Jeremy v nevill

[ILB]

If we are talking a bamber is guilty scenario.then what has always has puzzled me. And people can disagree. Is that why jeremy bamber had no physical marks upon him.

Especially his face. Why didnt bews. Myall and any other officer who came into contact with bamber within the first 24 hours make any note? I dont care what anybody can counteract. This was a life or death struggle. No marks reported on jeremy???, by even 1980s policing standards

If we go by what was alledged by chelmsford back in 86,nevill was 6 feet 4, ex RAF, a fit well built sturdy farmer. If he engages in a fercious battle with his son, (who is trying to murder him) why no marks on jeremy. The face is the place to strike first. In any type of defensive situation

And we led to believe nevill put up a big fight. He might have been older, but he had more leverage over jeremy reference height and weight.

[Adam]

http://jeremybamberforum.co.uk/index.php/topic,9971.msg455277.html#msg455277

[ILB]

http://jeremybamberforum.co.uk/index.php/topic,9971.msg455277.html#msg455277

Thats just your stage of events... Its not conclusive facts.

[ILB]

Look at sensibly.

Its the early hours of wednesday morning. Nevill is by all accounts fast on, a long days graft at the farm. He is known to be a deep sleeper. His wife isnt.

As a teenager, i lived in a big house with my grandparents. After a night out i have lost count the amount of times i have come in drunk, stumbled about, put something in the microwave. In general, made a racket. But they stayed sound asleep

My grandmother was a terrible sleeper too.

To suggest nevill immediatley confronted jeremy is to suggest he was already awake and alert

[Adam]

It was more of an attack than a fight. Nevill bare footed, caught by surprise and shot 4 times.

Nevill may have been able inflict injuries if he had got control of the rifle. If he had the strenght to. However Bamber was fully clothed and would have gone into defence mode.

[Adam]

'To suggest nevill immediatley confronted jeremy is to suggest he was already awake and alert.'

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Nevill didn't. He was shot 4 times upstairs, chased downstairs and attacked in the kitchen.

[guest29835]

If we are talking a bamber is guilty scenario.then what has always has puzzled me. And people can disagree. Is that why jeremy bamber had no physical marks upon him.

Especially his face. Why didnt bews. Myall and any other officer who came into contact with bamber within the first 24 hours make any note? I dont care what anybody can counteract. This was a life or death struggle. No marks reported on jeremy???, by even 1980s policing standards

If we go by what was alledged by chelmsford back in 86,nevill was 6 feet 4, ex RAF, a fit well built sturdy farmer. If he engages in a fercious battle with his son, (who is trying to murder him) why no marks on jeremy. The face is the place to strike first. In any type of defensive situation

And we led to believe nevill put up a big fight. He might have been older, but he had more leverage over jeremy reference height and weight.

Good post.  We should consider two further points:

(i). Even if Jeremy was masked, Nevill would recognise him and even a mask would not protect Jeremy from injury.

(ii). Julie Mugford, Jeremy's intimate girlfriend, does not report marks on Jeremy. 

In my view, a struggle points more to Sheila, because Nevill would hesitate about how to deal with his daughter and would also not want to bring in the authorities.

Nevill and Jeremy would not struggle because Jeremy had a gun and would simply kill him.

Jeremy would also catch up with Nevill on the stairs or in the main foyer, and again, bludgeon him or kill him.

Adam is saying that Jeremy must have run out of bullets upstairs, and this is what prompted the struggle downstairs.  This is a reasonable theory, but it does not tie in with the ballistic evidence of what happened in the twins' bedroom.  If we say Jeremy shot the twins in two fusillades, which is the pattern suggested, then Jeremy has sufficient ammunition to kill or incapacitate both Nevill and June, notwithstanding he is using a small calibre weapon.

We are therefore left to explain how and why Nevill ends up downstairs, given that we have those four cartridge cases recorded as found upstairs and given that there is no blood trail.

[Adam]

'In my view, a struggle points more to Sheila, because Nevill would hesitate about how to deal with his daughter and would also not want to bring in the authorities.'

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Nevill would use his massive height, weight & strenght advantage to take the rifle off Sheila. While fully fit.

Nevill had just had a hard day at work & needed his rest before another hard day. As head of the family he would not stand for any nonsense.

[Adam]

'Jeremy would also catch up with Nevill on the stairs or in the main foyer, and again, bludgeon him or kill him.'

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He may not. And is not going to attack him in a narrow steep staircase.

[Adam]

'then Jeremy has sufficient ammunition to kill or incapacitate both Nevill and June, notwithstanding he is using a small calibre weapon.'

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He did. By firing 9 bullets into them.

[Adam]

It is simple to match the Bamber to the crime scene.

Cycle to WHF:

Evidence - June's bike brought over to Bamber's cottage just before massacre.  Easy journey. Unseen.


Get into WHF

Evidence - Bathroom window loose or open. Quiet ground floor entrance. Bamber said he knew how to get in through this window.


Pick up rifle:

Evidence ' Rifle available as stated by Bamber.


Fire one bullet into each twin.

Evidence - Julie said the twins were shot first.


Enter main bedroom:

Evidence - Two adults in this room who must be killed with remaining 9 bullets as potential to provide most resistance.


Shoot an in bed June and Neville:

Evidence - 9 shots were fired in the main bedroom opening salvo suggesting rifle was emptied in opening salvo.   June and Neville shot in or near the bed.


Go to reload or chase Neville:

Evidence - Spare bullets found in kitchen. Neville found in kitchen.


Kitchen fight:

Evidence - Neville was brutally beaten there.  Upturned and smashed kitchen items. Scratch marks on aga.


Reload, shoot and kill a knocked out Neville:

Evidence - Four kitchen head shots into Neville.


Reload. Return upstairs:

Evidence - All other shots upstairs.




Shoot June twice more:

Evidence - June had moved a few feet. Final shots required. Two of June's 7 shots would have killed her quickly.


Shoot the sleeping twins more times

Evidence - Twins shot 8 times in bed. Amount of bullets used shows two reloads carried out on the night.

Either wake and shoot or shoot an already awake Sheila:

Evidence - Sheila found shot in the corner of main bedroom. Sheila on Haloperidol so easy to control.


Go downstairs to check on Nevill

Evidence - Nevill was downstairs.

Remove & replace silencer. Burn Nevill's back.

Evidence - Silencer found in cupboard. Nevill's back burnt.

Stage the scene:

Evidence - Gun and bible by Sheila. Silencer put in a box. Neville mounted onto a coal scuttle and back burnt to check for signs of life.


Exit out of kitchen window:

Evidence - Twenty sources say it can be banged shut from outside. Housekeeper said items moved by kitchen window.on night of massacre.


Cycle home:

Evidence - Bike found at Bambers cottage

[guest29835]

Thanks Adam.  It looks to me like you've got this case all wrapped up.  Where were you in 1985?

[Adam]

It has been suggested that Bamber went downstairs to reload. Leaving an injured Nevill upstairs. He would not want to have a physical fight with Nevill. Even if injured.

Nevill summoned the strenght to get downstairs to try to stop Bamber returning. But was too injured.

[guest29835]

It has been suggested that Bamber went downstairs to reload. Leaving an injured Nevill upstairs. He would not want to have a physical fight with Nevill. Even if injured.

Nevill summoned the strenght to get downstairs to try to stop Bamber returning. But was too injured.

That's an interesting idea.  Maybe Nevill surprised Jeremy?  Jeremy would be re-loading the gun and could have been caught unawares.  However, it means Nevill risks leaving the others upstairs, but then, maybe he thought he had no choice?  Maybe June (still alive) urged him to go downstairs and tackle Jeremy?

Is there a possibility that Nevill could have had some sort of weapon with him?

One thing I wonder about is why Nevill did not make for the washroom, where the guns were?

[Adam]

That's an interesting idea.  Maybe Nevill surprised Jeremy?  Jeremy would be re-loading the gun and could have been caught unawares.  However, it means Nevill risks leaving the others upstairs, but then, maybe he thought he had no choice?  Maybe June (still alive) urged him to go downstairs and tackle Jeremy?

Is there a possibility that Nevill could have had some sort of weapon with him?

One thing I wonder about is why Nevill did not make for the washroom, where the guns were?

Have you got a source that there were guns in the washroom?