Author Topic: starryian  (Read 17051 times)

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Offline Bridget

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Re: starryian
« Reply #45 on: August 01, 2012, 07:59:PM »
Moe, unless starryian has met Jeremy, tested him and come to educated conclusions he can have no more idea than anyone else what Jeremy's mental situation is.  We do know that he has b een tested many times by highly qualified psychologists/psychiatrists.

You might say the same thing about the theories regarding Sheila's mental health.
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Offline Moe Cassani

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Re: starryian
« Reply #46 on: August 01, 2012, 08:04:PM »
Moe, unless starryian has met Jeremy, tested him and come to educated conclusions he can have no more idea than anyone else what Jeremy's mental situation is.  We do know that he has b een tested many times by highly qualified psychologists/psychiatrists.
Yup I understand that. But please also remember that a lot of people are judging Jeremy and they haven't met him either. We can only go by what we read or hear about this case and I think that goes for most of us on here. From reading about a person it is loosely possible to buiuld up a psychological profile..............we all do it. Have you actually met him?

Offline Roch

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Re: starryian
« Reply #47 on: August 01, 2012, 08:04:PM »
You might say the same thing about the theories regarding Sheila's mental health.

Not really.  There is a wealth of information available relating to Sheila's mental health, pre-incident.   None relating to Jeremy.

Offline maggie

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Re: starryian
« Reply #48 on: August 01, 2012, 08:05:PM »
You might say the same thing about the theories regarding Sheila's mental health.
Hi Bridget, except that Sheila was diagnosed as a paranoid schizophrenic who had psychotic episodes, and at extreme risk of suicide.

Offline maggie

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Re: starryian
« Reply #49 on: August 01, 2012, 08:10:PM »
Yup I understand that. But please also remember that a lot of people are judging Jeremy and they haven't met him either. We can only go by what we read or hear about this case and I think that goes for most of us on here. From reading about a person it is loosely possible to buiuld up a psychological profile..............we all do it. Have you actually met him?
No I haven't met him but even if I had, I don't believe I would be in a position to judge whether he is a psychopath/sociopath etc.  They can only be diagnosed  using highly sophisticated tests by highly qualified people.  No one can tell by looking at someone or having a conversation as these people are very cunning and clever at hiding their disorder.

Offline Bridget

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Re: starryian
« Reply #50 on: August 01, 2012, 08:18:PM »
Hi Bridget, except that Sheila was diagnosed as a paranoid schizophrenic who had psychotic episodes, and at extreme risk of suicide.


I don't think that's a particularly accurate summary of what her doctor (who knew her) said.
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Offline maggie

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Re: starryian
« Reply #51 on: August 01, 2012, 08:21:PM »

I don't think that's a particularly accurate summary of what her doctor (who knew her) said.
Bridget, Sheila was dagnosed as a paranoid schizophrnic.  We know Sheila had psychotic episodes.  Any one who knows anything about schizophrenics knows there is a high risk of suicide, that is fact. 
« Last Edit: August 01, 2012, 08:24:PM by maggie »

Offline Bridget

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Re: starryian
« Reply #52 on: August 01, 2012, 08:22:PM »
Not really.  There is a wealth of information available relating to Sheila's mental health, pre-incident.   None relating to Jeremy.

Yes there is, which is why I wonder why people who have never met her and are not psychiatrists feel qualified to decide 27 years later that her doctor was wrong.

I'm not saying they are wrong, just that they're no better (or worse) than starryian.
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Offline Bridget

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Re: starryian
« Reply #53 on: August 01, 2012, 08:23:PM »
Bridget, Sheila was dagnosed as a paranoid schizophrnic.  We know Sheila had psychotic episodes.  Any one who knows anything about schizophrnics knows there is a high risk of suicide, that is fact.

It's not what you said, it's what you left out - such as the doctor's opinion that she would never harm her children and looked to ralph for support.
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Offline maggie

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Re: starryian
« Reply #54 on: August 01, 2012, 08:33:PM »
It's not what you said, it's what you left out - such as the doctor's opinion that she would never harm her children and looked to ralph for support.
Well bridget I think you are splitting hairs.  I cannot see the comparison between a ley person  stating that someone was a psychopath when highly qualified people had stated the opposite 27 times and a ley person stating that a diagnosed paranoid schizophrenic who had known psychotic episodes, who would be at risk of suicide because of the nature of her illness was probably capable of a psychotic episode in a house with guns and ammunition lying round and in such a situation may have killed the other people in the house.  I wouldn't suppose Dr Fergusson would have envisaged such a scenario.  However, no doctor could ever say in certain situations what anyone may or may not do.

Offline elliehickman

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Re: starryian
« Reply #55 on: August 01, 2012, 08:38:PM »
Hi Maggie I am new to this forum but I am already hooked on this case and I believe you are right about Sheila, my friends mother had an identical illness and sadly took her own life. People are too quick to make assumptions that Sheila was not that ill. She was and I know a lot about people with mental health problems. I have recently started to write to Jeremy and I would like to learn more about her state of mind that last week

Offline maggie

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Re: starryian
« Reply #56 on: August 01, 2012, 08:45:PM »
Hi Maggie I am new to this forum but I am already hooked on this case and I believe you are right about Sheila, my friends mother had an identical illness and sadly took her own life. People are too quick to make assumptions that Sheila was not that ill. She was and I know a lot about people with mental health problems. I have recently started to write to Jeremy and I would like to learn more about her state of mind that last week
Hi ellie, good to meet you. It is true that schizophrenia is a very unpredicatable and cruel mental illness.  I had a relative who was schizophrenic, he tried to commit suicide for the first time when he was about 20, in fact that's when his illness was discovered. We have heard some of what Sheila's mood was like the week before the deaths and it seems Sheila was becoming more and more dissasociated and withdrawn which is quite often a sign of the onset of a psychotic episode. 
I think Jeremy is far more clued up about his sister's illness now than he was all those years ago and hopefully will be able to give you some insight.  I have been told he enjoys getting letters and is friendly and quick to reply. ;)
« Last Edit: August 01, 2012, 08:47:PM by maggie »

Offline Roch

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Re: starryian
« Reply #57 on: August 01, 2012, 08:47:PM »
Yes there is, which is why I wonder why people who have never met her and are not psychiatrists feel qualified to decide 27 years later that her doctor was wrong.

I'm not saying they are wrong, just that they're no better (or worse) than starryian.

I'm not getting you at all on this one I'm afraid.  Starryian takes it upon himself to wax lyrical about Jeremy's psychopathy without any evidence whatsoever, other than an excerpt from the Wilkes book relayed to this forum by Vic, which was then seized upon by ex members of this forum, such as Shona / Andrea etc.  Now I'm not downplaying the Wilkes book... but that anecdote is hardly the same as what has now become known about Sheila caffell, re her mental health. 

Offline elliehickman

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Re: starryian
« Reply #58 on: August 01, 2012, 08:52:PM »
Thank you Maggie I have lots of questions I need to ask him. Sheila's state of mind that final week is so important when you consider the lead up to the murders. I don't think anyone was close enough to Sheila to notice how desperate she had become.

Offline Bridget

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Re: starryian
« Reply #59 on: August 01, 2012, 08:55:PM »
Well bridget I think you are splitting hairs.  I cannot see the comparison between a ley person  stating that someone was a psychopath when highly qualified people had stated the opposite 27 times and a ley person stating that a diagnosed paranoid schizophrenic who had known psychotic episodes, who would be at risk of suicide because of the nature of her illness was probably capable of a psychotic episode in a house with guns and ammunition lying round and in such a situation may have killed the other people in the house.  I wouldn't suppose Dr Fergusson would have envisaged such a scenario.  However, no doctor could ever say in certain situations what anyone may or may not do.

I'm not splitting hairs at all, I'm simply pointing out that your summary only included those elements that support your stance and ignored the others. Of course a lay person is ill eqipped to judge, which is the point I'm making. This thread was started to attack starryian for doing exactly what people here do day in day out.

I'm not getting you at all on this one I'm afraid.  Starryian takes it upon himself to wax lyrical about Jeremy's psychopathy without any evidence whatsoever, other than an excerpt from the Wilkes book relayed to this forum by Vic, which was then seized upon by ex members of this forum, such as Shona / Andrea etc.  Now I'm not downplaying the Wilkes book... but that anecdote is hardly the same as what has now become known about Sheila caffell, re her mental health. 

Nothing more has become known about Sheila's mental health - she's dead, it's all just theories. Of course she might have had a psychotic episode etc., that was hardly a ground breaking discovery in the world of scizophrenic research even in 1985, but there's no evidence that she did.

I haven't read Wilkes book yet, what excerpt?
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