Author Topic: Bambers Convictions/sentences are 'Fundamentally' and 'Critically Flawed"  (Read 323 times)

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Offline mike tesko

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Here is the Indictment that Jeremy Bamber was put on trial fore, and the juries verdict, along with the judges sentencing and recommendations...


The facts as set out in the indictment, cannot be substantiated, because there was no evidence called, or mentioned to establish beyond reasonable doubt that beach of the five victims had indeed died or been murdered, on Wednesday, 7th August 1985.

On the official version of events, no police officer, police surgeon, or pathologist, confirmed that any of the five victims had died, or been murdered, on or after midnight (6th/7th August 1985). The only way police could have proved that Sheila Caffell had been shot on two separate occasions on the morning of Wednesday, 7th August 1985, was if they admitted to having shot her, at around 7.35am when the original firearms team, forced their way into the kitchen of the farmhouse, and that during a struggle between PS Woodcock and Sheila Caffell over the control of the rifle that PS Woodcock was in possession of, that she got shot in the first instance, that she was presumed dead, and that police officers moved further and further into the premises to try and bring this operation to a successful conclusion..

Jeremy Bamber, did not therefore play any role 'in his sisters death'

« Last Edit: November 26, 2020, 04:08:AM by mike tesko »
"Oh, what a tangled web we weave, when we first practice to deceive"...

Offline mike tesko

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Two police Officers who were members of the six man raid party chosen to force an entry into the farmhouse around, 7.30am , on 7th August 1985)
  , claim that just prior to that entry was undertaken, that they had peered through and into a window belonging to the main kitchen area, and that they could see the body of a dead female  (whoever she might have been, or was) - Their evidence does   'not mean that the body of 'the dead' female had been murdered'   'at the time of their sighting' ( approx' 7.30am) , on 'this/that date' ( '7th August 1985')

Ralph Bamber was only 'pronounced as being dead' by Dr Craig at  '8.40am' (7th August 1985)   -  It  does not mean that he was murdered at that time, on that date

  June Bamber, and Sheila Caffell, were 'only  pronounced as being dead' by   Dr Craig at '8.44am' (7th August 1985) - It 'does not mean that they were 'both' murdered', at 'that time', on 'that date'  ..


Daniel and Nicholas Caffell, were only 'pronounced as being dead' by Dr Craig at [colo r=blue ] '8.50am' (7th August 1985)
It[colo r=blue ] 'does not mean that they were murdered', .. at  'that time', on  'that date' ...


One, or more members of the raid team, passed police radio messages at
7.37am on Wednesday, 7th August 1985, to confirm that 'THE BODY OF ONE DEAD MALE, AND THE BODY OF ONE DEAD FEMALE, WERE FOUND IN THE KITCHEN OF THE PREMISES UPON ENTRY - the contents of that police radio message does not establish or
prove that the unnamed male and female mentioned in this contemporaneous account, that either had been, or were murdered, at that time..

Similarly, another message that was passed over police radio (and recorded contemporaneously), timed at 7.38am (7th August 1985) - 'ONE DEAD MALE, ONE DEAD FEMALE', does not mean that they (whoever they might be) were or had been murdered at that  time (7.38am) on   that date..

Additionally, in another police message timed and recorded contemporaneously at 7.42am (7th August 1985), the following message was passed, 'CAN YOU CONTACT YOUR POLICE SURGEON, AND THE CORONERS OIFFICER, REGARDING TWO DEAD BODIES' - THIS IS NOT EVIDENCE THAT THESE TWO VICTIMS WERE MURDERED AT THIS TIME (7.42am), ON THIS DATE   (7th August 1985)'..

Another resounding police radio message was passed at 8.10am (7th August 1985), and recorded contemporaneously, which stated that,  'AFTER A THOROUGH  SEARCH OF THE PREMISES, A FURTHER THREE (DEAD) BODIES WERE FOUND, UPSTAIRS' - whichever bodies were being referred to at that time, (8.10am), this/that is not evidence that   they were murdered, at that time, on   that date...
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« Last Edit: November 16, 2020, 06:49:PM by mike tesko »
"Oh, what a tangled web we weave, when we first practice to deceive"...

Offline lookout

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Mike there are at least 10 issues included in this next submission to CCRC which Jeremy is now confident will overthrow his conviction including the deceptions and fabrications of which there's proof.


Offline Roch

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Mike there are at least 10 issues included in this next submission to CCRC which Jeremy is now confident will overthrow his conviction including the deceptions and fabrications of which there's proof.

Ever the optimist. The authorities have decided in advance that it will lead to nothing. There may be some stringing along in-between, with a few bits of false hope - but the end is not in doubt. They are now dismissing Ballistics expert reports without even countering them - such is their licence to 'uphold' processes as they see fit. 
« Last Edit: November 18, 2020, 04:33:PM by Roch »

Offline arthur

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My view, for what it's worth and that's not very much as I have only limited knowledge as I'm a casual observer, is that I'm undecided. But if I was going in to murder 5 people. People I know. I would obviously think Neville will be the most difficult.

So he would need to deal with Sheila first as he wouldn't want her ranting as he tried to deal with Neville. There is June as well so not dealing with Sheila first could easily wreck his plan and give Neville more of a chance. So I think Sheila is shot first and that explains the angle of the shot. She's asleep and he could easily angle the weapon to shoot her up through the chin. Now I don't know if any blood was found on her bed sheets or blankets.

The idea that Bamber would attack his father first would risk waking Sheila and the ensuing chaos. Could be Neville heard something and Banber had to deal with him and June first. So inside, kill Sheila then take his chances with Neville.


Offline Adam

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My view, for what it's worth and that's not very much as I have only limited knowledge as I'm a casual observer, is that I'm undecided. But if I was going in to murder 5 people. People I know. I would obviously think Neville will be the most difficult.

So he would need to deal with Sheila first as he wouldn't want her ranting as he tried to deal with Neville. There is June as well so not dealing with Sheila first could easily wreck his plan and give Neville more of a chance. So I think Sheila is shot first and that explains the angle of the shot. She's asleep and he could easily angle the weapon to shoot her up through the chin. Now I don't know if any blood was found on her bed sheets or blankets.

The idea that Bamber would attack his father first would risk waking Sheila and the ensuing chaos. Could be Neville heard something and Banber had to deal with him and June first. So inside, kill Sheila then take his chances with Neville.

Do you believe he carried Sheila into the main bedroom?
'Only I know what really happened that night'.

Offline Steve_uk

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My view, for what it's worth and that's not very much as I have only limited knowledge as I'm a casual observer, is that I'm undecided. But if I was going in to murder 5 people. People I know. I would obviously think Neville will be the most difficult.

So he would need to deal with Sheila first as he wouldn't want her ranting as he tried to deal with Neville. There is June as well so not dealing with Sheila first could easily wreck his plan and give Neville more of a chance. So I think Sheila is shot first and that explains the angle of the shot. She's asleep and he could easily angle the weapon to shoot her up through the chin. Now I don't know if any blood was found on her bed sheets or blankets.

The idea that Bamber would attack his father first would risk waking Sheila and the ensuing chaos. Could be Neville heard something and Banber had to deal with him and June first. So inside, kill Sheila then take his chances with Neville.
No her bedroom was clean in that respect. Remember the witness statements of house painter Michael Horsnell at Vaulty Manor and Barry Parker in the Tiptree shop: Sheila was spaced out, acting out a part really: a pathetic figure barely capable of looking after herself, let alone two growing boys.

It's unclear as to whether Jeremy intended to kill both parents within the master bedroom: if he did so he would have to replace the cream dial telephone back to its nornal position by June's side, as part of Jeremy's plan was to arrive at the Farm on the pretext of receiving a telephone call. As it transpired he tipped out the ammunition onto the blue and white chequered worktop in the kitchen and left the telephone off the hook to give the appearance of a telephone call emanating from that quarter. The most important part of the plan was to ensure that there was no telephone within easy reach of his parents and to allay any suspicion in that regard, and in that he succeeded.
« Last Edit: November 23, 2020, 10:49:PM by Steve_uk »

Offline Adam

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Bamber would be more concerned about Nevill resisting. Rather than Sheila.

He went upstairs fully loaded. With silencer. Fired two bullets into the twins. Then fired 9 bullets into June and Nevill from June's side of the bed.

Nevill woke and retreated out of bed while being shot at. Resulting in his 2nd and 3rd bedroom shots being torso shots. There was not enough time for Nevill's blood to fall onto the bed sheets.
« Last Edit: November 23, 2020, 11:09:PM by Adam »
'Only I know what really happened that night'.

Offline arthur

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Bamber would be more concerned about Nevill resisting. Rather than Sheila.

He went upstairs fully loaded. With silencer. Fired two bullets into the twins. Then fired 9 bullets into June and Nevill from June's side of the bed.

Nevill woke and retreated out of bed while being shot at. Resulting in his 2nd and 3rd bedroom shots being torso shots. There was not enough time for Nevill's blood to fall onto the bed sheets.

I think he would not want to risk having to deal with trying to kill both parents with the possibility of Sheila waking and going hysterical. It was, by the sound of it, an almighty struggle with Neville. He would need to bump Sheila off first to eliminate any chance of her getting tangled up with the inevitable struggle with Neville. Unless it was Neville who was woken before any attempt was made.

The phone calls are a bit like a badly written murder mystery. Just seems as if the whole thing was staged to frame someone. That someone being Sheila. It is entirely possible that Bamber could've dealt with Neville without sustaining any injury himself. He was at the time, due to farm work, a fit and strong lad, and the first 3/4 shots would've weakened Neville so much that overcoming him in the kitchen might well have been a one sided fight.

Offline arthur

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I think he would not want to risk having to deal with trying to kill both parents with the possibility of Sheila waking and going hysterical. It was, by the sound of it, an almighty struggle with Neville. He would need to bump Sheila off first to eliminate any chance of her getting tangled up with the inevitable struggle with Neville. Unless it was Neville who was woken before any attempt was made.

The phone calls are a bit like a badly written murder mystery. Just seems as if the whole thing was staged to frame someone. That someone being Sheila. It is entirely possible that Bamber could've dealt with Neville without sustaining any injury himself. He was at the time, due to farm work, a fit and strong lad, and the first 3/4 shots would've weakened Neville so much that overcoming him in the kitchen might well have been a one sided fight.

There is obviously a lot of evidence of an almighty struggle in the kitchen and I can accept that Bamber could've come through it without any serious signs of injury but if Sheila was the shooter then Neville only has to get within arms length to inflick some kind of injury to her. She could still have overcome him as he was weakened but it's difficult to see how she could come through the fight relatively unscathed. This is a serious problem for Bambers defence and I can see how the jury might've made that type of call, in that if Sheila is the killer surely she would've sustained more damage. 

Offline arthur

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No her bedroom was clean in that respect. Remember the witness statements of house painter Michael Horsnell at Vaulty Manor and Barry Parker in the Tiptree shop: Sheila was spaced out, acting out a part really: a pathetic figure barely capable of looking after herself, let alone two growing boys.

It's unclear as to whether Jeremy intended to kill both parents within the master bedroom: if he did so he would have to replace the cream dial telephone back to its nornal position by June's side, as part of Jeremy's plan was to arrive at the Farm on the pretext of receiving a telephone call. As it transpired he tipped out the ammunition onto the blue and white chequered worktop in the kitchen and left the telephone off the hook to give the appearance of a telephone call emanating from that quarter. The most important part of the plan was to ensure that there was no telephone within easy reach of his parents and to allay any suspicion in that regard, and in that he succeeded.

Thanks for the reply. I am learning more about the crime as I go along. I am trying to follow all of Mr. T and his very informative posts. As to the bed sheets etc not having any blood stains, it is possible I suppose, that Bamber cleaned up scenes. If he is the killer he would've considered the staging and acted accordingly so I can't take the scene as the police found it on face value so to speak. As in the early stages Plod accepted the Sheila story and a lot of forensic evidence was, by all accounts,destroyed.

Offline Adam

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Thanks for the reply. I am learning more about the crime as I go along. I am trying to follow all of Mr. T and his very informative posts. As to the bed sheets etc not having any blood stains, it is possible I suppose, that Bamber cleaned up scenes. If he is the killer he would've considered the staging and acted accordingly so I can't take the scene as the police found it on face value so to speak. As in the early stages Plod accepted the Sheila story and a lot of forensic evidence was, by all accounts,destroyed.

Nevill would have taken the rifle away while fully fit.
'Only I know what really happened that night'.

Offline Adam

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I think he would not want to risk having to deal with trying to kill both parents with the possibility of Sheila waking and going hysterical. It was, by the sound of it, an almighty struggle with Neville. He would need to bump Sheila off first to eliminate any chance of her getting tangled up with the inevitable struggle with Neville. Unless it was Neville who was woken before any attempt was made.

The phone calls are a bit like a badly written murder mystery. Just seems as if the whole thing was staged to frame someone. That someone being Sheila. It is entirely possible that Bamber could've dealt with Neville without sustaining any injury himself. He was at the time, due to farm work, a fit and strong lad, and the first 3/4 shots would've weakened Neville so much that overcoming him in the kitchen might well have been a one sided fight.

Do you believe Bamber carried Sheila into the main bedroom?

This could be done whether Sheila was shot first or last. If shot first, he would need to change Sheila's bed sheets as there was enough time for blood to fall onto them.
'Only I know what really happened that night'.

Offline Steve_uk

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I think he would not want to risk having to deal with trying to kill both parents with the possibility of Sheila waking and going hysterical. It was, by the sound of it, an almighty struggle with Neville. He would need to bump Sheila off first to eliminate any chance of her getting tangled up with the inevitable struggle with Neville. Unless it was Neville who was woken before any attempt was made.

The phone calls are a bit like a badly written murder mystery. Just seems as if the whole thing was staged to frame someone. That someone being Sheila. It is entirely possible that Bamber could've dealt with Neville without sustaining any injury himself. He was at the time, due to farm work, a fit and strong lad, and the first 3/4 shots would've weakened Neville so much that overcoming him in the kitchen might well have been a one sided fight.
You're not alone in your thinking here arthur and though we disagree it's always good to hear from polite new members. Don't run yourself down: everyone has something to contribute. As you can see from numerous past threads much of the case has already been discussed in depth.

Offline Roch

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Why am I unable to open Mike's new Mugford thread?