Author Topic: Hand swab charts  (Read 1787 times)

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Offline David1819

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Hand swab charts
« on: February 24, 2020, 08:00:PM »
I have overlapped all three of Sheila's hand swab charts.

Green = Control swab
Pink = Right hand swab
Red= Left hand swab



More to come.

Offline Janet ((Formerly known as Takeshi))

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Re: Hand swab charts
« Reply #1 on: February 25, 2020, 08:12:AM »
David is the control swab the one they took of her forehead?
"It is better that ten guilty persons escape than that one innocent suffer" - William Blackstone

Offline David1819

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Re: Hand swab charts
« Reply #2 on: February 25, 2020, 01:36:PM »
David is the control swab the one they took of her forehead?

No. Its just a control swab.

Offline David1819

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Re: Hand swab charts
« Reply #3 on: February 25, 2020, 05:41:PM »
These charts compare Sheila's left and right hand to the left and right hand of one of the lab testees who loaded 18 bullets into the magazine.

Red= Sheila's right hand.
Blue = Lab staff right hand.


Pink = Sheila's left hand.
Blue = Lab staff left hand.

Offline David1819

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Re: Hand swab charts
« Reply #4 on: February 25, 2020, 06:14:PM »
Both left hands have roughly the same elevated levels of copper and iron. Both right hands have elevated levels of lead, but the lab staff has more lead.

According to Brian Elliot's cross examination. Lead is softer and can easily be wiped off.

Q: Lead is the softer you say, or lead particles are the softer?

A: Of the three metals we discussed so far.

Q: And much easier to smear off because of that?

A: To smear on and to smear off.

Q: To smear on and to smear off?

A: Yes.



Offline David1819

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Re: Hand swab charts
« Reply #5 on: February 25, 2020, 08:32:PM »
Lead on right hand from holding bullets. Copper on the left hand from particles of the brass casings being scratched as they get inserted into the magazine.

Offline Janet ((Formerly known as Takeshi))

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Re: Hand swab charts
« Reply #6 on: February 26, 2020, 12:18:AM »
So the results from Sheila's swabs peak in all the same places as the swabs from the lab testee, all be it not as high. I wonder how soon after the testee had loaded the bullets into the magazine these swabs were taken? Could it have been immediately? Whereas if Sheila loaded the magazine we know this had to be at least 12 hours prior to her swabs being taken, possibly even longer. Could this account for the difference?

Also, were swabs taken from the testee before he/she loaded the magazine? How else are we to know what 'normal' levels of these metals were present.

Sorry David. Not expecting you to have answers for all of these questions. Just thinking out loud.
"It is better that ten guilty persons escape than that one innocent suffer" - William Blackstone

Offline Roch

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Re: Hand swab charts
« Reply #7 on: February 26, 2020, 11:05:AM »
Thanks for posting this up David.  Interesting. 


Offline Adam

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Re: Hand swab charts
« Reply #8 on: February 26, 2020, 01:33:PM »
Regarding Sheila's condition, both parties  need to go by the COA evidence. Rather than bouncing bullets diagrams and colourful charts from David.

The list is below.

----------

Perfectly clean palm of hands on Sheila - Not disputed - COA


One blood mark on back of hand of Sheila - Not disputed - COA


Extremley low levels of lead found on hands on Sheila.  Not consistent with handling a rifle. Significantly higher traces expected - Not disputed - COA, BAMBER'S DEFENCE.


Well manicured nails on Sheila - Not disputed - COA.


No broken nails - Not disputed COA.


Nails in tact - Not disputed - COA.


No marks or indentations on Sheila's fingers - Not disputed - COA.


No blood on finger tips - Not disputed - COA.


No dirt on finger tips - Not disputed - COA.


No powder on finger tips - Not disputed - COA.


No trace of any lead dust coating on Sheila - Not disputed - COA.


No traces of the lubricant from re loading twice - Not disputed - COA


Very clean feet - Disputed with one picture of foot with redness - COA.


Feet free from significant blood staining - Disputed with one picture of foot with redness - COA.


Bamber doing nothing between 3.10am - 3.26/36am - Not disputed - COA, BAMBER.


No debris such as sugar on feet - Not disputed - COA.


No foot injuries after bare footed aggressive movement around big house & brutal fight - Not disputed - PHOTOGRAPHS, PATHOLOGIST, COA.


Only Sheila Caffell's blood on nightdress - Not disputed - COA.


No presence of firearm residue on nightdress - Not disputed - COA.


No trace of rifle oil on nightdress - Not disputed - COA.


No mention of nightdress damage from agressive movement and brutal kitchen fight - Not disputed - COA.


No facial injuries on Sheila - Not disputed - PHOTOGRAPHS, PATHOLOGIST, COA.


Sheila avoiding kitchen fight injuries with no body or face protection - Not disputed - COA.


Nevill's massive height/weight advantage over Sheila - Not disputed - COA.


Impossibility of shower removing evidence off Sheila - Not disputed -


Nevill being found bare footed in pyjamas suggesting had just got out of bed - Not disputed - COA.


Sheila being found bare footed in pyjamas suggesting she had just got out of bed - Not disputed - COA.


Paint in silencer - Not disputed but suggestion from Bamber cousins did this - COA.


Aga scratch's - Not disputed but suggestion from Bamber cousins did this - COA. 


Sheila's blood in silencer - Not disputed but suggestion from Bamber cousins did this - COA.


No blood in the rifle end - Not disputed - COA. 


Sheila's legs pulled after second shot - Not disputed - COA.


Blood underneath the bible - Not disputed - COA.


A lot of blood on Nevill's side of the bed - Not disputed - COA.


Large scale multiple mental & physical effects of Haloperidol - Not disputed. - INTERNET ARTICLES, YOUTUBE, COA.


Sheila having Haloperidol in her body - Not disputed - COA.


Sheila's condition hours before the massacre - Not disputed. Bamber being a main witness - BAMBER & OTHER PEOPLE, COA.


Sheila under sedation - Not disputed - COA.


Easy window entrance into WHF - Not disputed. Agreed by Bamber. - BAMBER, COA.


Shutting kitchen window from outside - Disputed in 2017 but 20 independent sources prove otherwise - COA.


Easy bike routes to WHF - Not disputed - COA.


Bike brought to Bamber's cottage just before the massacre - Not disputed - BAMBERS POLICE INTERVIEWS, COA.


June not waking or getting woken by Nevill - Not disputed - COA.


Nevill's back burns - Not disputed. Suggestion burns were caused minus silencer rejected - BAMBER, TONIGHT PROGRAMME, COA.


The twins not waking - Not disputed - COA. 


Bamber's call to the police - Not disputed - COA. 


Nevill's horrific injuries - Not disputed - COA.


Bamber's 3am call to Julie - Not disputed - COA. 


Nevill's 2/4 second call to Bamber - Not disputed - BAMBER, COA.


Nevill's back burns - Not disputed - COA. 


Crime scenes of 5 individuals - Not disputed - COA. 


Bamber's found hacksaw - Not disputed - COA.


Bible on Sheila's arm- Not disputed - PHOTOGRAPHS, COA


Housekeeper evidence of items around the sink being moved - Not disputed- PB WS, WILKES'S BOOK


Only Sheila receiving a contact shot in a location that produces back splatter- Not disputed, COA.


Bloodied plam print on Sheila's nightdress - Not disputed. COA.


Nevill being lifted onto a coal scuttle - Not disputed. CRIME SCENE PICTURES, COA.


Dried blood on Sheila - Not Disputed. PATHOLOGIST.


Sheila having to load prior to first shots - Not disputed. COA


Blood in silencer being Sheila's with remote possibility of being a mixture of June's & Nevill's - Not disputed, COA.

The bible being closed then opened with blood inside - Not disputed, COA.

« Last Edit: February 26, 2020, 05:44:PM by Adam »
'Only I know what really happened that night'.

Offline David1819

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Re: Hand swab charts
« Reply #9 on: February 26, 2020, 01:40:PM »
Regarding Sheila's condition, both parties  need to go by the COA evidence. Rather than bouncing bullets diagrams and colourful charts from David. The list is below.

----------

Perfectly clean palm of hands on Sheila - Not disputed - COA


One blood mark on back of hand of Sheila - Not disputed - COA


Extremley low levels of lead found on hands on Sheila.  Not consistent with handling a rifle. Significantly higher traces expected - Not disputed - COA, BAMBER'S DEFENCE.


Well manicured nails on Sheila - Not disputed - COA.


No broken nails - Not disputed COA.


Nails in tact - Not disputed - COA.


No marks or indentations on Sheila's fingers - Not disputed - COA.


No blood on finger tips - Not disputed - COA.


No dirt on finger tips - Not disputed - COA.


No powder on finger tips - Not disputed - COA.


No trace of any lead dust coating on Sheila - Not disputed - COA.


No traces of the lubricant from re loading twice - Not disputed - COA


Very clean feet - Disputed with one picture of foot with redness - COA.


Feet free from significant blood staining - Disputed with one picture of foot with redness - COA.


Bamber doing nothing between 3.10am - 3.26/36am - Not disputed - COA, BAMBER.


No debris such as sugar on feet - Not disputed - COA.


No foot injuries after bare footed aggressive movement around big house & brutal fight - Not disputed - PHOTOGRAPHS, PATHOLOGIST, COA.


Only Sheila Caffell's blood on nightdress - Not disputed - COA.


No presence of firearm residue on nightdress - Not disputed - COA.


No trace of rifle oil on nightdress - Not disputed - COA.


No mention of nightdress damage from agressive movement and brutal kitchen fight - Not disputed - COA.


No facial injuries on Sheila - Not disputed - PHOTOGRAPHS, PATHOLOGIST, COA.


Sheila avoiding kitchen fight injuries with no body or face protection - Not disputed - COA.


Nevill's massive height/weight advantage over Sheila - Not disputed - COA.


Impossibility of shower removing evidence off Sheila - Not disputed -


Nevill being found bare footed in pyjamas suggesting had just got out of bed - Not disputed - COA.


Sheila being found bare footed in pyjamas suggesting she had just got out of bed - Not disputed - COA.


Paint in silencer - Not disputed but suggestion from Bamber cousins did this - COA.


Aga scratch's - Not disputed but suggestion from Bamber cousins did this - COA. 


Sheila's blood in silencer - Not disputed but suggestion from Bamber cousins did this - COA.


No blood in the rifle end - Not disputed - COA. 


Sheila's legs pulled after second shot - Not disputed - COA.


Blood underneath the bible - Not disputed - COA.


A lot of blood on Nevill's side of the bed - Not disputed - COA.


Large scale multiple mental & physical effects of Haloperidol - Not disputed. - INTERNET ARTICLES, YOUTUBE, COA.

A gish gallop of BS is not evidence.

Offline David1819

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Re: Hand swab charts
« Reply #10 on: February 26, 2020, 01:45:PM »
So the results from Sheila's swabs peak in all the same places as the swabs from the lab testee, all be it not as high. I wonder how soon after the testee had loaded the bullets into the magazine these swabs were taken? Could it have been immediately? Whereas if Sheila loaded the magazine we know this had to be at least 12 hours prior to her swabs being taken, possibly even longer. Could this account for the difference?

Also, were swabs taken from the testee before he/she loaded the magazine? How else are we to know what 'normal' levels of these metals were present.

Sorry David. Not expecting you to have answers for all of these questions. Just thinking out loud.

I assume the testees had the swabs taken just after they re-loaded.

The lab reports say Sheila was unlikely to have loaded the weapon "shortly before her death" and that's it.

The way it became expressed at trial was rather different.