Author Topic: If no-one disturbed anything - how did police enter the kitchen?  (Read 6611 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Offline mike tesko

  • Administrator
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 47406
If no-one disturbed anything - how did police enter the kitchen?

If nobody touched anything, or moved anything until after PC Bird took his pictures in the kitchen, please will somebody explain to me (somebody preferably from the Jeremy Bamber is guilty brigade) exactly how the firearms team managed to get into the kitchen through the door that is so obviously blocked off in thjis crime scene photographs?

Now...


Either somebody did move something and the police are lying about this as part of some sort of a cover up, or they didn't move anything, now is it too much to ask for an honest answer?
"Oh, what a tangled web we weave, when we first practice to deceive"...

tyler

  • Guest
Maybe,just maybe..........all of that blood isn't necessarily all Nevill's?


Sorry,I know that wasnt the question you asked.I was just thinking out loud.
« Last Edit: July 20, 2011, 11:49:AM by tyler »

Offline haughton

  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 326
I am sure that I read that when the police realised that a "dead body" with gun had vanished they panicked , blocked the door, and waited for back-up

chochokeira

  • Guest
If no-one disturbed anything - how did police enter the kitchen?

If nobody touched anything, or moved anything until after PC Bird took his pictures in the kitchen, please will somebody explain to me (somebody preferably from the Jeremy Bamber is guilty brigade) exactly how the firearms team managed to get into the kitchen through the door that is so obviously blocked off in thjis crime scene photographs?

Now...


Either somebody did move something and the police are lying about this as part of some sort of a cover up, or they didn't move anything, now is it too much to ask for an honest answer?


Remarkably quiet around here, Mike...you can almost hear the silence...

Offline mike tesko

  • Administrator
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 47406
If no-one disturbed anything - how did police enter the kitchen?

If nobody touched anything, or moved anything until after PC Bird took his pictures in the kitchen, please will somebody explain to me (somebody preferably from the Jeremy Bamber is guilty brigade) exactly how the firearms team managed to get into the kitchen through the door that is so obviously blocked off in thjis crime scene photographs?

Now...


Either somebody did move something and the police are lying about this as part of some sort of a cover up, or they didn't move anything, now is it too much to ask for an honest answer?


Remarkably quiet around here, Mike...you can almost hear the silence...
-------------

Now...

is this a coincidence or not?

The part of PS Woodcocks statement which starts to deal with when the police first entered the kitchen, has been edited and typed out by use of a completely different typewriter - now, my point is this, (1) does the sighting of the female body in the kitchen from the vantage point of outside the kitchen window have anything at all to do with this, (2) does the discovery of one dead male and one dead fem,ale upon entry into the kitchen have anything at all to do with this, and (3) does the suggestion that6 police moved nothing and touched nothing have anything to do with this?

Just to recap - (1) police saw a female body in the Kitchen behind the kitchen door (fact), (2) police did discover bodies of one dead male, and the body of one dead female in the kitchen upon entry (fact), and (3) Police did move things around before PC Bird started to take his crime scene photographs (fact)...

it is as plain as a pike staff, that the editing of PS Woodcocks statement at the relevant part where he describes the entry into the kitchen is / was part oif the cover up...

Now...

PS Woodcock works for Special Branch, so what link does Special branch, if any have to this case, and the cover up regarding these deaths?
"Oh, what a tangled web we weave, when we first practice to deceive"...

Newbury1

  • Guest
I am still amazed at the work of the Defence Team (DT) at trial. It is virtually inconceivable that the murderer would have placed NB's body in that bizarre position.

If NB had fallen from the chair shortly after death his body would still be relaxed and he would have sprawled on the floor and the murderer would have simply left him there (why move the body and get covered in blood).

I for one am totally convinced that NB died sitting in the arm chair that was positioned behind the door EP eventually entered the kitchen by.

Surely the DT could have made more of this, in that NB's body has in someway been moved some time after he died (as indicated by the rig. mort. that has clearly set in).

For the murderer to have placed NB like that and then place his head in a coal scuttle is just ridiculous.

I assume the jury (and the DT) saw this photo (in full) and did not question what they saw?
« Last Edit: July 20, 2011, 04:08:PM by Nick59 »

Offline mike tesko

  • Administrator
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 47406
I am still amazed at the work of the Defence Team (DT) at trial. It is virtually inconceivable that the murderer would have placed NB's body in that bizarre position.

If NB had fallen from the chair shortly after death his body would still be relaxed and he would have sprawled on the floor and the murderer would have simply left him there (why move the body and get covered in blood).

I for one am totally convinced that NB died sitting in the arm chair that was positioned behind the door EP eventually entered the kitchen by.

Surely the DT could have made more of this, in that NB's body has in someway been moved some time after he died (as indicated by the rig. mort. that has clearly set in).

For the murderer to have placed NB like that and then place his head in a coal scuttle is just ridiculous.

I assume the jury (and the DT) saw this photo (in full) and did not question what they saw?
----------------

I do not think this picture was available to the court at the time the trial took place...

we now know, for example, that Essex police produced an edited photographs schedule which claimed that there only existed 223 pictures that had been taken in connection with this investigation, these were referred to as (1) THE MASTER COPY ALBUM and the crown had 50 of these produced in another album that was for use at the trial, which became known or referred to as (2) THE COURT ALBUM and these were the pictures which the jury had access to...

Whilst all along, there existed a third album which consisted of 358 pictures, that was kept under lock and key inside ACC peter Simpsons office safe, which were known as (3) THE SENIOR INVESTIGATING OFFICERS ALBUM

The picture posted on this thread, was not provided for the attention of the court, but was locked away under lock and key in ACC Peter Simpsons safe, unfortunately...

I will be posting evidence of the first two photographic albums in due course for the attention of those interested, and to facilitate debate...
"Oh, what a tangled web we weave, when we first practice to deceive"...

Offline mike tesko

  • Administrator
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 47406
I should think it is fairly obvious to anybody who cares to want to know the truth about whether or not the police found Ralph's body in that position, or if the police moved it into that position, or if the killer moved it into that position, to see that Ralph Bamber could not, did not fall naturally into the position he ended up being photographed in by PC Bird?

Rigor mortis had clearly set in before Ralph's body was sent crashing or tumbling into its last final resting place, and careful examination of the scene suggests in the strongest possible terms that it must have been, was the police who toppled over Ralph's body from a seated position behind the internal kitchen door through which the police needed to enter into the kitchen. What happened was that police officers forced the door open and the pressure exerted was eventually sufficient to topple his body over. Once his body was toppled over, the police arranged for his head to be placed in the coal bucket with a view to controlling the blood which had spilled out of wounds to the head after the plugs of clotted blood which had originally sealed the entry wounds, became detached as a result of the sudden and violent movement of his body during displacement...

Now whilst on the subject of Ralph's body being behind the door on the chair - if this was the body which PC Colljns reportedly saw from his vantage point outside the kitchen window, what the hell were the police doing trying to get into the kitchen by that route? Why would the police deliberately want to disturb the crime scene by having to use the leverage of the internal door to topple him over? It just doesn't make sense. This leads me to conclude that (a) that the firearms team did not know that Ralph's body was behind the door and this was why they ended up toppling his body over and sending it crashing to the kitchen floor, and (b) the female body must have been elsewhere within sight of PC Collins from the vantage point of the kitchen window...

« Last Edit: July 20, 2011, 04:41:PM by mike tesko »
"Oh, what a tangled web we weave, when we first practice to deceive"...

Offline mike tesko

  • Administrator
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 47406
Look more closely, you can see that the police placed cushions from the chairs around the base of the coal bucket and a towel and a pair of cotton trousers there, with the specicif intention of trying to control the spearead of blood whuch started to flow from the wounds to ralphs head after the police toppled his body over...

Sheila would not have been bothered sufficiently to put the cushions there, or the towel there, or the pair of cotton trousers there, for that purpose...

Anybody who killed Ralph and the others would not have placed those items there if the intention had been to blame Sheila for all the deaths...


Its as simple as that really...

The police say they did not touch or move anything - they are liars, and scumbags, and they should all be in jail, for this...
« Last Edit: July 20, 2011, 04:48:PM by mike tesko »
"Oh, what a tangled web we weave, when we first practice to deceive"...

Offline mike tesko

  • Administrator
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 47406
Somebody collected up three different cushion covers, from the chairs that were toppled over, after the chairs were toppled over and used them to control the spread of blood from Ralph's head wounds...

Why would Sheila do this?

Why would any would be killer do this?

Why would the police do this - to try and control the spread of blood around on the kitchen floor, its so obvious that the police are responsible for carrying put this exercise...

If the police did not do this, it would have formed part of the case against Jeremy being the killer, or not...
"Oh, what a tangled web we weave, when we first practice to deceive"...

Offline shonapugs

  • Veteran Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 2669
Re: If no-one disturbed anything - how did police enter the kitchen?
« Reply #10 on: July 20, 2011, 05:02:PM »
Mike, Ralph's body bled when it was disturbed, although he had been dead for some time. Could that have happened to Sheila? Could her neck wound have leaked when she was moved, perhaps from off the bed?

I know I've asked this recently, but sometimes posts get overlooked.

Offline curiousessex

  • Senior Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 1404
  • ROCH INDEX 70
Re: If no-one disturbed anything - how did police enter the kitchen?
« Reply #11 on: July 20, 2011, 05:09:PM »
Look more closely, you can see that the police placed cushions from the chairs around the base of the coal bucket and a towel and a pair of cotton trousers there, with the specicif intention of trying to control the spearead of blood whuch started to flow from the wounds to ralphs head after the police toppled his body over...

If the above applies does this not rule out the defence argument that Sheila could not have been dead since circa 3.00 am because she had what appears to be wet blood running from her mouth. A part of the same argument for the defence is that Sheila's body was moved which if it is the case will have started the flow of blood from Sheila's wounds and mouth if the same is applied etc.

Sheila would not have been bothered sufficiently to put the cushions there, or the towel there, or the pair of cotton trousers there, for that purpose...

Anybody who killed Ralph and the others would not have placed those items there if the intention had been to blame Sheila for all the deaths...


Its as simple as that really...

The police say they did not touch or move anything - they are liars, and scumbags, and they should all be in jail, for this...

Offline mike tesko

  • Administrator
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 47406
Re: If no-one disturbed anything - how did police enter the kitchen?
« Reply #12 on: July 20, 2011, 05:30:PM »
Mike, Ralph's body bled when it was disturbed, although he had been dead for some time. Could that have happened to Sheila? Could her neck wound have leaked when she was moved, perhaps from off the bed?

I know I've asked this recently, but sometimes posts get overlooked.
--------------

This is a good point...

My explanation is as follows:-

Rigor mortis had clearly set in, in Ralph's case, before his body was displaced and sent crashing to the kitchen floor, which in turn detached the coagulated plugs of blood and released blood that was trapped in the tracks made by the bullets...

In Sheila's case, rigor mortis had not set in...

However...

In Sheila's case, movement of her body after she was killed caused some of the blood that exited from the sides of her mouth and into the socket of her left eye, to run in different directions...

There is / was no evidence that any blood that exited from the lower non fatal wound, changed direction at any stage, other than in a general vertical direction, and that blood from this wound did not flow from the lower wound at the time her body was displaced...

How strange, that blood should only be visibly flowing from the upper wound, not the lower one, and that there exists evidence that blood which had previously ran from the lower non fatal wound, was almost invisible to the naked eye, and that blood from the upper wounds had no such similar characteristics - evidence which I suggest separates both wounds apart from one another...

"Oh, what a tangled web we weave, when we first practice to deceive"...

Offline mike tesko

  • Administrator
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 47406
Re: If no-one disturbed anything - how did police enter the kitchen?
« Reply #13 on: July 20, 2011, 05:47:PM »
Who collected up all these cushion covers from the overturned wooden chairs in the kitchen, and the towel, and the pair of cotton trousers, and placed them around the base of the coal bucket?
« Last Edit: July 20, 2011, 05:49:PM by mike tesko »
"Oh, what a tangled web we weave, when we first practice to deceive"...

chochokeira

  • Guest
Re: If no-one disturbed anything - how did police enter the kitchen?
« Reply #14 on: July 20, 2011, 08:53:PM »
I should think it is fairly obvious to anybody who cares to want to know the truth about whether or not the police found Ralph's body in that position, or if the police moved it into that position, or if the killer moved it into that position, to see that Ralph Bamber could not, did not fall naturally into the position he ended up being photographed in by PC Bird?

Rigor mortis had clearly set in before Ralph's body was sent crashing or tumbling into its last final resting place, and careful examination of the scene suggests in the strongest possible terms that it must have been, was the police who toppled over Ralph's body from a seated position behind the internal kitchen door through which the police needed to enter into the kitchen. What happened was that police officers forced the door open and the pressure exerted was eventually sufficient to topple his body over. Once his body was toppled over, the police arranged for his head to be placed in the coal bucket with a view to controlling the blood which had spilled out of wounds to the head after the plugs of clotted blood which had originally sealed the entry wounds, became detached as a result of the sudden and violent movement of his body during displacement...

Now whilst on the subject of Ralph's body being behind the door on the chair - if this was the body which PC Colljns reportedly saw from his vantage point outside the kitchen window, what the hell were the police doing trying to get into the kitchen by that route? Why would the police deliberately want to disturb the crime scene by having to use the leverage of the internal door to topple him over? It just doesn't make sense. This leads me to conclude that (a) that the firearms team did not know that Ralph's body was behind the door and this was why they ended up toppling his body over and sending it crashing to the kitchen floor, and (b) the female body must have been elsewhere within sight of PC Collins from the vantage point of the kitchen window...


Excellent points! +1