Author Topic: Trial Transcript from Examination of Dr. Peter Vanezis  (Read 486 times)

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Online QCChevalier

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Trial Transcript from Examination of Dr. Peter Vanezis
« on: July 03, 2020, 12:27:PM »
First, can I offer my thanks to the people responsible for the archive & statements sections here on the Forum.  It must have involved a tremendous amount of work and I am very grateful.

I've just been browsing Dr. Vanezis' trial transcript and unless I am very mistaken, I think there may be a page missing right at the end.  Page 51 doesn't appear and there is no continuation between pages 50 and 52.

Here's the link: http://jeremybamberforum.co.uk/index.php/topic,7638.msg362766.html#msg362766

Offline lookout

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Re: Trial Transcript from Examination of Dr. Peter Vanezis
« Reply #1 on: July 04, 2020, 01:45:PM »
The link was worth a second read inasmuch as it states that not only Nevill had been shot while the shooter was above him but June also received a shot in the same way, which tells me that both were going downstairs from the bedroom area otherwise how could you get an angled/ downward shot using a rifle ?

What would June have been doing on her way downstairs ?

Online QCChevalier

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Re: Trial Transcript from Examination of Dr. Peter Vanezis
« Reply #2 on: July 04, 2020, 02:18:PM »
The link was worth a second read inasmuch as it states that not only Nevill had been shot while the shooter was above him but June also received a shot in the same way, which tells me that both were going downstairs from the bedroom area otherwise how could you get an angled/ downward shot using a rifle ?

What would June have been doing on her way downstairs ?

But her body was found in the master bedroom.  Are you saying that the killer moved her body?  If so, wouldn't that point to Jeremy?

Offline lookout

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Re: Trial Transcript from Examination of Dr. Peter Vanezis
« Reply #3 on: July 04, 2020, 09:37:PM »
But her body was found in the master bedroom.  Are you saying that the killer moved her body?  If so, wouldn't that point to Jeremy?





No, June would have moved herself back upstairs because the shot to her from above wasn't a fatal one.

Online QCChevalier

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Re: Trial Transcript from Examination of Dr. Peter Vanezis
« Reply #4 on: July 04, 2020, 09:51:PM »




No, June would have moved herself back upstairs because the shot to her from above wasn't a fatal one.

OK, but wouldn't there be a significant blood trail to indicate this?  My understanding (I may be wrong) is that the police did not find blood on the landing or the main staircase itself.  The only blood in that general location was on the wallpaper of the main staircase, indicating movement by Nevill.

Another thing that points away from the possibility of June being outside the master bedroom after having been shot is that there is blood under the window of the master bedroom, which indicates she was walking around after having been shot during the first fusillade, yet there isn't much blood anywhere else.

Actually, it would be useful to know: Did the police compile a blood map?
« Last Edit: July 04, 2020, 09:52:PM by QCChevalier »

Offline David1819

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Re: Trial Transcript from Examination of Dr. Peter Vanezis
« Reply #5 on: July 05, 2020, 02:08:AM »
OK, but wouldn't there be a significant blood trail to indicate this?  My understanding (I may be wrong) is that the police did not find blood on the landing or the main staircase itself.  The only blood in that general location was on the wallpaper of the main staircase, indicating movement by Nevill.

Another thing that points away from the possibility of June being outside the master bedroom after having been shot is that there is blood under the window of the master bedroom, which indicates she was walking around after having been shot during the first fusillade, yet there isn't much blood anywhere else.

Actually, it would be useful to know: Did the police compile a blood map?

There was some blood on the landing according to DCI Jones pocket book.

Online QCChevalier

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Re: Trial Transcript from Examination of Dr. Peter Vanezis
« Reply #6 on: July 05, 2020, 02:20:AM »
There was some blood on the landing according to DCI Jones pocket book.

Right.  That's interesting.  Any indication of exactly where and a sense of how much? 

I ask because this point is of particular interest to me, as I think there are only two ways Jeremy could have done this.  One of them, the logical/planned option, would have involved killing or incapacitating Sheila in the second bedroom before the assault on the other four; then, after killing the others, he would return to the second bedroom and carry Sheila's body to the master bedroom.  He would have to do this while minimising any forensic footprint, especially of the shot in Sheila's bed (he would have changed the bed clothes, etc. - which may explain why Sheila's bed looked like it had not been slept in).
« Last Edit: July 05, 2020, 02:21:AM by QCChevalier »

Offline lookout

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Re: Trial Transcript from Examination of Dr. Peter Vanezis
« Reply #7 on: July 05, 2020, 12:52:PM »
June's blood had dripped beneath the window of the room I call the sewing room where the rifle was spotted. People have got mixed up with this room and the main bedroom but there's a difference in the actual window panes and height of the sill from the skirting board.

Offline lookout

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Re: Trial Transcript from Examination of Dr. Peter Vanezis
« Reply #8 on: July 05, 2020, 12:59:PM »
Having read the transcript on June being shot from above, if I'm not mistaken a bullet grazed her left ear meaning that it wouldn't have caused bleeding heavy enough to have dripped onto the staircarpet.

Online QCChevalier

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Re: Trial Transcript from Examination of Dr. Peter Vanezis
« Reply #9 on: July 05, 2020, 02:07:PM »
June's blood had dripped beneath the window of the room I call the sewing room where the rifle was spotted. People have got mixed up with this room and the main bedroom but there's a difference in the actual window panes and height of the sill from the skirting board.

Thanks.  As I state above, it would be useful to have some sort of diagram showing all the locations of blood.  Did the police ever produce one?

Offline David1819

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Re: Trial Transcript from Examination of Dr. Peter Vanezis
« Reply #10 on: July 05, 2020, 02:16:PM »
Right.  That's interesting.  Any indication of exactly where and a sense of how much? 

I ask because this point is of particular interest to me, as I think there are only two ways Jeremy could have done this.  One of them, the logical/planned option, would have involved killing or incapacitating Sheila in the second bedroom before the assault on the other four; then, after killing the others, he would return to the second bedroom and carry Sheila's body to the master bedroom.  He would have to do this while minimising any forensic footprint, especially of the shot in Sheila's bed (he would have changed the bed clothes, etc. - which may explain why Sheila's bed looked like it had not been slept in).

There was a trial of blood going round the main bedroom but it was all confirmed to be June bambers blood group.

The blood stains on Sheila's nightdress show she was sitting upwards when the shots were fired.

Online QCChevalier

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Re: Trial Transcript from Examination of Dr. Peter Vanezis
« Reply #11 on: July 05, 2020, 02:50:PM »
Having read the transcript on June being shot from above, if I'm not mistaken a bullet grazed her left ear meaning that it wouldn't have caused bleeding heavy enough to have dripped onto the staircarpet.

Interesting.  I agree that June being shot in that way on the main stairs works in Jeremy's favour potentially, as he would hardly then leave Nevill to kill her, but I don't see any evidence that she was shot outside the master bedroom.  Where is that referred to?

I thought it was on her right-side that she received both shots to the head?  Looking at the transcript, the only part I can see where June is discussed at all is page 26 (Rivlin's cross-examination) and autopsy photograph 19 is referred to.

Online QCChevalier

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Re: Trial Transcript from Examination of Dr. Peter Vanezis
« Reply #12 on: July 05, 2020, 02:51:PM »
There was a trial of blood going round the main bedroom but it was all confirmed to be June bambers blood group.

The blood stains on Sheila's nightdress show she was sitting upwards when the shots were fired.

OK, but what about on the landing?  Was there blood on the landing between the master bedroom and the second bedroom?

Offline Adam

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Re: Trial Transcript from Examination of Dr. Peter Vanezis
« Reply #13 on: July 05, 2020, 03:07:PM »
Right.  That's interesting.  Any indication of exactly where and a sense of how much? 

I ask because this point is of particular interest to me, as I think there are only two ways Jeremy could have done this.  One of them, the logical/planned option, would have involved killing or incapacitating Sheila in the second bedroom before the assault on the other four; then, after killing the others, he would return to the second bedroom and carry Sheila's body to the master bedroom.  He would have to do this while minimising any forensic footprint, especially of the shot in Sheila's bed (he would have changed the bed clothes, etc. - which may explain why Sheila's bed looked like it had not been slept in).

Always thought it was doubtful Sheila would have woken. The upstairs shots into the other 4 were in other rooms while they slept and with a silencer attached. Sheila would have been in a deep sleep herself and the COA says under sedation. There is a slim chance the downstairs kitchen fight woke her.
 
Bamber could have shot Sheila while she slept. Any blood from her neck from one shot would be a trickle and not fall onto the bed sheets before Bamber picked her up. Besides which, as you said he could change sheets.

Bamber could easily pick up an incapacitated Sheila and spend a few seconds carrying her a few feet.

Bamber could also pick up a Sheila under sedation and in a deep sleep. Then spend a few seconds carrying her a few feet. She would put up no resistance.
'Only I know what really happened that night'.

Offline lookout

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Re: Trial Transcript from Examination of Dr. Peter Vanezis
« Reply #14 on: July 05, 2020, 03:13:PM »
Adam have you ever tried lifting a person who's incapacitated ?