Author Topic: The guardian  (Read 835 times)

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Offline Jan

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Re: The guardian
« Reply #15 on: February 11, 2020, 07:41:PM »
Maybe it was the famous hair trigger Adam.  Maybe one of the 'informatives' drafted in to practice moving the gun from Sheila, triggered the weapon in error?   Who knows.


I agree some of what is said was excused before but they are saying more statements have been found .

I suppose we have to wait and see .


Offline David1819

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Re: The guardian
« Reply #16 on: February 11, 2020, 07:42:PM »
The newly discovered statements show that before the Essex police photographer began taking crime scene photographs at the scene at 10.20am on 7 August, illustrating that Caffell had sustained two gunshot wounds, five senior officers and the police surgeon had seen Caffell and suggested there was only one wound.

Dr Craig's statement of one wound is already on here.

Gibbons said he saw “a younger female with a wound to her throat”.

Miller recorded in a report dated 15 August: “The wound appeared to have been made by her own hand.”

report dated 9 August, stated: “The appearance suggested in the case of Sheila Caffell the wound had been inflicted by her own hand.”


This to me just looks like a play on words. If this guy thinks he's going to take the phrase "the wound" and imply that means just one, combined with the observations of a piss head. That's a plan going nowhere fast.
« Last Edit: February 11, 2020, 07:43:PM by David1819 »

Offline Jan

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Re: The guardian
« Reply #17 on: February 11, 2020, 07:43:PM »
Maybe it was the famous hair trigger Adam.  Maybe one of the 'informatives' drafted in to practice moving the gun from Sheila, triggered the weapon in error?   Who knows.

If it was accidental , then they would have tried to cover that up . Definitely .


Offline Adam

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Re: The guardian
« Reply #18 on: February 11, 2020, 07:43:PM »
Maybe it was the famous hair trigger Adam.  Maybe one of the 'informatives' drafted in to practice moving the gun from Sheila, triggered the weapon in error?   Who knows.

Could be.

The CT are agreeing Sheila was knocked out/dead after the first shot.

They would have used their own weapons if Sheila was alive and a threat.
'Only I know what really happened that night'.

Offline Kaldin

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Re: The guardian
« Reply #19 on: February 11, 2020, 07:44:PM »
I think this is another dead end. Dr Vanezis said all along that Sheila could have shot herself twice. He also said that the shots were in quick succession in his opinion.

Offline Jan

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Re: The guardian
« Reply #20 on: February 11, 2020, 07:45:PM »
Dr Craig's statement of one wound is already on here.

Gibbons said he saw “a younger female with a wound to her throat”.

Miller recorded in a report dated 15 August: “The wound appeared to have been made by her own hand.”

report dated 9 August, stated: “The appearance suggested in the case of Sheila Caffell the wound had been inflicted by her own hand.”


No I totally agree with you l because the way he reported about the other bodies from what I remember was very similar . So it just showed a sloppy method of reporting . The only importing bit is the reports from other officers if they exist .


This to me just looks like a play on words. If this guy thinks he's going to take the phrase "the wound" and imply that means just one, combined with the observations of a piss head. That's a plan going nowhere fast.

Online mike tesko

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Re: The guardian
« Reply #21 on: February 11, 2020, 07:46:PM »
Ewen Smith, who was Jeremy Bambers solicitor prior to Giovanni de Stefano taking on that role, went to visit Dr Craig and his wife at their home address, to find out at first hand how many bullet entry wounds Sheila had to her neck when he pronounced her as being dead, when her body was laid on the far side of the bed? Craig confirmed that by that stage Sheila only had one bullet wound to her neck!

This visit coincided with the CCRC lending Ewen Smith with previously undisclosed crime scene photographs, and images taken at the mortuary during the autopsy's. U will all no doubt recall that although Ewen Smith was not supposed to let anyone else see this collect of photographs, but that he allowed me access to them in his Birmingham office. I saw many close up grisly images of the wounded victims which was rather distressing.  When I saw the photograph of Sheila's body which was laid on top of her parents bed she only had a single bullet entry wound to her neck. There was no blood pouring out of the corner of her mouth, or any second bullet entry wound and there was no triangular shaped bloodstain on the right hand side of her light blue nightdress. I took that photograph without Ewen knowing that I took it. I sent it to Jeremy who was being detained at HMP Full Sutton, nr York. I spoke to Jeremy that evening over the telephone and told him that I had got my hands on a photograph of Sheila's body on top of the bed, with only one bullet wound to her neck. I told him I was sending it into him in accordance with the privilege of a McKensie man. But prison security intercepted my letter and the photograph, and Jeremy was going barmy saying that I had fucked everything up. He was not allowed to see the contents of my letter, or the damning photograph evidence. Jeremy made an appointment to speak to the governor about getting possible access to m6 letter and the photograph, but the governor told Jeremy that he could not have any access, and that the letter with the photograph would be placed on his prison file...

Who took the photograph of Sheila's body laid on top of her parents bed, at a time when she had only been shot once? It can't have been the Witham SOCO's because according to the evidence they didn't get control of the farmhouse until 10 am,  and by all accounts, PC Bird didn't start taking photographs until after 10.20am...

Which other 9 photograph negatives were attached to the negative strip, upon which the photograph of Sheila on the bed was taken. The only people who could have taken that photograph were Headquarters SOCO who entered the farmhouse with senior officers when they carried out 'informatives'..
"Oh, what a tangled web we weave, when we first practice to deceive"...

Offline Jan

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Re: The guardian
« Reply #22 on: February 11, 2020, 07:48:PM »
I think this is another dead end. Dr Vanezis said all along that Sheila could have shot herself twice. He also said that the shots were in quick succession in his opinion.

I also agree with that . Because it was not a main determining incriminating piece of evidence . But if they have found statements and it does  suggest that there was an accident , and it was covered up then that would cast serious doubt about what else they are hiding .


Offline Adam

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Re: The guardian
« Reply #23 on: February 11, 2020, 07:49:PM »
The CT are agreeing Sheila was not alive inside WHF while the police were outside.

She was upstairs. Dead from one bullet. The police accidentially shot Sheila a second time with the murder weapon.

This does not make Bamber innocent. Do not know if it would be sufficient for a technicality.
'Only I know what really happened that night'.

Offline Adam

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Re: The guardian
« Reply #24 on: February 11, 2020, 07:51:PM »
Thank goodness the  CT have finally dismissed the  Sheila alive inside WHF claim. 
'Only I know what really happened that night'.

Offline Jan

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Re: The guardian
« Reply #25 on: February 11, 2020, 07:51:PM »
Ewen Smith, who was Jeremy Bambers solicitor prior to Giovanni de Stefano taking on that role, went to visit Dr Craig and his wife at their home address, to find out at first hand how many bullet entry wounds Sheila had to her neck when he pronounced her as being dead, when her body was laid on the far side of the bed? Craig confirmed that by that stage Sheila only had one bullet wound to her neck!

This visit coincided with the CCRC lending Ewen Smith with previously undisclosed crime scene photographs, and images taken at the mortuary during the autopsy's. U will all no doubt recall that although Ewen Smith was not supposed to let anyone else see this collect of photographs, but that he allowed me access to them in his Birmingham office. I saw many close up grisly images of the wounded victims which was rather distressing.  When I saw the photograph of Sheila's body which was laid on top of her parents bed she only had a single bullet entry wound to her neck. There was no blood pouring out of the corner of her mouth, or any second bullet entry wound and there was no triangular shaped bloodstain on the right hand side of her light blue nightdress. I took that photograph without Ewen knowing that I took it. I sent it to Jeremy who was being detained at HMP Full Sutton, nr York. I spoke to Jeremy that evening over the telephone and told him that I had got my hands on a photograph of Sheila's body on top of the bed, with only one bullet wound to her neck. I told him I was sending it into him in accordance with the privilege of a McKensie man. But prison security intercepted my letter and the photograph, and Jeremy was going barmy saying that I had fucked everything up. He was not allowed to see the contents of my letter, or the damning photograph evidence. Jeremy made an appointment to speak to the governor about getting possible access to m6 letter and the photograph, but the governor told Jeremy that he could not have any access, and that the letter with the photograph would be placed on his prison file...

Who took the photograph of Sheila's body laid on top of her parents bed, at a time when she had only been shot once? It can't have been the Witham SOCO's because according to the evidence they didn't get control of the farmhouse until 10 am,  and by all accounts, PC Bird didn't start taking photographs until after 10.20am...

Which other 9 photograph negatives were attached to the negative strip, upon which the photograph of Sheila on the bed was taken. The only people who could have taken that photograph were Headquarters SOCO who entered the farmhouse with senior officers when they carried out 'informatives'..



The thing is they are claiming they have found evidence that 5 senior officers knew about this , but would they have dared to write this down anywhere ? It doe not seem feasible does it ?

Offline Kaldin

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Re: The guardian
« Reply #26 on: February 11, 2020, 07:54:PM »
The CT are agreeing Sheila was not alive inside WHF while the police were outside.

She was upstairs. Dead from one bullet. The police accidentially shot Sheila a second time with the murder weapon.

This does not make Bamber innocent. Do not know if it would be sufficient for a technicality.

That can't be. Dead bodies don't bleed - not for long anyway.

Offline Jan

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Re: The guardian
« Reply #27 on: February 11, 2020, 07:54:PM »
The CT are agreeing Sheila was not alive inside WHF while the police were outside.

She was upstairs. Dead from one bullet. The police accidentially shot Sheila a second time with the murder weapon.

This does not make Bamber innocent. Do not know if it would be sufficient for a technicality.

I agree . However it would cast serious doubt on the excuses they have made for other alleged evidence . 

To be honest for the reasons I have stated above I am not sure either .

Just being honest .


Online mike tesko

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Re: The guardian
« Reply #28 on: February 11, 2020, 07:55:PM »
I think this is another dead end. Dr Vanezis said all along that Sheila could have shot herself twice. He also said that the shots were in quick succession in his opinion.

Dr Venezia didn't witness Sheila getting shot twice!

Another pathologist who testified during the trial (professor Knight), told of the likelihood that half an hour or so could have elapsed between each of the two shots being fired, and that it was possible that Sheila might still have been able to walk around before she received the second fatal shot upstairs in the main bedroom. I do not believe that Knight meant that Sheila was moving around continually throughout the half hour period he mentioned, but rather that she could have collapsed and eventually recovered and made her way onto the bed in her parents bedroom where she collapsed into unconscioussness..
« Last Edit: February 11, 2020, 07:59:PM by mike tesko »
"Oh, what a tangled web we weave, when we first practice to deceive"...

Offline Jan

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Re: The guardian
« Reply #29 on: February 11, 2020, 07:56:PM »
That can't be. Dead bodies don't bleed - not for long anyway.

You say that but they said in the Michael Barrymore case that Stuart lubbock was still bleeding at the mortuary . I was really surprised at that .