Author Topic: JB Blog (Drama & Press Articles)  (Read 1474 times)

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Offline JackieD

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Re: JB Blog (Drama & Press Articles)
« Reply #15 on: March 06, 2020, 01:06:PM »





The way I see it is that this note had been picked up by " Taff " Jones who'd initially verified the tragedy as a murder/suicide given the " written clue ", which he would then have passed to Stan Jones who'd hung on to it, but who had other thoughts in mind.
 Murder/suicide was too easy a case to have solved and wouldn't have involved as much work as a murder case. He'd wanted more !
 Was SJ looking at his own plan of furthering his career from being an ordinary sergeant ?  I think so.


Nothing seems to have changed


WHEN BRITISH JUSTICE FAILED

Court No. 2 of the somber Old Bailey Courthouse in London was packed to capacity last Oct. 19. Ranks of wigged lawyers squeezed into the jury box. A hundred reporters crowded the back benches; the public gallery was overflowing - but the courtroom was deathly silent.

As the Lord Chief Justice of England, Lord Lane, finished his summing up, his voice, quiet and restrained, carried to the back of the courtroom: ''These appeals are allowed and the convictions are quashed.''



For a second there was silence, and then the court erupted. Relatives cheered, the members of the press smiled, the four defendants kissed, whooped and threw carnations across the courtroom. The long, dark nightmare of the Guildford Four was over.


For 15 years, the Guildford Four, three young Irishmen and an English woman, had been imprisoned for horrific acts of terrorism carried out by the Irish Republican Army - two pub bombings, in Guildford and Woolwich, that left seven dead and scores injured.


The prison file of one defendant, Paul Hill, was stamped ''Never to be released.'' All four, the Government has now admitted, were innocent.


Thirty minutes after the court's decision was announced, one of those Irishmen, 34-year-old Gerard Conlon, walked out the front door of the Old Bailey into a world he had last seen when he was 20.



Outside, a triumphant crowd of Irish construction workers cheered and roared as Conlon proclaimed: ''I've been in prison for 15 years for something I didn't do. I'm totally innocent. I watched my father die in a British prison. He was innocent. The Maguires'' - seven people jailed in a related case - ''are innocent.''


The four defendants were convicted, Lord Lane noted, because the police ''lied.''


Three junior Surrey detectives were immediately suspended, and two retired officers are being investigated. In Parliament, Douglas Hurd, then the Home Secretary, announced an immediate judicial inquiry, to be headed by a retired judge, Sir John May, into the Guildford Four convictions and the Maguire case.


But the Guildford ''lie'' did not confine itself to a few junior policemen.


Like a virus it grew and grew until its corruption tainted the entire British legal system.

The Guildford Four case has now tarnished some of the loftiest legal and police reputations in England.



The judge who tried the Guildford Four and the Maguire family, Mr. Justice Donaldson, is now Lord Donaldson, Master of the Rolls - that is, head of the English civil law courts.

The prosecutor, Sir Michael Havers (now Lord Havers), was later promoted to Attorney General and eventually became Lord Chancellor - the constitutional head of the British legal system and Speaker in the House of Lords.


Peter Imbert, a policeman who played a major role in interrogating the Guildford Four and in capturing the real I.R.A. bombers, today is Sir Peter Imbert and, as Metropolitan Police Commissioner for London, holds the most powerful police post in Britain.


''From the moment the police caught the real I.R.A. bombers, the authorities knew the Guildford Four were innocent,'' says Chris Mullin, a Labor member of Parliament who has campaigned against other miscarriages of justice.

 ''In order to obtain and sustain these convictions, the judicial process had to be bent from top to bottom.''
From Colin Caffells
His relationship with Sheila was one of brotherly love. He was very proud of having a beautiful sister who was a photographic model

Offline lookout

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Re: JB Blog (Drama & Press Articles)
« Reply #16 on: March 06, 2020, 03:14:PM »
A disgrace isn't it ? Notice those who shout guilty shout the loudest ?? They haven't a clue !

Offline gringo

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Re: JB Blog (Drama & Press Articles)
« Reply #17 on: March 06, 2020, 03:39:PM »
   
   It was hidden from the defence for the obvious reason that Michael Ainsley wanted to falsely convict Jeremy of 5 murders. Why was it only discovered a year ago? I actually found the quotation nearly two years ago when I was asked to review some materials related to the Met Police Stokenchurch enquiry. It was a record of a discussion on 6th August 2002. Retired DS21 Stan Jones was interviewed by DCI Jeanette McDiarmid and DI Paul Brown. This was in relation to the kitchen telephone at White House Farm. Because Stan Jones loved the sound of his own voice he couldn't resist going 'off-topic'. So, when the discussion was supposed to be about the cream coloured kitchen telephone he just suddenly started talking about the suicide note.

Jones was clearly saying that the police had possession of a suicide note and they knew it was a case of four murders and suicide. Neither police officer picked up on this or questioned him further on this subject. Why? Because the 'system' had convicted Jeremy of murder and the 'system' was not interested in evidence that indicated that he was innocent.

If the Stokenchurch investigators had been competent and diligent they would have realised immediately that Jones had admitted to something of major consequence in Jeremy’s defence. What did they do? They changed the subject entirely; the next question to Jones was, “The point I’m trying to establish if you have knowledge of anybody…using any of the phone (sic) inside the house”. An honest and conscientious police officer keen to establish the truth would have probed Stan Jones further on the issue. For example, which suicide note? What did it say? What happened to it? Why was it not made known to Jeremy’s defence lawyers? Who made the decision to deny the fact of its existence?

Instead, DCI McDiarmid and DI Brown have walked around for the past 18 years in the knowledge that Jeremy is innocent and locked up and it seems that they don't care. They did their job in the Stokenchurch enquiry, which was to make sure that no evidence emerged that would compromise Jeremy's convictions for murder.

Why was this not known before 2018? Because there are an estimated 4 million pages of documentation related to the case and it takes a long time for a very small team of people to read through it all. And we are people who are not paid, not full-time employees, fitting in our research when we have spare time and we have other responsibilities apart from trying to help Jeremy. Hopefully the discovery of this evidence related to the suicide note will contribute to Jeremy's release.
    Thanks for the extra detail, Bill. The question was largely rhetorical in that the reason for withholding was understood, the detail is always helpful however.
    A non rhetorical question question now. Do you know what the response of the Met and EP was to this? Also what exactly was put to them by the defence regarding this revelation? It is stated that the evidence is not disputed by EP or the Met. What does this mean? What was the response?
    The whole thing leaves questions just begging to be asked.

Offline arthur

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Re: JB Blog (Drama & Press Articles)
« Reply #18 on: March 07, 2020, 12:02:AM »





The way I see it is that this note had been picked up by " Taff " Jones who'd initially verified the tragedy as a murder/suicide given the " written clue ", which he would then have passed to Stan Jones who'd hung on to it, but who had other thoughts in mind.
 Murder/suicide was too easy a case to have solved and wouldn't have involved as much work as a murder case. He'd wanted more !
 Was SJ looking at his own plan of furthering his career from being an ordinary sergeant ?  I think so.

But why would "Taff" Jones hand vital evidence to Stan Jones. Stan Jones wasn't the gaffa on the case. Stan Jones wouldn't withhold vital evidence just to increase his work load or further his career.

More likely that "Taff" Jones incident book, notes, documents, and all that related to the work he did on the case, wasn't passed to JB's defence. And the note "disappeared" along with all of T.Jones work on the case. Stan Jones might've known of the note but never took it into his possession. All speculation as both are now deceased.

If a record of the conversation taken place on 6th August 2002, during which Stan Jones mentioned a suicide note, is still in archives then obviously JB's defence team should have access to it.

Offline Janet ((Formerly known as Takeshi))

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Re: JB Blog (Drama & Press Articles)
« Reply #19 on: March 07, 2020, 03:04:AM »
Roch, where did this document come from that you posted in July 2017?

http://jeremybamberforum.co.uk/index.php/topic,8538.0.html
"It is better that ten guilty persons escape than that one innocent suffer" - William Blackstone

Offline Bill Robertson

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Re: JB Blog (Drama & Press Articles)
« Reply #20 on: March 07, 2020, 06:26:AM »
Do you know what the response of the Met and EP was to this? Also what exactly was put to them by the defence regarding this revelation? It is stated that the evidence is not disputed by EP or the Met. What does this mean? What was the response?
    The whole thing leaves questions just begging to be asked.
Sorry, I don't know; I'm not privy to any information on that. I research documents if I'm asked to so so and pass on the results but I don't have any further role in how the information is used. I agree that the issue of the suicide note opens up a lot of further questions, such as whether it still exists. It could perhaps still be in the documents gathered during the first Taff Jones enquiry.

Offline Bill Robertson

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Re: JB Blog (Drama & Press Articles)
« Reply #21 on: March 07, 2020, 06:32:AM »
Roch, where did this document come from that you posted in July 2017?

http://jeremybamberforum.co.uk/index.php/topic,8538.0.html
I sent it to Roch, I had forgotten that it was around 3 years ago that I found the information about SJ and the suicide note. It is part of the research I conducted for a book on the case, which has not yet been published.

Offline Roch

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Re: JB Blog (Drama & Press Articles)
« Reply #22 on: March 07, 2020, 10:55:AM »
Roch, where did this document come from that you posted in July 2017?

http://jeremybamberforum.co.uk/index.php/topic,8538.0.html

Hi Janet, I see Bill has already answered. He has provided several other interesting pieces, for example about police culture in 80's and how a 'frame' could be attempted (not of the industrial variety espoused by Adam).
« Last Edit: March 07, 2020, 10:56:AM by Roch »

Offline JackieD

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Re: JB Blog (Drama & Press Articles)
« Reply #23 on: March 07, 2020, 12:30:PM »
I sent it to Roch, I had forgotten that it was around 3 years ago that I found the information about SJ and the suicide note. It is part of the research I conducted for a book on the case, which has not yet been published.

Bill I am desperate to see an honest factual book on the case which could prompt a honest drama to be commissioned

Any news when it might be released

Thank you
From Colin Caffells
His relationship with Sheila was one of brotherly love. He was very proud of having a beautiful sister who was a photographic model

Offline Bill Robertson

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Re: JB Blog (Drama & Press Articles)
« Reply #24 on: March 07, 2020, 03:20:PM »
Bill I am desperate to see an honest factual book on the case which could prompt a honest drama to be commissioned

Any news when it might be released

Thank you
Hopefully in the first half of this year. It has been a long slog. We discovered many things now tied up in Jeremy’s appeal, so publication is to a large extent tied in with the appeal. I.e. so as not to give away information that needs to remain confidential.

Offline JackieD

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Re: JB Blog (Drama & Press Articles)
« Reply #25 on: March 07, 2020, 03:33:PM »
Thank you
From Colin Caffells
His relationship with Sheila was one of brotherly love. He was very proud of having a beautiful sister who was a photographic model

Offline chris28

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Re: JB Blog (Drama & Press Articles)
« Reply #26 on: March 07, 2020, 05:22:PM »
It will be brilliant a decent book about the case.look forward to it being published

Offline maggie

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Re: JB Blog (Drama & Press Articles)
« Reply #27 on: March 07, 2020, 05:43:PM »
Hopefully in the first half of this year. It has been a long slog. We discovered many things now tied up in Jeremy’s appeal, so publication is to a large extent tied in with the appeal. I.e. so as not to give away information that needs to remain confidential.
Thanks Bill, look forward to reading it, hoping at last the truth is close to being told.

Offline lookout

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Re: JB Blog (Drama & Press Articles)
« Reply #28 on: March 08, 2020, 10:42:AM »
Bill has been consistent over the years and chances are his book will reflect this too which will make a refreshing change from other publications whose ideas have been to sensationalize/ fabricate and embroider rather than concentrate on that which has been omitted in this most important investigation.

Offline JackieD

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Re: JB Blog (Drama & Press Articles)
« Reply #29 on: March 08, 2020, 01:26:PM »
Bill has been consistent over the years and chances are his book will reflect this too which will make a refreshing change from other publications whose ideas have been to sensationalize/ fabricate and embroider rather than concentrate on that which has been omitted in this most important investigation.


Ditto Lookout  :) :) :)

There has been a much more positive vibe on this forum lately with members trying to get to the truth without the constant abuse
From Colin Caffells
His relationship with Sheila was one of brotherly love. He was very proud of having a beautiful sister who was a photographic model