Author Topic: the man who shouldent be king.  (Read 1033 times)

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Offline nugnug

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the man who shouldent be king.
« on: February 26, 2021, 09:32:PM »

Offline Steve_uk

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Re: the man who shouldent be king.
« Reply #1 on: February 26, 2021, 10:57:PM »
https://youtu.be/TGamLrHlikc
There's some truth in this, and of course if you're a socialist you're far more likely to want to do away with him. I agree that tenants on his Duchy of Cornwall estate should have the same rights as any other tenant in the UK by law. Some of his interventions were at the request of local residents (for example the Chelsea Barracks development) and I'm all for homeopathy for the less serious medical conditions. The bottom line though is that the Establishment since the Edward VIII debacle is frightened that the monarch of the day won't carry out the job and the sycophancy and the money thrown at them has increased in direct proportion to these fears.

Offline nugnug

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Re: the man who shouldent be king.
« Reply #2 on: February 27, 2021, 10:56:AM »
well then you have andrrew we no what he gets up to you have harry who wabts to ban everything the you have the queen calling people selfish for not wanting an expremtal vacine i am starting to think the french had the right idea.

time to get the guiltines out.

Offline Steve_uk

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Re: the man who shouldent be king.
« Reply #3 on: February 27, 2021, 11:55:AM »
well then you have andrrew we no what he gets up to you have harry who wabts to ban everything the you have the queen calling people selfish for not wanting an expremtal vacine i am starting to think the french had the right idea.

time to get the guiltines out.
The Scandinavians have a monarchy, which makes me think that it can't be such a bad idea. You only have to look at Harry and Meghan's $100million Netfix deal to realize that the Royals would be commercial whether they were carrying out charitable duties on the nation's behalf or not. I suppose if you're a Republican you could strip them of the income from the Crown Estate and make them stand on their own two feet, but as sycophancy in the capitalist system as it stands is rife I fear the consequences if we do go down that route.

guest29835

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Re: the man who shouldent be king.
« Reply #4 on: February 27, 2021, 12:46:PM »
I am not an enthusiast for the monarchy, but I think most arguments against the monarchy are dull-witted and are normally made by people who are uneducated in the country's civics and history.

Unfortunately, I lost patience with the video.  They have an axe to grind.  What the Prince of Wales does on his estate may be good, bad or indifferent, but that is no commentary on whether we should retain a monarchy. 

Some argue against the hereditary principle, but some sort of practical hereditary is part of everybody's lives.  Most of us have children.  Most of us want the best for our children.  Or if you don't have children, you must still have a sense that children and the next generations are part of a continuing thread of existence that we call society.  You leave property to your children for this reason, or if you have no children, you nominate people that you trust whom you believe will carry out what you would want.  You don't just leave it random strangers or convene a ballot of your neighbours and give them a chance to inherit instead of your own children on the basis that this is, after all, 'only fair and democratic'.

You may say that it doesn't follow that the country as a whole should be organised with hereditary principles in mind.  Why not?  It's as fair a way of doing things as any other. Would it better if the plumbing businessman, Charlie Mullins, mistreats Duchy tenants instead of a whiggish royal aristocrat who allegedly talks to plants?  Will it make them feel better if they can speak to that Charlie instead of the other one?  Will that make things fairer?  Furthermore, in matters of politics, electing people doesn't always lead to nice results, as we can see, and I have have seen nothing to suggest that electing somebody as the country's pinnacle would represent any improvement.

Personally, I prefer a mixture of the two systems: a bit of hereditary and tradition, but open to the best in society to be appointed to positions of responsibility.  I reiterate that I am not an enthusiastic monarchist and personally I would prefer to see Britain retain some sort of similar system but without a Royal Family.  I don't refer to the Dutch or Scandinavian options, rather I am thinking of an entirely new system altogether that calls back deep into England's history.  But that is complicated to explain and beyond the scope of this discussion.

Offline Steve_uk

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Re: the man who shouldent be king.
« Reply #5 on: February 27, 2021, 01:21:PM »
I think a fair gripe might be that the Royals use their privilege to interfere with the democratic process, whether it be laws that would otherwise affect them directly, such as Inheritance Tax rules or other favorable taxation rules as outlined in the video, the Race Relations Act or the ban on same-sex marriages in the Church of England. I'm sure there are other examples. There's simply no need for the monarch of the day to be so wealthy or be treated with such obsequiousness, though of course if you're a Marxist you would classify them at the top of a pyramid, the structure of which in any case you would wish to destroy.

guest29835

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Re: the man who shouldent be king.
« Reply #6 on: February 27, 2021, 01:32:PM »
I think a fair gripe might be that the Royals use their privilege to interfere with the democratic process, whether it be laws that would otherwise affect them directly, such as Inheritance Tax rules or other favorable taxation rules as outlined in the video, the Race Relations Act or the ban on same-sex marriages in the Church of England. I'm sure there are other examples. There's simply no need for the monarch of the day to be so wealthy or be treated with such obsequiousness, though of course if you're a Marxist you would classify them at the top of a pyramid, the structure of which in any case you would wish to destroy.

But meritocratically-rich and -wealthy people would, and do, also use their influence to interfere in the 'democratic process'.  I don't understand why you think there's a difference.

Also, why shouldn't rich people interfere in that way?  You could argue that, being rich, they have the right to.  Why is it even wrong?

And why shouldn't Prince Charles use his influence on the government-of-the-day?  He is a Prince of the Realm and he has knowledge and expertise in certain fields, including architecture, housing and farming.  Why shouldn't he?  Why is it wrong for him to do so?

And what is this 'democratic process'?  For lengthy periods during the last 12 months, I have been under threat of official harassment and fines, just for leaving the house, as if I'm a convicted offender.  What 'democratic process' are you referring to?

Offline Steve_uk

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Re: the man who shouldent be king.
« Reply #7 on: February 27, 2021, 01:54:PM »
If a law is passed by the House of Commons it's classified as legitimate. As far as the monarch of the day is concerned he or she is supposed to be above politics, above getting their hands dirty if you will. That's the main justification for having them.

guest29835

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Re: the man who shouldent be king.
« Reply #8 on: February 28, 2021, 12:44:PM »
If a law is passed by the House of Commons it's classified as legitimate. As far as the monarch of the day is concerned he or she is supposed to be above politics, above getting their hands dirty if you will. That's the main justification for having them.

I think what you say above reflects a very common misunderstanding, which even educated people repeat as if it's gospel.  I believe you are mistaken.  In fact, the Queen is supposed to be impartial, but that does not mean she is supposed to be neutral.  Her role is political and she can, if she wishes, intervene in politics. There is even an argument that it is her duty to do so, and one of the popular criticisms of her is her failure to do so.  In any event, it's fundamental to her role to do so, though I would completely accept that she should be extremely circumspect and cautious in doing so, and it probably should be rare.

Ironically, Elizabeth II is perhaps the most political of all the late modern monarchs.  Consider for instance the Queen's Annual Christmas Message.  What she says is extremely political and ideological.  That brings us to what disappoints me about Her Majesty and why I believe she is one of the worst monarchs in this country's history.  It is not the fact she intervenes that bothers me, it is what she says.  If you search on YouTube or through some other source one of her early televised Xmas addresses from the 1950s, you will notice that she is a happy young woman, and her message is traditional and positive, and she has a certain warmth and charm about her.  Now, in her old age, her messages have become patronising, preachy and ideological, in tune with the toxic orthodoxy of the time.  I think part of her problem is her brand of Christianity: Calvinism.  It can be easily twisted into a self-abnegating mindset.

She did not stand against the times.  She should have been steadfast in 1997, instead she relented and then gave away more and more, thinking this would save the Windsor dynasty and/or the Monarchy.  I think this was wrong.  She should have got her hands dirty, but for the opposite side.  Better still, she could have simply maintained a studied silence in the face of it all - that would have sent a powerful message too.

I don't personally believe in mass democracy.  I think people voting on things is dumb.  Liberty is the system I prefer, though that is a misnomer because it is not really a 'system'.  It is more of a philosophy that depends on each person practicing the same broad value of leaving other people alone, with interference only to the extent needed.  I think in that way of life, most problems would sort out themselves, mainly through voluntary decisions and choices.

Law should be for the courts, not Parliament.  Parliament should only intervene in society in very extreme circumstances, such as national territorial defence or a genuinely lethal pandemic that has scores of healthy people dropping dead in the streets, etc.

Offline Steve_uk

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Re: the man who shouldent be king.
« Reply #9 on: February 28, 2021, 03:27:PM »
I think what you say above reflects a very common misunderstanding, which even educated people repeat as if it's gospel.  I believe you are mistaken.  In fact, the Queen is supposed to be impartial, but that does not mean she is supposed to be neutral.  Her role is political and she can, if she wishes, intervene in politics. There is even an argument that it is her duty to do so, and one of the popular criticisms of her is her failure to do so.  In any event, it's fundamental to her role to do so, though I would completely accept that she should be extremely circumspect and cautious in doing so, and it probably should be rare.

Ironically, Elizabeth II is perhaps the most political of all the late modern monarchs.  Consider for instance the Queen's Annual Christmas Message.  What she says is extremely political and ideological.  That brings us to what disappoints me about Her Majesty and why I believe she is one of the worst monarchs in this country's history.  It is not the fact she intervenes that bothers me, it is what she says.  If you search on YouTube or through some other source one of her early televised Xmas addresses from the 1950s, you will notice that she is a happy young woman, and her message is traditional and positive, and she has a certain warmth and charm about her.  Now, in her old age, her messages have become patronising, preachy and ideological, in tune with the toxic orthodoxy of the time.  I think part of her problem is her brand of Christianity: Calvinism.  It can be easily twisted into a self-abnegating mindset.

She did not stand against the times.  She should have been steadfast in 1997, instead she relented and then gave away more and more, thinking this would save the Windsor dynasty and/or the Monarchy.  I think this was wrong.  She should have got her hands dirty, but for the opposite side.  Better still, she could have simply maintained a studied silence in the face of it all - that would have sent a powerful message too.

I don't personally believe in mass democracy.  I think people voting on things is dumb.  Liberty is the system I prefer, though that is a misnomer because it is not really a 'system'.  It is more of a philosophy that depends on each person practicing the same broad value of leaving other people alone, with interference only to the extent needed.  I think in that way of life, most problems would sort out themselves, mainly through voluntary decisions and choices.

Law should be for the courts, not Parliament.  Parliament should only intervene in society in very extreme circumstances, such as national territorial defence or a genuinely lethal pandemic that has scores of healthy people dropping dead in the streets, etc.
Your ignorance knows no bounds. The Head of the Church of England will be pleased QCChevalier regards her as a Calvinist. As for impartiality, I've no doubt she has her private thoughts, though has been scrupulous over the years not to reveal her views, with one possible exception during the Scottish independence referendum of 2014.

This is an example of political intervention of a monarch: https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2706589/Find-reason-war-Germany-Shocking-letter-documents-King-George-V-urged-foreign-secretary-justify-conflict-two-days-outbreak-First-World-War.html

A warning from history for Her Majesty: https://youtu.be/rb2CKfBfHnU

Finally, a second plea to correct your orthography: https://www.crownacademyenglish.com/difference-between-practice-and-practise/
« Last Edit: February 28, 2021, 03:29:PM by Steve_uk »

Offline lookout

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Re: the man who shouldent be king.
« Reply #10 on: February 28, 2021, 09:01:PM »
I wouldn't want a Republic, but there's no picking amongst any of them when the Queen goes.

Offline Roch

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Re: the man who shouldent be king.
« Reply #11 on: February 28, 2021, 10:10:PM »
I wouldn't want a Republic, but there's no picking amongst any of them when the Queen goes.

If having a Republic meant having honest leadership from people with integrity, then I would support it. But there's no such thing as honest leadership In this country. I do think the royals and all their sycophantic hangers-on need to go quietly and relatively quickly in to obscurity. While we're at it, can we please demote all these Etonians as well. And press barons, etc etc.

guest29835

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Re: the man who shouldent be king.
« Reply #12 on: February 28, 2021, 11:41:PM »
Your ignorance knows no bounds.

I am not ignorant.  On virtually every subject discussed here, I have demonstrated knowledge.  You, on the other hand, are a thick, stupid turnip whose only discernible talent is as a third-rate spell checker.

The Head of the Church of England will be pleased QCChevalier regards her as a Calvinist.

The head of the Church of England may also have heard of the Church of Scotland. 

As for impartiality, I've no doubt she has her private thoughts, though has been scrupulous over the years not to reveal her views, with one possible exception during the Scottish independence referendum of 2014.

The Queen reveals her private thoughts regularly.  You just haven't noticed.

This is an example of political intervention of a monarch: https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2706589/Find-reason-war-Germany-Shocking-letter-documents-King-George-V-urged-foreign-secretary-justify-conflict-two-days-outbreak-First-World-War.html

A warning from history for Her Majesty: https://youtu.be/rb2CKfBfHnU

These examples of what I have said show me to be correct, not ignorant.

Finally, a second plea to correct your orthography: https://www.crownacademyenglish.com/difference-between-practice-and-practise/

This is becoming tiresome.  I am well aware of what the difference is between practising and practising.  I have enunciated the distinction before.  Minor typos such as that are forgivable in lengthy posts and the error is utterly inconsequential.  I have seen far more significant errors in your posts and those of others.  That you should make something of it says more about you than me.  Please grow up. 

I remind you that in virtually every case you have corrected me, you have turned out to be wrong and made a complete and utter fool of yourself.  The latest example is your ecclesiological error above, which makes you look like a total muppet.

Offline lookout

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Re: the man who shouldent be king.
« Reply #13 on: March 01, 2021, 12:36:PM »
If having a Republic meant having honest leadership from people with integrity, then I would support it. But there's no such thing as honest leadership In this country. I do think the royals and all their sycophantic hangers-on need to go quietly and relatively quickly in to obscurity. While we're at it, can we please demote all these Etonians as well. And press barons, etc etc.




I agree with you Roch.   

Offline Steve_uk

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Re: the man who shouldent be king.
« Reply #14 on: March 01, 2021, 11:22:PM »
Please don't cut and paste things I didn't say.