Hedge or Wall?

[-Harters-]

Quote from Jon

Didn't Hartley tell us there is no hedge ? I thinkhe realized he was wrong when Bews spoke about it on the T.V !!

Nope, I didn't, or at least I don't think so. I said there was a hedge and not a wall, unless you mean something else Jon?   

[jon]

Quote from Jon
Nope, I didn't, or at least I don't think so. I said there was a hedge and not a wall, unless you mean something else Jon?   

I believe you used the phrase ' what hedge ' !!

[-Harters-]

I believe you used the phrase ' what hedge ' !!

Where & when?

[-Harters-]

All I can say is that I know the grounds extremely well, i.e. I know exactly where various walls and hedges are. I can only echo this post by vidvic:

 

Roch, with the greatest respect, my reasons for posting as I did were deeply serious.

Mike started posting an alleged interview with bamber concerning the highly controversial 'figure at the window' / 'trick of the light'. My position on this is quite obvious and I neither believe mike was quoting from bamber, nor do I believe any of the 3 persons concerned saw a person at the window.

About a year ago when this subject was raised I defended my position by pointing out that if indeed bamber had seen anyone at the window more would have been made of it at the time.

Part of mikes response was that bamber didn't realise the significance until several years later when mike explained it to him. Mike felt bamber had been suffering some form of shock.

In the alleged interview it appeared bamber was well aware of the issue and was telling mike. In my view a significant change of story.

When challenged, mike said in his response that he clearly remembered bamber telling him that the ducked behind a low wall and watched from there.

As I know WHF reasonably well I thought, hang on, what wall? Bamber was lying.

I posted an aerial pic of the farm to back up my view that there is no low wall in line of sight of the master bedroom window. Mike got angry and called me a joker and when I stuck to my view, he locked the thread.

Mike posted a diagram of the house and three walls. Wall A is to the side of the house, on the same side the police forced entry. It is curved and ends at a gate. It does not come as far forward as the front of the house and you could not possibly see the master bedroom window from that wall.

Wall B simply does not exist. It is a completely open lawn. I will check next week to see if there ever was a wall there, but there certainly hasn't been one since around '90/'91.

Wall C is around 7ft high and is a form of Italian/greek ornamental garden with a patio in front. It is solid and is a long way from the window. The edge of the wall nearest the house does not have line of sight with the bedroom and the farthest edge from the house is at quite an acute angle to the window and quite a distance.

If mike or anyone else posts something which I clearly know is incorrect then I will continue to argue the case, particularly when I think it shows that bamber must be mistaken or telling porkies.

[vidvic]

And....I confirmed with the family today that there wasn't a wall there in 1985 either...

[guest154]

I've been unable to see a wall (that would match the description) in the photos.....but scared of getting called a joker. I've looked, I've looked again. But I don't see it. Anyone that sees it if they could highlight it in the picture and post it......

[-Harters-]

I've been unable to see a wall (that would match the description) in the photos.....but scared of getting called a joker. I've looked, I've looked again. But I don't see it. Anyone that sees it if they could highlight it in the picture and post it......

I don't know how I can emphasise this any more than I and others have already, there is no wall.

 

Theres no hedge and field on the back (west) only on the front (south), I thought they hid behind a hedge?

I'm not sure what Jon is on about, maybe he misinterpreted this post? 

[guest154]

I don't know how I can emphasise this any more than I and others have already, there is no wall.

 

I agree. I can't see it. I've looked.

[-Harters-]

I agree. I can't see it. I've looked.

I haven't been on for a week or so, did we ever get Bews 16/8/85 statement from Mike? Or not?

[guest154]

I'm not sure. Not that I have seen.

[Bridget]

Unless I missed something the only Bews statement posted was one about the time it took to get from the spot where Bews & co passed JB's car in the lane to WHF.

I haven't been back and checked, but I seem to recall that in Myall's statement / evidence or whatever, he describes the kitchen side of the house, and then says they moved round to a "field" on the main bedroom side. I always thought it was a little a rude to call their front garden a field, but now realise he was in the field the other side of the hedge. That's quite a distance to see something in a window isn't it?

[lookout]

Unless I missed something the only Bews statement posted was one about the time it took to get from the spot where Bews & co passed JB's car in the lane to WHF.

I haven't been back and checked, but I seem to recall that in Myall's statement / evidence or whatever, he describes the kitchen side of the house, and then says they moved round to a "field" on the main bedroom side. I always thought it was a little a rude to call their front garden a field, but now realise he was in the field the other side of the hedge. That's quite a distance to see something in a window isn't it?

You could still see something,better in semi-dark/light as there aren't any distractions,and it's obvious that they were focussed on that window when they saw movement.

[-Harters-]

Unless I missed something the only Bews statement posted was one about the time it took to get from the spot where Bews & co passed JB's car in the lane to WHF.

I haven't been back and checked, but I seem to recall that in Myall's statement / evidence or whatever, he describes the kitchen side of the house, and then says they moved round to a "field" on the main bedroom side. I always thought it was a little a rude to call their front garden a field, but now realise he was in the field the other side of the hedge. That's quite a distance to see something in a window isn't it?

Yes the field is on the other side of the hedge forming the boundary to the formal front garden.

Looking back at one my old posts, I'd like to see Saxbys statement:

 

Okay, here is some more food for thought.

It is alleged that any mention of this sighting was removed and edited out of statements etc, and that Jeremy was in too much shock apparently to realise the importance of this alleged sighting until some years later when Mike pointed it out to him.

Have I got that right? Please somebody correct me if I am wrong.

_________________________________________________________________________

Now this is an extract taken from Jeremys official website, how does that fit in with the stories being presented on this forum? Take particular notice that the incident is brought up at trial!!!
Link to full page: http://www.jeremy-bamber.co.uk/alibis-1

Bews, Myall & Jeremy see movement in the window (after 3.45am)

When Jeremy and the police arrived at White House Farm they saw movement in the master bedroom. Below is an extract from PS Bews trial transcript:

Rivlin: "Do you remember at some stage early on, this happened that one of you Police Officers said that you thought you could see a shadow and you all jumped?"

Bews: "Yes, that is when we first went to the house with Mr Bamber. We had gone round what I thought was the back. We had seen the kitchen door with the light on. We then went into a field which is at the side of the farm house and went went round to where what is - - I believe the front door is and above that is a window. As we moved away I thought we saw something else move, a shadow, something like that. We looked up and after looking for a couple of minutes I was satisfied that it was a - - perhaps a part in the glass that just shone the light slightly as you looked at it."

Rivlin: "It could have been a trick of the light?"

Bews: "I think it was a trick of the light"

It has been stated in a recent interview by Sgt Bews that the movement was just 'the moon' Howver, Saxby's police statement maintains that PS Bews along with PC Myall and Jeremy "came running back from the direction of the farmhouse and PS Bews contacted information room and requested armed assistance and gave a situation report" Did Sgt Bews really call the firearms team out as a result of seeing a reflection of the moon? During the 80's firearms teams would only have come out if the police were seriously threatened by armed persons. If this was a trick of the light - what light source caused it? It was still dark at this time and the moon was on the other side of the house. This was a lone house in a rural area there was no light from external sources. In addition Geoffrey Rivlin QC clearly did not question the witness properly, in this extract the Defence barrister is actually making the suggestion that the witness didn't see a shadow at all but a trick of the light. One of the key features of miscarriages of justice is often poor legal representation.

[tyler]

I would describe myself as someone who is somewhere between 'on the fence' and leaning towards being pro Bamber.I am definitely not an anti - Bamber.
However,I would like to back up the claims that there is no wall at the front of the farmhouse.From memory.if you stand in the field facing the front of the house where the front door is,there is a low hedge,then the front lawn and then the house.Running alongside the field is a farm track.I definitely do not recall any wall.And I am not a joker!

[Patti]

I would describe myself as someone who is somewhere between 'on the fence' and leaning towards being pro Bamber.I am definitely not an anti - Bamber.
However,I would like to back up the claims that there is no wall at the front of the farmhouse.From memory.if you stand in the field facing the front of the house where the front door is,there is a low hedge,then the front lawn and then the house.Running alongside the field is a farm track.I definitely do not recall any wall.And I am not a joker!

Hi Tyler. If you look in the photo section in the archives; there are two photo's in there. One with a wall and one without a wall.....at the front of the house on the left hand side as you view the pic.