"Womans body" seen in Kitchen through Kitchen window (PS Adams)...

[mike tesko]

"Womans body" seen in Kitchen through Kitchen window (PS Adams)

PS Adams received a message which was passed by a member of the raid team, that a womans body could be seen through the kitchen window...

Please click on image to enlarge...

[Kaldin]

Adams said in his statement that he was told that a woman's body could be seen in the kitchen through the window, but he then said that when the police got into the house he was informed that the body was in fact that of a man.

Is it not possible that the confusion arose about how many bodies were in the kitchen because of this? If there were messages being passed that there was a woman, and then another message that there was a man, it could be interpreted as there being two bodies - a man and a woman when in fact there just one - that of Neville Bamber.

[bb2010]

It seems that would be the plausible interpretation of the statement above.

[Kaldin]

It seems that would be the plausible interpretation of the statement above.

I just don't buy this theory that Sheila was in the kitchen and then went upstairs after the police left the room. To me that sounds totally unlikely. I know that the police logs mention one male and one female but I think that could be because of the confusion as to whether the one body in the kitchen was male or female.

[mike tesko]

Ralph Bambers body was sat on a wooden chair behind the internal kitchen door before the police forced their way into the kitchen, and no-one could have seen Ralph's body sat there, from the vantage point of the kitchen window, to enable a police officer to mistakenly identify Ralph's body for that of a dead female - body was in a blind spot...

[Kaldin]

Adams said in his statement that he was told that a woman's body could be seen in the kitchen through the window, but he then said that when the police got into the house he was informed that the body was in fact that of a man.

Is it not possible that the confusion arose about how many bodies were in the kitchen because of this? If there were messages being passed that there was a woman, and then another message that there was a man, it could be interpreted as there being two bodies - a man and a woman when in fact there just one - that of Neville Bamber.

Kaldin, please read topic: DPP responsible for creation of second file, under SC/786/85
Just copy & paste this into the search facility near the top of the page and hit return. There are lots of other older posts that are also very interesting. DPP is what the CPS used to be called.

Thanks - will do. I'm getting confused with all these threads on here.

[mike tesko]

Adams said in his statement that he was told that a woman's body could be seen in the kitchen through the window, but he then said that when the police got into the house he was informed that the body was in fact that of a man.

Is it not possible that the confusion arose about how many bodies were in the kitchen because of this? If there were messages being passed that there was a woman, and then another message that there was a man, it could be interpreted as there being two bodies - a man and a woman when in fact there just one - that of Neville Bamber.

Kaldin, please read topic: DPP responsible for creation of second file, under SC/786/85
Just copy & paste this into the search facility near the top of the page and hit return. There are lots of other older posts that are also very interesting. DPP is what the CPS used to be called.

Thanks - will do. I'm getting confused with all these threads on here.

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No explanation has ever been given for why according to the contents of the police radio message logs, only three bodies were found upstairs?

[smiffy]

I am not satisfied with the excuse being proffered as to the body seen through the kitchen window as being mis identified.

 "A woman's body could be seen in the kitchen through the window"

this is very vague...  It would be better to say a womans body WAS seen in the kitchen through the window.
the lack of commitment to the statement may well indicate some deception on this issue.
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Ok  have  a police officer look through the window....

it is best if he can report as much information as possible to his colleagues?...we are talking firearms and risk of death here...not mickey mouse games!!!!

If you were looking through the window .....and you were not sure of the sex of the person you were looking at ...would you decide to give it a sex..ie male or female ..or just leave it open and say a body or somebody....?

to give what your looking at a sex then something positive must be behind the claim.

the claim is a womans body....while it does not state alive or dead the implication is dead by use of the term body than just  a woman lying down or appears unconcious

again the implication of using body is that the person is not moving or something can be seen to form the view that death could be implied...such as seeing blood on the victim.

We also have the vagueness of the statement..withheld information which suggests deception.
this information would be critical for the firearms team...where in the kitchen was the "womans body"
surely the officer who claims to look was able to state where this womans body was.

If indeed there was womans body and the males body could not be seen from the window..then that is why only one body was reported.

[sc82]

Adams said in his statement that he was told that a woman's body could be seen in the kitchen through the window, but he then said that when the police got into the house he was informed that the body was in fact that of a man.

Is it not possible that the confusion arose about how many bodies were in the kitchen because of this? If there were messages being passed that there was a woman, and then another message that there was a man, it could be interpreted as there being two bodies - a man and a woman when in fact there just one - that of Neville Bamber.

Kaldin, please read topic: DPP responsible for creation of second file, under SC/786/85
Just copy & paste this into the search facility near the top of the page and hit return. There are lots of other older posts that are also very interesting. DPP is what the CPS used to be called.

Thanks - will do. I'm getting confused with all these threads on here.

------------------------------------------------------------------

No explanation has ever been given for why according to the contents of the police radio message logs, only three bodies were found upstairs?

I'd thought that too Kaldin's but I watched the Crimes that shook Britain documentary again last night and it made mention of some logs clearly showing 3 bodies were found upstairs. I'd forgotten about that point.  Either that or someone couldn't count 

[smiffy]

the words used in the log

"3 further bodies"....."further" indicates a previous find in addition to what was found before .

not 4 further bodies ..

1 murder  male and 1 suicide female being spoken of previously are not conversant with the later claims but do support 2 bodies  being encountered in the kitchen.

There is a lot of difference in appearance between a 6 foot 4 inch grey haired 62 year old man and a  5 foot 7 or 8 inch dark haired female in her 20's.

not easy to mistake one would think....not for police officers who are supposed to be trained observers and being extra vigilant due to expected firearms.

The kitchen light was switched on so there should have been no problems for the viewer of the womans body to not be able to claim it was dark. It was August as well so by 7.30 am it was not dark outside.


If it was ONLY the claim about seeing a woman's body thorugh the kitchen window then it would appear more likely that it was a mistake.
The other reports from the radio logs  however undermine the chance of it being an error very heavily indeed.

[Kaldin]

If these logs have been introduced as a grounds for appeal, can the CCRC not call on the firearms team to make statements? I'm not convinced that Sheila was downstairs but I do think the logs need explaining because there is room for doubt there. If I was on the CCRC I'd want to know what they meant.

[porthouse]

If these logs have been introduced as a grounds for appeal, can the CCRC not call on the firearms team to make statements? I'm not convinced that Sheila was downstairs but I do think the logs need explaining because there is room for doubt there. If I was on the CCRC I'd want to know what they meant.

The CCRC have looked into this and taken statements and to be honest is just going over old ground and was proved that the officer made the mistake saying he thought it was a woman and thats when it was written one dead male and female when in fact it was only one dead male.

[John]

If these logs have been introduced as a grounds for appeal, can the CCRC not call on the firearms team to make statements? I'm not convinced that Sheila was downstairs but I do think the logs need explaining because there is room for doubt there. If I was on the CCRC I'd want to know what they meant.

The CCRC have looked into this and taken statements and to be honest is just going over old ground and was proved that the officer made the mistake saying he thought it was a woman and thats when it was written one dead male and female when in fact it was only one dead male.

Didn't someone state yesterday that there has been a falling out between Jeremy and the CCRC, what is all that about?

Surely that will mean the end of any possible referral.

[porthouse]

If these logs have been introduced as a grounds for appeal, can the CCRC not call on the firearms team to make statements? I'm not convinced that Sheila was downstairs but I do think the logs need explaining because there is room for doubt there. If I was on the CCRC I'd want to know what they meant.

The CCRC have looked into this and taken statements and to be honest is just going over old ground and was proved that the officer made the mistake saying he thought it was a woman and thats when it was written one dead male and female when in fact it was only one dead male.

Didn't someone state yesterday that there has been a falling out between Jeremy and the CCRC, what is all that about?

Surely that will mean the end of any possible referral.

He wants the negatives off the CCRC but the CCRC don't own the negatives and Bambers legal team are allowed to go and see them themselves and have not. If this is all he is relying on his referral is doomed, else why make all this fuss.

[sandy]

If these logs have been introduced as a grounds for appeal, can the CCRC not call on the firearms team to make statements? I'm not convinced that Sheila was downstairs but I do think the logs need explaining because there is room for doubt there. If I was on the CCRC I'd want to know what they meant.

The CCRC have looked into this and taken statements and to be honest is just going over old ground and was proved that the officer made the mistake saying he thought it was a woman and thats when it was written one dead male and female when in fact it was only one dead male.

Didn't someone state yesterday that there has been a falling out between Jeremy and the CCRC, what is all that about?

Surely that will mean the end of any possible referral.

I mentioned it since i was informed of a huge rift between Jeremy and the CCRC over legal issues.  Thus why Jeremy had asked for the forum to be taken down.  Apparently the CCRC don't like public criticism of any sort, goes against their already tarnished image.