have that it has any bearing on this case at all? Im not sure what you mean by the 69 as my alias has 30!!

I guess what im trying to say is that I won't let you influence people based on some prejudicial viewpoint you have over an institution you obviously know nothing about.

Hmm, interesting development here. I hate to shatter your judgment on campion gordo. But he knows a great deal more about this "organisation" than you give him credit for. To put it briefly, he is a mine of information. If I were you I would consider it an education to listen to what he has to say.

[Lugg]

The point I am trying to make is why try and influence folk regarding the possible membership of an organisation which has no bearing on the case in point. If this man was indeed a freemason then what evidence do you have that it has any bearing on this case at all? Im not sure what you mean by the 69 as my alias has 30!!

I guess what im trying to say is that I won't let you influence people based on some prejudicial viewpoint you have over an institution you obviously know nothing about.

I think I owe people an explanation as to why I posted this thread and asked this question regarding Robert Boutflour?
I did so because it has been taken for granted that he was a Freemason and that this somehow influenced people in high places, who were also Freemasons to appoint someone else in place of Taff Jones to take over the investigation of the WHF murders?
This together with the denial of vidvic in another post that RWB was NOT a Freemason. All I wanted to establish was, was he a Freemason or was he not and it his was, then could it be established with documentary proof.

[gordo30]

Hmm, interesting development here. I hate to shatter your judgment on campion gordo. But he knows a great deal more about this "organisation" than you give him credit for. To put it briefly, he is a mine of information. If I were you I would consider it an education to listen to what he has to say.

You would need an Essex Masonic Yearbook. The main thing with Freemasonry is denial of membership, if someone is challenged regarding involvement, the most common response is denial then to question somebodys mental credentials, whoever it was that asked about Masonic involvement. Then the Smear campaign followed up by social exclusion. The main purpose of membership is a network of influence, Police, Roundtable, Publicans,Accountants, Solicitors, Clergyman,Etc. Farmers being stinking rich landowners are in it by birthright, any development has to go through them. Look at how many are on Councils, Committees and the like.

I really don't mean to be confrontational here about anyone but if what I read here happens to be the extent of his "mine of information" then for want of a better word its crap. I have been party to many people willing to voice their opinion about the brotherhood and unless you have managed to research it with the openess it requires then It becomes rather biased. This read to me like someone who has a dire misconception about the order and who his been directed by that same bias to try and influence others based on his own perception of the order, not very productive to a forum where people require facts to base their opinion on. I am waiting simply for the proof that this gentleman being a member of the craft has any bearing on the case you are discussing.

[gordo30]

I think I owe people an explanation as to why I posted this thread and asked this question regarding Robert Boutflour?
I did so because it has been taken for granted that he was a Freemason and that this somehow influenced people in high places, who were also Freemasons to appoint someone else in place of Taff Jones to take over the investigation of the WHF murders?
This together with the denial of vidvic in another post that RWB was NOT a Freemason. All I wanted to establish was, was he a Freemason or was he not and it his was, then could it be established with documentary proof.

I believe you would also have to prove that if he was a freemason then he had the ability to exercise any influence over a criminal inquiry, would you not?

[Patti]

Am I right in thinking that even if his father was a Freemason, his son would still be well looked after along with his family? 

[gordo30]

I suppose thats the meaning of giving succour to his family but not when such relief could be detrimental to your own family or business. If your thinking that we should simply just roll over and do what we can to assist someone who could easily have been involved with a crime or outcome of a crime then no that goes against every principle of our order.

[gordo30]

Am I right in thinking that even if his father was a Freemason, his son would still be well looked after along with his family? 

I must also add that the whole community benefits from the organisation in that my own mother lodge has helped many individuals both members and families and those not members in terms of benovolence and other aspects, for example we have provided,trained and paid for 5 dogs for the blind all going to non members.

[vidvic]

So he's damned if he was a mason and damned if he wasn't, because of his father?

[gordo30]

So he's damned if he was a mason and damned if he wasn't, because of his father?

Only of course if you believe that someone even a prominent freemason would have the power over a criminal inquiry, he being the son would not have any birthright in terms of his membership and would be taken on his own authority as to his ability to be a member.

[Jane]

I suppose thats the meaning of giving succour to his family but not when such relief could be detrimental to your own family or business. If your thinking that we should simply just roll over and do what we can to assist someone who could easily have been involved with a crime or outcome of a crime then no that goes against every principle of our order.

Gordo I think we all like to believe that members of associations with which we are involved, are as spotless as we are. I have friends and family members who are and have been Masons and whilst I hope they are all as trustworthy as I believe them to be, I'm not naive enough to believe it true of everybody in all orders. FACT!!! There are rotten apples in every barrel, and if by some unholy method they manage to elevate themselves to positions of power, getting rid of them won't be an easy task. Currently, we have JS as an example.

[gordo30]

I agree april but to  attempt to tar the institution with the that very same brush only hinders any rational assessment of the order itself. I believe your talking about human nature and the fact we live in some very troubled times but to suggest that we would simply  cover up or help in this manner is  way off the mark.

I think you will find that we can be as assertive with those who break the rules as those who play by them.

[Patti]

I must also add that the whole community benefits from the organisation in that my own mother lodge has helped many individuals both members and families and those not members in terms of benovolence and other aspects, for example we have provided,trained and paid for 5 dogs for the blind all going to non members.

Hi Gordo30 when you talk about lodge are you referring to the Buffalo lodges?  My first husband was a member, but there were no way he would tell me what went off in there....I do know they supported charities and helped each other out financially.....Once when were on holiday...he saw a fellow Buff, identified by the tiny badge he was wearing....they greeted each other as if they each other all of their lives.......