Author Topic: Jeremy v nevill  (Read 693 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Offline QCChevalier

  • Senior Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 579
Re: Jeremy v nevill
« Reply #45 on: August 02, 2020, 06:06:PM »
But you didn't answer my question. I knew you wouldn't.

What question?

There is no question in that post.  Actually, your post above about the case is valid and if you'd stuck to that attitude, our relationship would be entirely different and I'd be praising you and defending you.

Instead, as it is, I just have you pegged as a time-waster.  You're just here to run people down.

Offline QCChevalier

  • Senior Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 579
Re: Jeremy v nevill
« Reply #46 on: August 02, 2020, 06:13:PM »
None of Nevils blood was on the main bedroom floor. Adam still believes, Jeremy (who had plenty of experience shooting) Fired 9 shots at two sleeping targets at point blank range and failed to kill them. Nevil then ran past Jeremy while containing his blood so he could spill it all outside the bedroom. That's not plausible.


While Sheila took the gun upstairs to shoot June. Nevill rang Jeremy. Nevil ended the call and ran upstairs as he heard shots being fired. Sheila had fired five shots at June. She then pivoted and shot Nevill with the remaining four bullets in the magazine as Nevill came up the stairs.


One shell casing was found a few steps down the landing. I believe three of the shell casings from shots fired a Nevil bounced off the wall, while one went passed the door frame onto the landing area. As the reconstruction below illustrates




My version is similar to yours, but I have Nevill and Sheila at stand-off in the kitchen.  He can't grab the gun off her and he rings Jeremy. 

Jeremy takes a while to answer, and when he does Sheila dashes out of the kitchen.  Nevill goes after her.  Nevill is shot as he is moving up the stairs towards Sheila. 

The case projectiles end up on the main landing and at the threshold of the master bedroom. 

Nevill backs down and they end up back in the kitchen.  Maybe Nevill has it in mind to get back to the phone, but also to draw Sheila away from the rest of the family. 

Sheila then re-loads and goes upstairs to shoot the other three in whatever order (re-loading at least two further times). 
« Last Edit: August 02, 2020, 06:15:PM by QCChevalier »

Offline lookout

  • Hero Member
  • ******
  • Posts: 43667
Re: Jeremy v nevill
« Reply #47 on: August 02, 2020, 06:22:PM »
The evidence is Nevill was shot 4 times in the bedroom. Six of his 8 shots were head shots. The two facial shots were in the bedroom.

Nevill got past Bamber who was now out of bullets. There was then the violent kitchen fight.





 ::)

Offline Steve_uk

  • Hero Member
  • ******
  • Posts: 12561
Re: Jeremy v nevill
« Reply #48 on: August 02, 2020, 06:30:PM »
The worrying thing is that it is easier to put Sheila into the crime scene than Jeremy. It's also worrying to me that you keep having to change important aspects of your story to answer our doubts.  If this is such a sure thing, and you've been on this Forum years and years, then why are we having these problems?

That said, at least you're not abusive like Steve.

To me, the evidence suggests that the killer is firing at Nevill as Nevill is pursuing the killer up the stairs.  This could explain the position of some of the casings on the main landing and at the threshold of the master bedroom.  This scenario fits Jeremy's claim of a pre-incident call from Nevill.

The killer duly pursues Nevill back down the stairs and there is a struggle in the kitchen.  As I've explained, Nevill is more likely to struggle with Sheila than with Jeremy, and that struggle would take place back in the kitchen because Nevill is ahead of Sheila and already on the stairs and Sheila is not necessarily out to kill anybody, as such, so the time-and-motion fits better, whereas Jeremy would simply catch up with Nevill because he simply wants to kill him.

Sheila eventually leaves Nevill for dead, re-loads - not fully, just some more bullets - and returns up the stairs to June and the twins.  She may have re-loaded twice more, then washed and then killed herself.  I certainly don't pretend any of this is simple, but to me, the above fits the evidence a bit better.
You have totally misunderstood the relationships between the protagonists in this drama. Both children were a worry to both parents, let's admit that. Both children were disappointments. I'm sure in June's mind Sheila was breeding fodder for the son of some landed family in the area. Jeremy was meant to learn the whole aspects of the agricultural business, gain respect therefrom and continue the successful enterprise Nevill had made, some of the son's success rubbing off on the father, who could bask in his accomplishments once he had retired.

Neither lived up to expectations. Sheila had an inferiority complex despite her looks (she never realized how pretty she was until somebody told her), I don't think she ever knew what she wanted out of life, naturally attracted to the quiet, creative, arty types and never materialistic, unlike her brother. As her illness developed she lost even more self-confidence and began to retreat into her own world, mistrustful of those around her but never expressing bitterness towards others, rather craving acceptance.

Jeremy had tried for years to emulate his father, an impossible feat for most men, and when he gave up attempting to please he was bent on humiliation, hence the final calamity. He had moved his father to tears on so many occasions, as evidenced by close friend John Seward, that it's impossible to envisage any situation, even an emergency, that Nevill would request the help of his son. 
« Last Edit: August 02, 2020, 06:35:PM by Steve_uk »

Offline Steve_uk

  • Hero Member
  • ******
  • Posts: 12561
Re: Jeremy v nevill
« Reply #49 on: August 02, 2020, 06:38:PM »
What question?

There is no question in that post.  Actually, your post above about the case is valid and if you'd stuck to that attitude, our relationship would be entirely different and I'd be praising you and defending you.

Instead, as it is, I just have you pegged as a time-waster.  You're just here to run people down.
Why do you not think that the twins were shot once each?

Offline QCChevalier

  • Senior Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 579
Re: Jeremy v nevill
« Reply #50 on: August 02, 2020, 06:42:PM »
Why do you not think that the twins were shot once each?

I've already explained that in a reply to Adam above. 

In addition, there's the explanation that Sheila did it.

I could also reverse the question and ask: Why do you think the twins were shot once each, and then shot again?  And why do you think when the killer returned to the twins' bedroom he shot them six more times from two different positions?  And why would he do that?

Again, all of it is discussed above.

Thank you.

Offline QCChevalier

  • Senior Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 579
Re: Jeremy v nevill
« Reply #51 on: August 02, 2020, 06:46:PM »
You have totally misunderstood the relationships between the protagonists in this drama. Both children were a worry to both parents, let's admit that. Both children were disappointments. I'm sure in June's mind Sheila was breeding fodder for the son of some landed family in the area. Jeremy was meant to learn the whole aspects of the agricultural business, gain respect therefrom and continue the successful enterprise Nevill had made, some of the son's success rubbing off on the father, who could bask in his accomplishments once he had retired.

Neither lived up to expectations. Sheila had an inferiority complex despite her looks (she never realized how pretty she was until somebody told her), I don't think she ever knew what she wanted out of life, naturally attracted to the quiet, creative, arty types and never materialistic, unlike her brother. As her illness developed she lost even more self-confidence and began to retreat into her own world, mistrustful of those around her but never expressing bitterness towards others, rather craving acceptance.

Jeremy had tried for years to emulate his father, an impossible feat for most men, and when he gave up attempting to please he was bent on humiliation, hence the final calamity. He had moved his father to tears on so many occasions, as evidenced by close friend John Seward, that it's impossible to envisage any situation, even an emergency, that Nevill would request the help of his son.

Thanks.  I'm not sure if I've misunderstood (but you may be right, I may have done), it just seems to me more that you are interpreting things in a certain way.  Actually, I agree with pretty much everything you say here - but it's not full the story.

To my mind, it's possible that Nevill rang Jeremy at the stand-off with Sheila simply because:

(i). He needed to ring somebody, maybe as a ruse or ploy initially to get Sheila to back down, as in: 'Stop it Sheila, or I'll ring Jeremy!'
(ii). Best to ring Jeremy and keep it discreet in the sense of involving only a family member.
(iii). Probably there was a history of previous incidents, albeit not as serious.
(iv). Nevill may have had the dilemma that he had to ring somebody and when he does he is holding the phone, so can't tackle Sheila.

Offline Steve_uk

  • Hero Member
  • ******
  • Posts: 12561
Re: Jeremy v nevill
« Reply #52 on: August 02, 2020, 06:54:PM »
I've already explained that in a reply to Adam above. 

In addition, there's the explanation that Sheila did it.

I could also reverse the question and ask: Why do you think the twins were shot once each, and then shot again?  And why do you think when the killer returned to the twins' bedroom he shot them six more times from two different positions?  And why would he do that?

Again, all of it is discussed above.

Thank you.
Could you refer me to the post where this is mentioned? I think the twins were shot once each to put them out of the way, so they wouldn't be running around the farmhouse in the middle of the night.

Got it?

Offline JackieD

  • Senior Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 1984
Re: Jeremy v nevill
« Reply #53 on: August 02, 2020, 06:59:PM »

You have totally misunderstood the relationships between the protagonists in this drama. Both children were a worry to both parents, let's admit that. Both children were disappointments. I'm sure in June's mind Sheila was breeding fodder for the son of some landed family in the area. Jeremy was meant to learn the whole aspects of the agricultural business, gain respect therefrom and continue the successful enterprise Nevill had made, some of the son's success rubbing off on the father, who could bask in his accomplishments once he had retired.

Neither lived up to expectations. Sheila had an inferiority complex despite her looks (she never realized how pretty she was until somebody told her), I don't think she ever knew what she wanted out of life, naturally attracted to the quiet, creative, arty types and never materialistic, unlike her brother. As her illness developed she lost even more self-confidence and began to retreat into her own world, mistrustful of those around her but never expressing bitterness towards others, rather craving acceptance.

Jeremy had tried for years to emulate his father, an impossible feat for most men, and when he gave up attempting to please he was bent on humiliation, hence the final calamity. He had moved his father to tears on so many occasions, as evidenced by close friend John Seward, that it's impossible to envisage any situation, even an emergency, that Nevill would request the help of his son.
[/color]

You really need to seek professional help with your obsession with Jeremy

What’s your excuse for Julie’s behaviour

Fraud
Drugs
Perjury
Theft
Attempted Murder

Plus she couldn’t get in that mortuary quick enough to have a good look at the dead bodies but she was only 20

Try googling the age of criminal responsibility. And she couldn’t get her clothes off quickly to really make her claim for fame

Come on Steve maybe you can explain Julie’s fascination with dead bodies and trying to suffocate people with pillows

You are unbelievable

As you know I am in regular contact with Warwick who used to spray the fields and he was with Jeremy and Neville a lot and he said they had a normal relationship

Where’s your information from a dodgy book
From Colin Caffells
His relationship with Sheila was one of brotherly love. He was very proud of having a beautiful sister who was a photographic model

Offline Adam

  • Hero Member
  • ******
  • Posts: 21678
Re: Jeremy v nevill
« Reply #54 on: August 02, 2020, 07:03:PM »
Could you refer me to the post where this is mentioned? I think the twins were shot once each to put them out of the way, so they wouldn't be running around the farmhouse in the middle of the night.

Got it?

His Sheila scenario will be interesting.

But at least he has done one.

Look forward to reading it.
'Only I know what really happened that night'.

Offline Adam

  • Hero Member
  • ******
  • Posts: 21678
Re: Jeremy v nevill
« Reply #55 on: August 02, 2020, 07:15:PM »
Could you refer me to the post where this is mentioned? I think the twins were shot once each to put them out of the way, so they wouldn't be running around the farmhouse in the middle of the night.

Got it?

It does seem logical that he would shoot the twins first. The easiest targets.

He then had 9 bullets for the other three targets.
'Only I know what really happened that night'.

Offline Adam

  • Hero Member
  • ******
  • Posts: 21678
Re: Jeremy v nevill
« Reply #56 on: August 02, 2020, 07:17:PM »
As said, the other option is he went upstairs with 9 bullets & went straight into the main bedroom. 

This meant the twins slept through a lot of the massacre. Which supports the Sheila not waking theory.
« Last Edit: August 02, 2020, 07:18:PM by Adam »
'Only I know what really happened that night'.

Offline Adam

  • Hero Member
  • ******
  • Posts: 21678
Re: Jeremy v nevill
« Reply #57 on: August 02, 2020, 07:23:PM »
If he went straight to the main bedroom intending to discharge the 9 bullets, it means he was not attempting an 11 shot massacre.

So why not enter the main bedroom with 11 bullets & discharge them? 

Everything points to the twins being shot first. One bullet each.
« Last Edit: August 02, 2020, 07:26:PM by Adam »
'Only I know what really happened that night'.

Offline Steve_uk

  • Hero Member
  • ******
  • Posts: 12561
Re: Jeremy v nevill
« Reply #58 on: August 02, 2020, 07:29:PM »
[/color]

You really need to seek professional help with your obsession with Jeremy

What’s your excuse for Julie’s behaviour

Fraud
Drugs
Perjury
Theft
Attempted Murder

Plus she couldn’t get in that mortuary quick enough to have a good look at the dead bodies but she was only 20

Try googling the age of criminal responsibility. And she couldn’t get her clothes off quickly to really make her claim for fame

Come on Steve maybe you can explain Julie’s fascination with dead bodies and trying to suffocate people with pillows

You are unbelievable

As you know I am in regular contact with Warwick who used to spray the fields and he was with Jeremy and Neville a lot and he said they had a normal relationship

Where’s your information from a dodgy book
I can't win with you Jackie, so I'll just let it pass:

Jeremy Bamber Case Discussion / Re: Why Nevill Could Not Have Made A 999 Call: A Logical Case
« on: Today at 10:21 AM »

We don’t agree about the police not going out of there way to convict a person knowing they are innocent but the forum is for debate and it’s not here for Steve or Mary Mugford to promote the low life that we get fed up of hearing about Julie Mugford
« Last Edit: August 02, 2020, 07:30:PM by Steve_uk »

Offline Adam

  • Hero Member
  • ******
  • Posts: 21678
Re: Jeremy v nevill
« Reply #59 on: August 02, 2020, 07:34:PM »
A smooth 11 shot massacre would have been very quick work for Bamber.

Just one visit upstairs, no reloads and no kitchen fight.

He would simply have to plug the bedroom phone into the bedroom socket & take it off the hook. Then move Nevill onto the floor to give the impression he had been up and awake.

But everything went pear shaped between the third and tenth bullets.
« Last Edit: August 02, 2020, 07:37:PM by Adam »
'Only I know what really happened that night'.