Author Topic: JB Blog (Drama & Press Articles)  (Read 1472 times)

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Offline maggie

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Re: JB Blog (Drama & Press Articles)
« Reply #30 on: March 08, 2020, 05:38:PM »
Bill has been consistent over the years and chances are his book will reflect this too which will make a refreshing change from other publications whose ideas have been to sensationalize/ fabricate and embroider rather than concentrate on that which has been omitted in this most important investigation.
Agreed Lookout.

Offline David1819

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Re: JB Blog (Drama & Press Articles)
« Reply #31 on: March 09, 2020, 04:04:PM »
    This is something of a revelation, to say the least. The statement given by DS Jones in 2002 to the Metropolitan police seems unequivocal and the obvious following questions are left begging.
    "you don't go hunting for things if you've got four murders and a suicide if you've got someone saying I've just killed myself, you don't start searching cupboards upstairs in the other rooms, because you've got a note saying I've killed myself so it was treated as four murders and a suicide, completely different."
    This is a direct quote of DS Jones. What else can it possibly mean other than the obvious interpretation. Sheila wrote a suicide note.
    Why was this hidden from the defence and only discovered a year ago?
   
   

Until more information comes to light, my interpretation of this is that DS Jones is either speaking broadly, metaphorically or paraphrasing.

"someone saying I've just killed myself"

Firstly someone who's just killed themselves cannot literally be "saying" anything. Otherwise they haven't killed themselves (obviously).

If you find someone dead with a gun and bible on them, then that person is metaphorically saying they have killed themselves via their last actions.

For example - Japanese pilots in the end statges WW2 began flying head on into American battleships. They never literally said they were killing themselves but their actions made it obvious what they were doing. Or once the second plane hit the twin towers, that was saying it was a deliberate attack. Not verbally or written. But by actions.

« Last Edit: March 09, 2020, 04:05:PM by David1819 »

Offline Roch

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Re: JB Blog (Drama & Press Articles)
« Reply #32 on: March 09, 2020, 07:34:PM »
Until more information comes to light, my interpretation of this is that DS Jones is either speaking broadly, metaphorically or paraphrasing.

"someone saying I've just killed myself"

Firstly someone who's just killed themselves cannot literally be "saying" anything. Otherwise they haven't killed themselves (obviously).

If you find someone dead with a gun and bible on them, then that person is metaphorically saying they have killed themselves via their last actions.

For example - Japanese pilots in the end statges WW2 began flying head on into American battleships. They never literally said they were killing themselves but their actions made it obvious what they were doing. Or once the second plane hit the twin towers, that was saying it was a deliberate attack. Not verbally or written. But by actions.

He uses the term note and therefore, he's referring to a note. He's likely paraphrasing and summarising a note.

Offline David1819

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Re: JB Blog (Drama & Press Articles)
« Reply #33 on: March 09, 2020, 09:29:PM »
He uses the term note and therefore, he's referring to a note. He's likely paraphrasing and summarising a note.

It don't mesh with the bigger picture. If there was an explicit suicide note found, Stan Jones would not be the only one who knew about it. Robert Boutflour would then be making up ways for Jeremy to make Sheila write the note ect ect.


Offline Steve_uk

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Re: JB Blog (Drama & Press Articles)
« Reply #34 on: March 09, 2020, 10:09:PM »
The guilters will read and respond to anything which stands up to scrutiny. We will not be sold a pup.

Offline gringo

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Re: JB Blog (Drama & Press Articles)
« Reply #35 on: March 10, 2020, 03:48:AM »
Until more information comes to light, my interpretation of this is that DS Jones is either speaking broadly, metaphorically or paraphrasing.

"someone saying I've just killed myself"

Firstly someone who's just killed themselves cannot literally be "saying" anything. Otherwise they haven't killed themselves (obviously).

If you find someone dead with a gun and bible on them, then that person is metaphorically saying they have killed themselves via their last actions.

For example - Japanese pilots in the end statges WW2 began flying head on into American battleships. They never literally said they were killing themselves but their actions made it obvious what they were doing. Or once the second plane hit the twin towers, that was saying it was a deliberate attack. Not verbally or written. But by actions.
    I agree that more information needs to come to light, hence my questions to Bill earlier. It seems more likely, to me at least, that Jones words were meant literally not metaphorically.
    As Roch pointed out, note is also mentioned. It is worth mentioning here that the bible and note protruding from it have never been disclosed, and in fact their existence was denied for years.   
     "you don't go hunting for things if you've got four murders and a suicide if you've got someone saying I've just killed myself, you don't start searching cupboards upstairs in other rooms, because you've got a note saying I've killed myself so it was treated as four murders and a suicide, completely different."
    It is stretching credulity that Jones, unprompted in a police interview, began speaking about metaphorical suicide notes.
    Missing and never disclosed notes, police officers talking of the existence of suicide notes. Hmmm makes one wonder.
    Perhaps they are related.

Offline JackieD

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Re: JB Blog (Drama & Press Articles)
« Reply #36 on: March 10, 2020, 12:29:PM »
    I agree that more information needs to come to light, hence my questions to Bill earlier. It seems more likely, to me at least, that Jones words were meant literally not metaphorically.
    As Roch pointed out, note is also mentioned. It is worth mentioning here that the bible and note protruding from it have never been disclosed, and in fact their existence was denied for years.   
     "you don't go hunting for things if you've got four murders and a suicide if you've got someone saying I've just killed myself, you don't start searching cupboards upstairs in other rooms, because you've got a note saying I've killed myself so it was treated as four murders and a suicide, completely different."
    It is stretching credulity that Jones, unprompted in a police interview, began speaking about metaphorical suicide notes.
    Missing and never disclosed notes, police officers talking of the existence of suicide notes. Hmmm makes one wonder.
    Perhaps they are related.

Thank you. The ‘mystery’ continues regarding non disclosure
From Colin Caffells
His relationship with Sheila was one of brotherly love. He was very proud of having a beautiful sister who was a photographic model

Offline mike tesko

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Re: JB Blog (Drama & Press Articles)
« Reply #37 on: March 10, 2020, 01:13:PM »
Until more information comes to light, my interpretation of this is that DS Jones is either speaking broadly, metaphorically or paraphrasing.

"someone saying I've just killed myself"

Firstly someone who's just killed themselves cannot literally be "saying" anything. Otherwise they haven't killed themselves (obviously).

If you find someone dead with a gun and bible on them, then that person is metaphorically saying they have killed themselves via their last actions.

For example - Japanese pilots in the end statges WW2 began flying head on into American battleships. They never literally said they were killing themselves but their actions made it obvious what they were doing. Or once the second plane hit the twin towers, that was saying it was a deliberate attack. Not verbally or written. But by actions.

Yes, I can see the point you are trying to make!

In this instance, however, Sheila hadn't killed herself already, but I agree because of what Jeremy has confided in me (recorded by prison security on behalf of the Home Office and its psychiatrists/psychologists, and other experts) that Sheila did not shoot or kill herself, although the note you refer to, did exist albeit it was written not by June, but by Sheila as part of Jeremy's plot to fool Sheila into believing that she was going to get an equal share in the parents estate(s)!
"Oh, what a tangled web we weave, when we first practice to deceive"...

Offline David1819

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Re: JB Blog (Drama & Press Articles)
« Reply #38 on: March 10, 2020, 01:18:PM »
    I agree that more information needs to come to light, hence my questions to Bill earlier. It seems more likely, to me at least, that Jones words were meant literally not metaphorically.
    As Roch pointed out, note is also mentioned. It is worth mentioning here that the bible and note protruding from it have never been disclosed, and in fact their existence was denied for years.   
     "you don't go hunting for things if you've got four murders and a suicide if you've got someone saying I've just killed myself, you don't start searching cupboards upstairs in other rooms, because you've got a note saying I've killed myself so it was treated as four murders and a suicide, completely different."
    It is stretching credulity that Jones, unprompted in a police interview, began speaking about metaphorical suicide notes.
    Missing and never disclosed notes, police officers talking of the existence of suicide notes. Hmmm makes one wonder.
    Perhaps they are related.

We have not even seen this interview in its entirety. Context is vital.

Offline gringo

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Re: JB Blog (Drama & Press Articles)
« Reply #39 on: March 10, 2020, 02:25:PM »
We have not even seen this interview in its entirety. Context is vital.
    Agreed. I did ask for Bill for more detail and context and he gave the context available. Reply 12 on this thread has the details and context as known. What is available would lead me to conclude that the comment was meant literally. Would like to read the full interview.
     

Offline Roch

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Re: JB Blog (Drama & Press Articles)
« Reply #40 on: March 10, 2020, 03:18:PM »
It don't mesh with the bigger picture. If there was an explicit suicide note found, Stan Jones would not be the only one who knew about it. Robert Boutflour would then be making up ways for Jeremy to make Sheila write the note ect ect.

It seems to mesh well with the bigger picture.  Palm print on bible couldn't be used against Jeremy - so they told the defence no photos existed of the bible.  A blatant lie. 

Somebody obviously realised, that there would be no way of proving that Jeremy Bamber coerced Sheila in to writing whichever 'note' DS Stan Jones is referring to.  Therefore, the note might have worked against the prosecution of Jeremy for the killings.  So the only other option was to dispense with it in some way or form.

If it is something we haven't seen in full already, then it was likely to be within the non-disclosed Kinneally report.

What is available would lead me to conclude that the comment was meant literally.

It shows that, early on, Stan Jones wasn't as suspicious as he is routinely made out to be.  Wasn't it Stan Jones who also expressed to Ann Eaton, that she could be aiding in an innocent man being sent to prison.. and Ann Eaton responded 'I can live with that'?

Either that, or he is providing a reason for his superior (DCI Jones) not having been suspicious himself - i.e. as a result of said 'note' being found. 

OR he (DS Stan Jones) felt safe enough in the company of Met interviewers to reveal snippets of info that potentially exculpated Jeremy.  Didn't he invite some Met officers to his leaving do.  Recognition for their support. 
« Last Edit: March 10, 2020, 03:33:PM by Roch »

Offline David1819

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Re: JB Blog (Drama & Press Articles)
« Reply #41 on: March 10, 2020, 03:36:PM »
It seems to mesh well with the bigger picture.  Palm print on bible couldn't be used against Jeremy - so they told the defence no photos existed of the bible.  A blatant lie. 

Somebody obviously realised, that there would be no way of proving that Jeremy Bamber coerced Sheila in to writing whichever 'note' DS Stan Jones is referring to.  Therefore, the note might work against the prosecution of Jeremy for the killings.  So the only other option was to dispense with it in some way or form. 

It shows that, early on, Stan Jones wasn't as suspicious as he is routinely made out to be.  Wasn't it Stan Jones who also expressed to Ann Eaton, that she could be aiding in an innocent man being sent to prison.. and Ann Eaton responded 'I can live with that'?

Either that, or he is providing a reason for DCI Jones not having been suspicious - i.e. as a result of said 'note' being found. 

Either that... OR he felt safe in revealing info that potentially exculpated Jeremy.  Didn't he invite some Met officers to his leaving do.  Recognition for their support.

A palm print inside the closed pages of a book is indistinct and obscure, it can go unnoticed and be overlooked.

If there was a distinct clear-cut suicide note written by Sheila, that was known to the investigators why were the relatives not informed about it and how on earth did JB get convicted?

Much like Nevils alleged call, the logical answer is there was no note in the first place.

« Last Edit: March 10, 2020, 03:37:PM by David1819 »

Offline Roch

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Re: JB Blog (Drama & Press Articles)
« Reply #42 on: March 10, 2020, 08:43:PM »
If there was a distinct clear-cut suicide note written by Sheila, that was known to the investigators why were the relatives not informed about it and how on earth did JB get convicted?

We don't know for certain that they weren't.  However, DCI Jones was under no obligation to tell them of the existence of such a note.  By concealment of evidence that indicated Sheila. 

Much like Nevill's alleged call, the logical answer is there was no note in the first place.

So your interpretation of this...

"What you've got to remember is, it wasn't five murders it was four murders and a suicide, which throws a completely different picture on it.

"Because things wouldn’t be treated the same as a murder scene."

"You don't go hunting for things if you've got four murders and a suicide if you've got someone saying I’ve just killed myself you don't start searching cupboards upstairs, you don't start searching cupboards in the other rooms, because you've got a note saying I've killed myself so it was treated as four murders and a suicide, completely different."


...is that Jones was referring to a note that didn't exist and wasn't found or acted upon.

« Last Edit: March 10, 2020, 08:45:PM by Roch »

Offline Steve_uk

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Re: JB Blog (Drama & Press Articles)
« Reply #43 on: March 10, 2020, 09:27:PM »
We don't know for certain that they weren't.  However, DCI Jones was under no obligation to tell them of the existence of such a note.  By concealment of evidence that indicated Sheila. 

So your interpretation of this...

"What you've got to remember is, it wasn't five murders it was four murders and a suicide, which throws a completely different picture on it.

"Because things wouldn’t be treated the same as a murder scene."

"You don't go hunting for things if you've got four murders and a suicide if you've got someone saying I’ve just killed myself you don't start searching cupboards upstairs, you don't start searching cupboards in the other rooms, because you've got a note saying I've killed myself so it was treated as four murders and a suicide, completely different."


...is that Jones was referring to a note that didn't exist and wasn't found or acted upon.
DCI Jones was desperate for his version of events to be accepted, if nothing more than to save face. I'm sorry but much of this thread is complete hogwash.

Offline David1819

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Re: JB Blog (Drama & Press Articles)
« Reply #44 on: March 10, 2020, 10:08:PM »
We don't know for certain that they weren't.  However, DCI Jones was under no obligation to tell them of the existence of such a note.  By concealment of evidence that indicated Sheila. 

So your interpretation of this...

"What you've got to remember is, it wasn't five murders it was four murders and a suicide, which throws a completely different picture on it.

"Because things wouldn’t be treated the same as a murder scene."

"You don't go hunting for things if you've got four murders and a suicide if you've got someone saying I’ve just killed myself you don't start searching cupboards upstairs, you don't start searching cupboards in the other rooms, because you've got a note saying I've killed myself so it was treated as four murders and a suicide, completely different."


...is that Jones was referring to a note that didn't exist and wasn't found or acted upon.

There are some five notes of erratic writing that were found. These pages don't mention any suicide but it could be implied as suicidal. Its possible he heard about these notes via hearsay and got the wrong end of the stick.

The very interview where this was said was used in JBs 2002 appeal hearing in regards to the kitchen phone issue. Don't you think his QC would have acted on this if its as compelling as its made out to be?