Author Topic: The alleged phone call to Jeremy  (Read 1933 times)

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Offline Kaldin

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The alleged phone call to Jeremy
« on: February 02, 2011, 01:12:PM »
I think this subject could do with some clarification, and I'm just assuming here that the phone call did happen.

According to some reports Jeremy said that his father phoned but then the phone went "dead". That is in the police log. Did he mean that the phone call was disconnected or merely that his father stopped speaking?

In some reports it says that he tried to phone back but got no reply, and in others it says he got the engaged signal.

The police logs says that when the GPO checked the line, it was off the hook. One report says that the line was open and all that could be heard was a dog barking. That suggests that the call to Jeremy was not disconnected as such and that Neville had just abandoned the phone call. It's not clear when the GPO checked the line - the police log says it was 3.56 but the appeal document says it was at 4.30.

Does anyone know what would have happened if the call was abandoned but with the line still open? Would it eventually disconnect within a certain time or what?

Would Jeremy have got the engaged signal when he tried to call back?

Offline cazbub

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Re: The alleged phone call to Jeremy
« Reply #1 on: February 02, 2011, 01:46:PM »
I think, THINK, that if the phone recieving the call (Jeremys) is idle for something like a minute, then trying to call back would get the engaged signal.  But then there's the issue that he says he called back straight away with the redial button, which doesn't add up.

Jeremy also says that he doesnt recall hearing the dialtone, as he was half asleep- so who knows if the phone call was ended by someone or Neville just stopped talking.

Offline Kaldin

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Re: The alleged phone call to Jeremy
« Reply #2 on: February 02, 2011, 01:56:PM »
I think, THINK, that if the phone recieving the call (Jeremys) is idle for something like a minute, then trying to call back would get the engaged signal.  But then there's the issue that he says he called back straight away with the redial button, which doesn't add up.

Jeremy also says that he doesnt recall hearing the dialtone, as he was half asleep- so who knows if the phone call was ended by someone or Neville just stopped talking.

I found something on it.

Quote
There was, however, expert evidence called as to the effect of a telephone call having been made from White House Farm to Goldhanger which was then abandoned by the caller with the receiver being left off the cradle, as claimed by the appellant. If such a sequence had occurred, the telephone link would have remained open either until the handset at White House Farm was replaced or until the handset at Goldhanger had been replaced and left in position for a period which could vary from 1 to 2 minutes, when an automatic interruption of the link would take place. Until one or other of these events, the appellant would have been unable to make any call from the Goldhanger telephone.


Jeremy couldn't disconnect the call for a minute or two, then after than he could call the farm but he would get the engaged tone.

So Neville or Sheila didn't disconnect the call, Neville just put the phone down on the side and walked away. He wasn't shot whilst he was on the phone or Jeremy would have heard something.

Offline Pete0001

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Re: The alleged phone call to Jeremy
« Reply #3 on: February 02, 2011, 02:00:PM »
I thought it used to be that the person making the call would have to terminate the call.. i.e. If i called you on the 80's telephone network once the call was finished if you hung up first and then lifted the receiver to make another call and I hadn't hung up my phone yuo would still be connected to me.. I would need to cancel my call before it would free your line.. this is evident in situations where the person being called can hang up the phone and move to the bedroom, office etc and lift the reciever and still be connected to the call.

Offline Kaldin

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Re: The alleged phone call to Jeremy
« Reply #4 on: February 02, 2011, 02:07:PM »
I thought it used to be that the person making the call would have to terminate the call.. i.e. If i called you on the 80's telephone network once the call was finished if you hung up first and then lifted the receiver to make another call and I hadn't hung up my phone yuo would still be connected to me.. I would need to cancel my call before it would free your line.. this is evident in situations where the person being called can hang up the phone and move to the bedroom, office etc and lift the reciever and still be connected to the call.

I think that too, and I think that's what happened. Jeremy said the phone went dead, but he meant that Neville stopped talking and he couldn't hear anything. He probably said hello a few times and then put his phone down and picked it up again to call the farm. He would have heard nothing - no dialling tone or anything because he was still connected to the farm.

He would have put the phone down again and after a minute or two picked it up and this time he would be disconnected and he would have a dialling tone. When he phoned the farm again he got the engaged signal because the phone there was off the hook.

Offline Pete0001

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Re: The alleged phone call to Jeremy
« Reply #5 on: February 02, 2011, 02:13:PM »
He would have put the phone down again and after a minute or two picked it up and this time he would be disconnected and he would have a dialling tone. When he phoned the farm again he got the engaged signal because the phone there was off the hook.

Did they not have telecommunication logs back then? I'm guessing that if a call was made from the farm to Jeremy's house and connected then it makes Jeremys innocence all the more.

Offline Kaldin

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Re: The alleged phone call to Jeremy
« Reply #6 on: February 02, 2011, 02:18:PM »
He would have put the phone down again and after a minute or two picked it up and this time he would be disconnected and he would have a dialling tone. When he phoned the farm again he got the engaged signal because the phone there was off the hook.

Did they not have telecommunication logs back then? I'm guessing that if a call was made from the farm to Jeremy's house and connected then it makes Jeremys innocence all the more.

I've thought the same thing but apparently there were no such records back then.

Offline Kaldin

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Re: The alleged phone call to Jeremy
« Reply #7 on: February 02, 2011, 02:22:PM »
I wonder if Jeremy knew that such records didn't exist though. If the phone call didn't happen he was taking a big risk unless he knew that it couldn't possibly be checked.

Offline Kaldin

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Re: The alleged phone call to Jeremy
« Reply #8 on: February 02, 2011, 02:24:PM »
I wonder if they dusted the phone receiver for fingerprints. If Neville had phoned, his prints would have been the last ones on it.

Offline Pete0001

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Re: The alleged phone call to Jeremy
« Reply #9 on: February 02, 2011, 02:27:PM »
Indeed... and from another part of this site there's mention of a recording from the open phone line in the kitchen..
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Of course the audio recording made from the open telephone line in the kitchen would reveal exactly what was heard in the kitchen at 7.36am when the incident room states that movement and voices were heard
taken from http://www.jeremybamber.com/?q=wireless-message-log_Jeremy_is_.innocent

Who made the recording.. Police or Telephone network? Who actaully says there is a recording?

bb2010

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Re: The alleged phone call to Jeremy
« Reply #10 on: February 02, 2011, 02:29:PM »
sleuthingforjustice.com is the place to have a read. On that forum, Mike Tesko speculates the following

"Let me put things into perspective, by drawing the viewers attention to the fact, that between 8:15am, and 8:30am, DCI Harris spoke to ACC Peter Simpson, on the telephone, from the kitchen at whf, DCI Harris was updating ACC Simpson, as to the latest developments which were and had been occurring inside the farmhouse, and that photograph number 14 (69/15) appears to have been taken, or could have been taken at about 8:25am, or in other words, the picture numbered 14 (69/15) may have been taken during or after or whilst DCI Harris was or had been updating ACC Simpson, and in those circumstances, photograph 6A, which shows the blood fresh and wet looking to be running and leaking from the two wounds upon Sheila's throat/neck, had already been taken upstairs in the bedroom (by that stage)...

Details of the conversation between DCI Harris, and ACC Peter Simpson, have not yet been disclosed, and probably will never be disclosed, because it is anticipated that what DCI Harris spoke to ACC Simpson about, at that time, was the fact that Sheila's body had originally been found downstairs in the region of the kitchen (presumed to be dead), but that she had regained consciousness, and fled upstairs where she was shot for a second time, her body now being inside the main bedroom, upstairs"

Offline Kaldin

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Re: The alleged phone call to Jeremy
« Reply #11 on: February 02, 2011, 02:32:PM »
Indeed... and from another part of this site there's mention of a recording from the open phone line in the kitchen..
Quote
Of course the audio recording made from the open telephone line in the kitchen would reveal exactly what was heard in the kitchen at 7.36am when the incident room states that movement and voices were heard
taken from http://www.jeremybamber.com/?q=wireless-message-log_Jeremy_is_.innocent

Who made the recording.. Police or Telephone network? Who actaully says there is a recording?

I've read that before, and as I recall, one of the police officers said that all proceedings were audio-recorded or something like that, so it's been assumed that there is a recording of that telephone. I haven't seen any proof that there is though. Just more speculation I'm afraid.

Offline Kaldin

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Re: The alleged phone call to Jeremy
« Reply #12 on: February 02, 2011, 02:41:PM »
sleuthingforjustice.com is the place to have a read. On that forum, Mike Tesko speculates the following

"Let me put things into perspective, by drawing the viewers attention to the fact, that between 8:15am, and 8:30am, DCI Harris spoke to ACC Peter Simpson, on the telephone, from the kitchen at whf, DCI Harris was updating ACC Simpson, as to the latest developments which were and had been occurring inside the farmhouse, and that photograph number 14 (69/15) appears to have been taken, or could have been taken at about 8:25am, or in other words, the picture numbered 14 (69/15) may have been taken during or after or whilst DCI Harris was or had been updating ACC Simpson, and in those circumstances, photograph 6A, which shows the blood fresh and wet looking to be running and leaking from the two wounds upon Sheila's throat/neck, had already been taken upstairs in the bedroom (by that stage)...

Details of the conversation between DCI Harris, and ACC Peter Simpson, have not yet been disclosed, and probably will never be disclosed, because it is anticipated that what DCI Harris spoke to ACC Simpson about, at that time, was the fact that Sheila's body had originally been found downstairs in the region of the kitchen (presumed to be dead), but that she had regained consciousness, and fled upstairs where she was shot for a second time, her body now being inside the main bedroom, upstairs"

So the allegation is that Harris used the phone in the kitchen to speak to Simpson. I can find no factual reports of that. The only thing I can find in the official appeal document is that DS Ainsley said the phone in the office was used by one of the firearms officers.