Author Topic: OJ  (Read 1200 times)

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Offline Adam

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OJ
« on: November 23, 2020, 11:29:PM »
The trial of the century.

His plan was quite solid -

Use his 60 minute window to kill only Nicole. This would mean leaving no forensic evidence.

Shut the front door so the dog can't get out.

Arrive back at his house before the limo driver rang his buzzer.

Go to the airport & fly to Chicago for his pre booked appointment. 

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If Nicole was not found until the morning a time of death may be hard to determine. OJ has witnesses for 12 hours - With Kato, with the limo driver, on a plane, in Chicago. Only 60 minutes is not accounted for.

The 60 minute period he can say he was at home. This would be supported by him answering the buzzer when the limo driver called.




'Only I know what really happened that night'.

Offline Adam

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Re: OJ
« Reply #1 on: November 23, 2020, 11:35:PM »
Most of his problems arose when Ron Goldman arrived at Nicole's.

Ironically Ron may have been the reason OJ got his opportunity. Nicole was outside alone because she was expecting Ron. She may not have risked it otherwise, knowing she had upset OJ earlier that day.
'Only I know what really happened that night'.

Offline David1819

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Re: OJ
« Reply #2 on: November 24, 2020, 12:13:AM »
According to OJs confession book - ifI did it. He had an accomplice with him but does not name him. I have not read it tho.
« Last Edit: November 24, 2020, 12:13:AM by David1819 »

Offline Adam

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Re: OJ
« Reply #3 on: November 24, 2020, 12:51:AM »
https://youtu.be/gqpvNQZxCtg

Here is one reconstruction.

Mark Furhman believes OJ hid behind the tree as Ron arrived. Then attacked him from behind as Ron was looking at Nicole. That would give him a bigger advantage.

Another reconstruction has him attacking them at the same time.
« Last Edit: November 24, 2020, 12:54:AM by Adam »
'Only I know what really happened that night'.

Offline Adam

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Re: OJ
« Reply #4 on: November 24, 2020, 12:57:AM »
According to OJs confession book - ifI did it. He had an accomplice with him but does not name him. I have not read it tho.

That is Charlie.

OJ's version is he met them both outside. Ron got aggressive and took up a karate stance. OJ blacked out and killed them both, without getting injured.
'Only I know what really happened that night'.

Offline Adam

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Re: OJ
« Reply #5 on: November 24, 2020, 01:07:AM »
OJ was very serious in interviews straight after the verdict. Believe he felt he could return to some sort of normality on the back of his aquittal. Later interviews he is more laid back as knows the game is up.

Prior to the murders he told people 'she would be nothing without me' while Nicole believed OJ would kill her. Since the murder he told people 'anyone is capable of murder' & 'she had it coming'.
'Only I know what really happened that night'.

Offline David1819

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Re: OJ
« Reply #6 on: November 24, 2020, 01:47:AM »
That is Charlie.

OJ's version is he met them both outside. Ron got aggressive and took up a karate stance. OJ blacked out and killed them both, without getting injured.

OJ told his lawyer (Shapiro) during the trial and in a TV interview some 10 years later that he blacked out in a rage. So it is probably true.


Offline Adam

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Re: OJ
« Reply #7 on: November 24, 2020, 01:59:AM »
OJ told his lawyer (Shapiro) during the trial and in a TV interview some 10 years later that he blacked out in a rage. So it is probably true.

He went there to kill her as he had a knife with him.

Nicole was 35 & no longer a teenager who needed or wanted him. She wanted to move on. She was living in the same area as him, having affairs in a nice apartment. OJ was finanacing all this. None of that was going to change & he didn't like it.

Earlier that day Nicole didn't save a seat for him at their daughters recittal. She then went out for dinner with other people, OJ not invited.
'Only I know what really happened that night'.

Offline David1819

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Re: OJ
« Reply #8 on: November 24, 2020, 02:33:AM »
He went there to kill her as he had a knife with him.

Nicole was 35 & no longer a teenager who needed or wanted him. She wanted to move on. She was living in the same area as him, having affairs in a nice apartment. OJ was finanacing all this. None of that was going to change & he didn't like it.

Earlier that day Nicole didn't save a seat for him at their daughters recittal. She then went out for dinner with other people, OJ not invited.

Yes but he was probably high on cocaine or methamphetamine.

Offline Adam

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Re: OJ
« Reply #9 on: November 24, 2020, 09:09:AM »
Wonder if OJ would have been charged if everything had gone to plan.

The police would have no forensic evidence & minimal circumstantial evidence - his 60 minute window.

There was a history of incidents at Nicole's house where the police were called. However he had only been charged once, 5 years earler.

If there was no 16 month trial OJ would have hoped to carry on as normal once things blew over. 
'Only I know what really happened that night'.

Offline Steve_uk

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Re: OJ
« Reply #10 on: December 10, 2020, 07:02:PM »
I thought this was interesting, discussing the possible involvement of OJ's son: https://youtu.be/QG5CPhGoT3M

Offline Adam

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Re: OJ
« Reply #11 on: December 10, 2020, 08:12:PM »
I thought this was interesting, discussing the possible involvement of OJ's son: https://youtu.be/QG5CPhGoT3M

That is more plausible than OJ's Faye Resnick theory.
'Only I know what really happened that night'.

Offline Adam

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Re: OJ
« Reply #12 on: December 10, 2020, 08:15:PM »
https://youtu.be/7UkXP6Ovp6E

Here is a lawyer saying what the prosecution did wrong. Easy to be wise after the event but he does make good points.
'Only I know what really happened that night'.

Offline Steve_uk

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Re: OJ
« Reply #13 on: December 10, 2020, 09:01:PM »
https://youtu.be/7UkXP6Ovp6E

Here is a lawyer saying what the prosecution did wrong. Easy to be wise after the event but he does make good points.
I'll watch this Adam but will probably nod off before the end. Here's the main reason he was acquitted:

By November 3, an initial jury of twelve had been selected. The jury consisted of 8 blacks, 2 Hispanics, 1 half-Caucasian, half Native American, and 1 Caucasian female.

By the way, you are not to call him OJ..(video 20.54)
« Last Edit: December 10, 2020, 09:26:PM by Steve_uk »

guest29835

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Re: OJ
« Reply #14 on: December 11, 2020, 05:51:PM »
It would not surprise me in the least if the jury was multi-racial and the overwhelming majority of jurors were African-Americans.  However, I am not convinced that the racial composition of the jury is a direct explanation for Simpson's acquittal.  I know that blacks were supposed to have supported him and celebrated his acquittal - and I am not in any great doubt that he did it, by the way - but I think the real reason they let him go wasn't his race, as such, it was because realistically the African-American jury members individually must have been known to the local 'black' community and they must have worried about their own and their families' safety if they found him guilty.  Given that the prosecutors and that unfortunate police officer struggled with the case and the evidence, it was an easier option for the jurors to acquit him and use the non-probative racial aspects of the trial as a pretext to salve own consciences, rather than face their friends, colleagues and families after issuing a guilty verdict. 

In hindsight, this is obvious when you also consider the context of the case and the background events, including the infamous Ford Bronco chase that transformed Simpson overnight from aloof 'coconut' figure, looked on by ordinary black Americans with a mixture of respect and dislike, to a ridiculous sort of outlaw folk hero.  It is the irony of ironies that O. J. Simpson, of all black people, found himself in the thick of a race-baiting trial.  He had successfully transcended his racial origins and had become an accepted American sports celebrity, not really seen as 'black' at all, and many ordinary blacks viewed him with disdain as a sort of social 'turncoat'.  Yet when his chips were not just down but gone, blacks turned out for him and the black racial agitators saw their opportunity and co-opted him.  Yes, that part of it was all about race, but I think it does the jury a disservice to imagine that they would have acquitted him for a brutal double murder just because he was black.  The actual jury decision was in my view more likely to have been about the jurors' own safety.  The trial should have taken place outside Los Angeles.

One thing I am slightly surprised about is that Simpson was not more amenable to Shapiro's efforts to secure a manslaughter plea.  Shapiro was known as a fairly conciliatory criminal defence attorney who was good at striking deals. Given the probable facts (on the basis of assuming Simpson's involvement), manslaughter would have been plausible and I would not be surprised if some sort of plea deal was in fact offered to Simpson behind the scenes along those lines. 

I saw an interview with Shapiro once.  He talked about the case and implied the obvious when he remarked rather coldly that there is a distinction to be made between legal guilt and moral guilt.  I slightly disagree with him there, though I can see what he is getting at.  I think what he meant is that there is a distinction between legal guilt and culpability - a more correct word.  Guilt concerns liability, moral agency, consequences and punishment; culpability touches on involvement, blame and responsibility.  The two overlap but are different things. 

The whole point of the adversarial trial system is that legal and moral guilt are deliberately conflated.  The jury in its deliberations goes through essentially a three-stage process.  The jurors first ask themselves what we might call 'the culpability question': On the evidence presented, did the accused commit the acts or omissions alleged?  If they decide he did so, then they must ask themselves 'the guilt question': On the evidence presented, did the accused act under a guilty mind when he committed these acts or omissions?  If they decide he did so, then they are entitled to convict, though they have the option not to do so, if - for whatever reason - they do not want to punish somebody who is otherwise guilty.  That is the (often overlooked or forgotten) third stage of their deliberations, since a jury is sovereign and the arbiter of both law and fact.  This, I believe, is roughly what happened in the Simpson case.  The jurors, especially the black ones, realised that if they returned a guilty verdict they and their families could be burned out of their homes.  The theatrical weaknesses in the prosecution evidence conveniently allowed them to rationalise their counter-factual verdict.  "The evidence was not strong enough to convict him" is what one tearful black lady juror told a radio host soon after the trial.  Actually, the evidence was strong enough.  We know because the whole thing was televised, which means we saw most of what the jury saw (a good argument, incidentally, for televising criminal trials).

Fortunately, unlike in England & Wales, wrongful death is a tort in the American system; this allowed for the limited correction of a probable error of impunity a couple of years later when the Goldmans and Browns brought and won a wrongful death suit against Simpson.