Author Topic: FAO Jeremy's legal team and campaign  (Read 1569 times)

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Offline Jan

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Re: FAO Jeremy's legal team and campaign
« Reply #45 on: June 09, 2020, 10:24:PM »
Thank you David .

Offline Jan

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Re: FAO Jeremy's legal team and campaign
« Reply #46 on: June 09, 2020, 10:27:PM »
Preferred your old Avatar btw

Offline Roch

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Re: FAO Jeremy's legal team and campaign
« Reply #47 on: June 10, 2020, 06:31:PM »
"At [15] he said the value to the prosecution of the moderator was drawn from the
evidence of John Hayward that, first, it had paint on it (from a fight with Nevill
Bamber) and Sheila Caffell’s blood in it (from when she was shot). Second, Sheila
Caffell could not have shot herself with the silencer attached to the gun. Saini J said
that this conclusions were not weakened by the presence of a second moderator (if
there were one)."


So, like Saini J, I am unable to say that the CPS erred in law in refusing to make the
disclosure sought. Like him, I am not on the material I have seen readily able to accept
the premise that the existence of a second sound moderator is capable of affecting the
safety of the Claimant’s convictions in any meaningful way, notwithstanding what Mr
Ferguson said in May 2018. The facts are that the moderator which was found had Ms
Caffell’s blood in it, and she could not have shot herself when the sound moderator was
attached to the rifle. I acknowledge Mr Boyce’s expertise and the detail in his report,
but it needs to be evaluated against the whole corpus of evidence that has been
gathered in this case. As I have said, the Court is handicapped in doing that.


This is simply another way of saying that the sound moderator evidence used to convict JB is presumed to be genuine - therefore, we will not support the release of documents that is claimed would assist in ascertaining that there were in fact two sound moderators.


Offline Roch

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Re: FAO Jeremy's legal team and campaign
« Reply #48 on: June 10, 2020, 06:40:PM »
On 29 April 1986 at 11:30 am a sound moderator was examined by forensic scientist Glynis Howard and Detective Inspector Ronald Cook.  A diagram was drawn by them to indicate the location of an additional blood group discovered in the sound moderator, on the fourth and/or fifth baffle plates . This diagram can be viewed at http://jeremybamberforum.co.uk/index.php/topic,887.15.html diagram 14, the diagram is at the bottom of the page.
                                 

The blood group discovered (EAP  BA  HP2) exactly matches that of David Boutflour and Pamela Boutflour and not any of the deceased. The 1986 Jury were not advised of the discovery of this second blood group inside a sound moderator.

That is most intriguing.  I cannot imagine PB providing a sample.  That kind of narrows it down.

Offline David1819

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Re: FAO Jeremy's legal team and campaign
« Reply #49 on: June 18, 2020, 03:50:PM »
Preferred your old Avatar btw

 8)

Don't you like Machine Gun Kelly?  ;D

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Fp0BScQSSvg

Offline David1819

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Re: FAO Jeremy's legal team and campaign
« Reply #50 on: June 18, 2020, 04:46:PM »
8)

Don't you like Machine Gun Kelly?  ;D

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Fp0BScQSSvg

Maybe I should do a rap like this for JB?  ;D ;D

Offline David1819

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Re: FAO Jeremy's legal team and campaign
« Reply #51 on: June 18, 2020, 05:59:PM »
That is most intriguing.  I cannot imagine PB providing a sample.  That kind of narrows it down.

PB gave a blood sample in 1985/6.

PB and AE also gave DNA samples in 2001. It didn't match any of the profiles found in the silencer.

Its been alleged by the CT that RWB refused to give a DNA sample in 2001. Since there is mention of BP and AEs DNA being compared to the profile but not RWB. That somewhat supports the claim I guess.

Offline Roch

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Re: FAO Jeremy's legal team and campaign
« Reply #52 on: June 18, 2020, 08:53:PM »
PB gave a blood sample in 1985/6.

PB and AE also gave DNA samples in 2001. It didn't match any of the profiles found in the silencer.

Its been alleged by the CT that RWB refused to give a DNA sample in 2001. Since there is mention of BP and AEs DNA being compared to the profile but not RWB. That somewhat supports the claim I guess.

OK, we may be at cross purposes here. Where are PB and DB blood groups recorded?

Offline David1819

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Re: FAO Jeremy's legal team and campaign
« Reply #53 on: June 18, 2020, 09:12:PM »
OK, we may be at cross purposes here. Where are PB and DB blood groups recorded?

Here.

Offline Roch

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Re: FAO Jeremy's legal team and campaign
« Reply #54 on: June 18, 2020, 10:57:PM »
Here.



Aye, that's what I meant. I cant imagine PB providing the sample for THIS... and therefore that narrows it down.

« Last Edit: June 18, 2020, 11:00:PM by Roch »

Offline David1819

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Re: FAO Jeremy's legal team and campaign
« Reply #55 on: June 19, 2020, 12:02:AM »
Aye, that's what I meant. I cant imagine PB providing the sample for THIS... and therefore that narrows it down.

That’s something John Hayward scribbled down in a meeting a year after the testing was done. It’s difficult to the know what this is supposed to mean.


Offline David1819

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Re: FAO Jeremy's legal team and campaign
« Reply #56 on: June 19, 2020, 10:49:AM »
That’s something John Hayward scribbled down in a meeting a year after the testing was done. It’s difficult to the know what this is supposed to mean.

Its worth mentioning that its not necessary to establish to precise method of how the silencer was contaminated.

Muzzle imprints on the contact wounds to under Sheila's chin show the silencer was not attached when the wounds were inflicted. There was no trace of the Nicholas Caffel inside the moderator despite suffering two contact wounds and and one near contact wound. AE and RWB knew the silencer contained blood and also paint from the mantle shelf before the lab confirmed that was the case. AE pointed out the scratch marks to the police.There is no trace of the scratch marks in the crime scene prior to the relatives being given access to crime scene. The bone in Nevils left arm had split in two fragments from a gun shot upstairs,making it impossible to use and hence there could be no altercation over the weapon the cause the scratches in the first place. The muzzle marks on Nevills back were caused by end of the rifle barrel, tests could not replicate these marks with a silencer attached on the gun.

From these facts we can infer that the relatives or a relative contaminated the silencer to incriminate JB. The origin of the blood, whether from RWB, menstrual blood or from the crime scene? Its not necessary to narrow down what the true scenario is. It will probably be taken to the grave.
« Last Edit: June 19, 2020, 11:59:AM by David1819 »

Offline Roch

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Re: FAO Jeremy's legal team and campaign
« Reply #57 on: June 19, 2020, 09:30:PM »
That’s something John Hayward scribbled down in a meeting a year after the testing was done. It’s difficult to the know what this is supposed to mean.

Is it possible to confirm this?

It would appear to mean that different baffle plates contained blood that belonged to different blood groups. What else could it mean?

Offline Steve_uk

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Re: FAO Jeremy's legal team and campaign
« Reply #58 on: June 19, 2020, 09:37:PM »
Its worth mentioning that its not necessary to establish to precise method of how the silencer was contaminated.

Muzzle imprints on the contact wounds to under Sheila's chin show the silencer was not attached when the wounds were inflicted. There was no trace of the Nicholas Caffel inside the moderator despite suffering two contact wounds and and one near contact wound. AE and RWB knew the silencer contained blood and also paint from the mantle shelf before the lab confirmed that was the case. AE pointed out the scratch marks to the police.There is no trace of the scratch marks in the crime scene prior to the relatives being given access to crime scene. The bone in Nevils left arm had split in two fragments from a gun shot upstairs,making it impossible to use and hence there could be no altercation over the weapon the cause the scratches in the first place. The muzzle marks on Nevills back were caused by end of the rifle barrel, tests could not replicate these marks with a silencer attached on the gun.

From these facts we can infer that the relatives or a relative contaminated the silencer to incriminate JB. The origin of the blood, whether from RWB, menstrual blood or from the crime scene? Its not necessary to narrow down what the true scenario is. It will probably be taken to the grave.
No, and there could have been no use of the kitchen telephone by him either to call his beloved son.

Offline lookout

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Re: FAO Jeremy's legal team and campaign
« Reply #59 on: June 20, 2020, 11:52:AM »
His other arm/hand was free Steve ?