Author Topic: Kim Jong Un. Dead or Alive?  (Read 773 times)

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Offline David1819

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Re: Kim Jong Un. Dead or Alive?
« Reply #16 on: June 19, 2020, 06:15:PM »
Found this rather moving. What a story

https://youtu.be/ooB9sYZepLo

Offline David1819

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Re: Kim Jong Un. Dead or Alive?
« Reply #17 on: July 27, 2020, 11:43:AM »

Offline QCChevalier

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Re: Kim Jong Un. Dead or Alive?
« Reply #18 on: July 27, 2020, 05:47:PM »
North Korea is a very interesting country.  It's as if they have decided to pursue a different path from the overarching hegemony of liberal capitalism and globalism.  Juche philosophy seems to be a sort of 'Korean national-socialism'.

Offline David1819

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Re: Kim Jong Un. Dead or Alive?
« Reply #19 on: July 27, 2020, 07:42:PM »
North Korea is a very interesting country.  It's as if they have decided to pursue a different path from the overarching hegemony of liberal capitalism and globalism.  Juche philosophy seems to be a sort of 'Korean national-socialism'.

It’s an interesting topic indeed. However a country like North Korea should not exist in the modern world.

Offline QCChevalier

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Re: Kim Jong Un. Dead or Alive?
« Reply #20 on: July 27, 2020, 08:00:PM »
It’s an interesting topic indeed. However a country like North Korea should not exist in the modern world.

I'm not so sure I agree with you.  Why shouldn't a nation or tribe or community of people strike out on their own?  Can we be sure that the North Korean people would be better off under a system more like ours than under the system they have?  How do we know average North Koreans aren't actually quite content with their lot and what we're being told, while no doubt containing some truth about abuses, also contains a large amount of propaganda (admittedly not helped by the attitude of the North Korean regime)?

(Before somebody accuses me of being a North Korean agent infiltrating the forum, I'm a Celtic-Anglo-Saxon and I work for the High Lizard Council.  In fact, I'll be reporting back to the lizards tomorrow).

Offline David1819

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Re: Kim Jong Un. Dead or Alive?
« Reply #21 on: July 28, 2020, 07:52:PM »
I'm not so sure I agree with you.  Why shouldn't a nation or tribe or community of people strike out on their own?  Can we be sure that the North Korean people would be better off under a system more like ours than under the system they have?  How do we know average North Koreans aren't actually quite content with their lot and what we're being told, while no doubt containing some truth about abuses, also contains a large amount of propaganda (admittedly not helped by the attitude of the North Korean regime)?

(Before somebody accuses me of being a North Korean agent infiltrating the forum, I'm a Celtic-Anglo-Saxon and I work for the High Lizard Council.  In fact, I'll be reporting back to the lizards tomorrow).

There are currently 35,000 North Koreans living in South Korea. They have risked their lives by defecting.

I think that speaks for itself.
« Last Edit: July 28, 2020, 07:54:PM by David1819 »

Offline QCChevalier

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Re: Kim Jong Un. Dead or Alive?
« Reply #22 on: July 28, 2020, 11:11:PM »
There are currently 35,000 North Koreans living in South Korea. They have risked their lives by defecting.

I think that speaks for itself.

Since North Korea has a population of more than 25 million, I suppose it does.

When the Inner German Border and Berlin Wall came down in 1989, there were those who called it freedom and who lambasted the inhumanity of the authoritarian system in East Germany, and no doubt they had a point: the East German regime was unpleasant.

However, let us reflect.  Was life better for East Germans under liberal capitalism or under planned socialism?  Did the East Germans who crossed the border to enjoy the mundane freedoms of the capitalist system become happier?
« Last Edit: July 28, 2020, 11:12:PM by QCChevalier »

Offline David1819

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Re: Kim Jong Un. Dead or Alive?
« Reply #23 on: July 28, 2020, 11:42:PM »
Since North Korea has a population of more than 25 million, I suppose it does.

When the Inner German Border and Berlin Wall came down in 1989, there were those who called it freedom and who lambasted the inhumanity of the authoritarian system in East Germany, and no doubt they had a point: the East German regime was unpleasant.

However, let us reflect.  Was life better for East Germans under liberal capitalism or under planned socialism?  Did the East Germans who crossed the border to enjoy the mundane freedoms of the capitalist system become happier?

You only have to look at North Korea from space at night. It looks like the south is an island.


Offline QCChevalier

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Re: Kim Jong Un. Dead or Alive?
« Reply #24 on: July 28, 2020, 11:43:PM »
You only have to look at North Korea from space at night. It looks like the south is an island.



Is that a bad thing, though?

Offline David1819

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Re: Kim Jong Un. Dead or Alive?
« Reply #25 on: July 29, 2020, 12:29:AM »
Is that a bad thing, though?

Have you tried living with little or no electricity?

Offline QCChevalier

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Re: Kim Jong Un. Dead or Alive?
« Reply #26 on: July 29, 2020, 12:32:AM »
Have you tried living with little or no electricity?

Well, yes I have actually.  And Man lived for hundreds of thousands of years without electricity, and seemed to do well.

But the point is that you're looking at this from the vantage point of Western Man under liberal capitalism.  Why do you think our system is better?

To take another example, there are still peoples in the Amazon, parts of Africa and central Asia that live without electricity and live a primitive tribal lifestyle.  Should we leave them alone or should we 'liberate' and 'civilise' them and give them the gift of electricity and liberal capitalism?

Will they be happy to see us when we turn up and tell them they should do things our way, because it's 'for their own good'?
« Last Edit: July 29, 2020, 12:40:AM by QCChevalier »

Offline David1819

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Re: Kim Jong Un. Dead or Alive?
« Reply #27 on: July 29, 2020, 12:52:AM »
Well, yes I have actually.  And Man lived for hundreds of thousands of years without electricity, and seemed to do well.

But the point is that you're looking at this from the vantage point of Western Man under liberal capitalism.  Why do you think our system is better?

To take another example, there are still peoples in the Amazon, parts of Africa and central Asia that live without electricity and live a primitive tribal lifestyle.  Should we leave them alone or should we 'liberate' and 'civilise' them and give them the gift of electricity and liberal capitalism?

Will they be happy to see us when we turn up and tell them they should do things our way, because it's 'for their own good'?

Why do you think the North Korean government controls all the TV stations all the publishing and does not allow its people access to the internet? They don’t want people to see how poor and deprived they are.

Offline QCChevalier

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Re: Kim Jong Un. Dead or Alive?
« Reply #28 on: July 29, 2020, 12:59:AM »
Why do you think the North Korean government controls all the TV stations all the publishing and does not allow its people access to the internet? They don’t want people to see how poor and deprived they are.

I certainly can't dispute that they are in control, but does the average North Korean care much? 

Who controls the media in the West?  I assume you don't think the Western media are free?

Are you free to get up tomorrow and do whatever you like and go where you like?

It seems to me the Western idea of freedom is imperfect in that it does fully comport with the reality of experience.

People without electricity could be seen as freer than we are.

Offline David1819

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Re: Kim Jong Un. Dead or Alive?
« Reply #29 on: July 29, 2020, 01:43:AM »

Who controls the media in the West?  I assume you don't think the Western media are free?


If you can setup a YouTube channel telling the world how UFOs abduct sheep then it’s very free indeed.