Author Topic: why search the woods in the first place.  (Read 298 times)

0 Members and 2 Guests are viewing this topic.

Offline nugnug

  • Hero Member
  • ******
  • Posts: 15042
    • http://www.google.co.uk/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&cd=1&cad=rja&ved=0CDMQFjAA&url=http%3A%2F%2Fjohnnyvoid.wordpress.com%2F&ei=WTdUUo3IM6mY0QWYz4GADg&usg=AFQjCNE-8xtZuPAZ52VkntYOokH5da5MIA&bvm=bv.5353710
why search the woods in the first place.
« on: November 30, 2019, 07:49:PM »
a teenager is late home that's all the information  you have now as far as you know there alive and well why would they be hanging around in a wood in the dark and why would you think they were.

but that was the first place the search party went so they must of that but why.
« Last Edit: November 30, 2019, 07:52:PM by nugnug »

Offline sandra L

  • Senior Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 954
Re: why search the woods in the first place.
« Reply #1 on: November 30, 2019, 09:34:PM »
In fairness, Nugnug, nobody ever said they were going to search the woods. Everybody headed to Roan's Dyke path, which is on the open field side of the wall, rather than the woodland side.

But Jodi was believed, by her family, to be intending to hang out "up here" - Easthouses and Mayfield. The very top of Roan's Dyke path, behind Newbattle High School (as it was back then) is probably the last place anyone local would have referred to as "Easthouses" - west of that point, you're either heading south(ish) towards Newtongrange or west, towards Newbattle.

So I suppose the real question should be, why did the family search trio head directly to that path? It was leading in the opposite direction to where Jodi was believed to be heading that night. All of the information available to them was that she was supposed to be in Easthouses/Mayfield  - not one of them had a clue she was intending to meet Luke in Newbattle, so why did they head directly there?

By their own admissions, they didn't even start calling out her name until they were more than 20 minutes into their search. Didn't turn on their torches until they turned onto the path.

The information they had was "a teenager is late home, I phoned her boyfriend (the person I thought she was supposed to be with) and he hasn't seen her" - that's it. All they had to go on. Why not check all the other places Jodi might have been (and was known to have been previously) before heading straight for the path?

Judith didn't ask  Luke what their (his and Jodi's) arrangements were  - she simply hung up on Luke when he said he hadn't seen Jodi. So what was the basis for the search trio's immediate assumption that Jodi must have been on the path?

Janine said, on the stand, under cross-examination -We weren't going all the way to Newbattle - we were only going to the path. Why?
« Last Edit: December 01, 2019, 07:13:AM by sandra L »

Offline David1819

  • Veteran Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 7459
Re: why search the woods in the first place.
« Reply #2 on: November 30, 2019, 09:45:PM »
"At 2300 a search party, consisting of the deceased's grandmother, Alice Walker, Janine Jones and her boyfriend, Steven Kelly, left the deceased's house and began walking along the path from the Easthouses end heading west. The appellant, accompanied by his dog, walked from the west end of the path heading in the opposite direction. He met the rest of the search party near the east end of the path. Thereafter all the members of the party headed west along the path."


Offline nugnug

  • Hero Member
  • ******
  • Posts: 15042
    • http://www.google.co.uk/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&cd=1&cad=rja&ved=0CDMQFjAA&url=http%3A%2F%2Fjohnnyvoid.wordpress.com%2F&ei=WTdUUo3IM6mY0QWYz4GADg&usg=AFQjCNE-8xtZuPAZ52VkntYOokH5da5MIA&bvm=bv.5353710
Re: why search the woods in the first place.
« Reply #3 on: November 30, 2019, 10:02:PM »
well why would you asume your teenage daughter was hanging around on the the path her own.

this is amily cliamed in court that she wouldent of used.

Offline sandra L

  • Senior Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 954
Re: why search the woods in the first place.
« Reply #4 on: December 01, 2019, 07:28:AM »
The family was dishonest about Jodi not using the path alone - that is a proven fact.

Alice said Jodi would walk down the path and Luke would meet her at the Newbattle end.

Judith said she knew Jodi was happy to walk the path on her own but that she (Judith) didn't like her to and would have preferred her to walk "the long way" (down the Beeches) or to take a taxi/get a lift.

Donald Findlay put it to Janine on the stand; "So your mother knew perfectly well Jodi used the path alone?"

Janine said "Yes."

Findlay gave her a chance to think about it. He said, "Really?"

Janine said, "Yes."

So why, up to that point, had they all tried to claim Jodi wouldn't use the path alone and that there was a "standing arrangement" for Luke to meet her at the Easthouses end and walk down with her? Alice's statement, alone, about Luke meeting Jodi at the Newbattle end shows there was no standing arrangement.

But to answer Nugnug's question -  why would they assume she was on the path alone - the only logical answer is, they knew it was one possibility of a number that evening. But when you look at the rest of the "story," they didn't know, when they set out, that Jodi was supposed to be hanging out in Newbattle that evening - the only information they had (from Judith) was that she was supposed to be hanging out "up here" - Mayfield/Easthouses.  So why choose the least likely option first?

And why, after doing so, did they try to claim that they knew Luke was coming up the path and arranged (with him) to meet him "half way"? There was no contact with any of the search trio and Luke that evening until they met up. It couldn't have been Judith who told them because she said i a statement,
"I've no idea why everybody went to the path. Nobody's explained that to me".

Offline sandra L

  • Senior Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 954
Re: why search the woods in the first place.
« Reply #5 on: December 01, 2019, 07:40:AM »
This is the level of accuracy of the appeal document

"At 2300 a search party, consisting of the deceased's grandmother, Alice Walker, Janine Jones and her boyfriend, Steven Kelly,

At 23:00, Judith was talking to Luke - she hadn't called her mother back yet, her mother hadn't told her to call the police yet and, when she did call her mother back, it was on Alice's landline, so Alice had to still be in her own house after 23.00


Quote
left the deceased's house and began walking along the path from the Easthouses end heading west.

Did they? Does that explain how they got there so quickly?

Colossal error on the part of not one but three judges? Or hidden information beginning to slip through?


Quote
The appellant, accompanied by his dog, walked from the west end of the path heading in the opposite direction. He met the rest of the search party near the east end of the path. Thereafter all the members of the party headed west along the path."[/i][/b][/size]

Why did the search trio stop at the junction of the paths? If, as Alice originally claimed, they intended to meet Luke "halfway,"  why stop and wait? The argument that they were trying to decide between Roan's Dyke and Lady Path also undermines Alice's claim that they planned to meet Luke "halfway" - why would they consider a different path if the plan was to meet up with him on Roan's Dyke path. Clearly, these claims about an arrangement to meet Luke were dishonest.

In fact, Kelly said quite clearly, he didn't know Luke would be on the path that Alice had suggested they check until he saw him there.

So if there was no arrangement to meet Luke and they didn't know he would be there, why stop and wait? And why waste time "double checking" a path Luke had already checked? If it was true that they stopped to consider whether to check Lady Path or Roan's Dyke path, surely the obvious next step, after finding out Luke had checked RD would have been to check Lady Path?

Offline nugnug

  • Hero Member
  • ******
  • Posts: 15042
    • http://www.google.co.uk/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&cd=1&cad=rja&ved=0CDMQFjAA&url=http%3A%2F%2Fjohnnyvoid.wordpress.com%2F&ei=WTdUUo3IM6mY0QWYz4GADg&usg=AFQjCNE-8xtZuPAZ52VkntYOokH5da5MIA&bvm=bv.5353710
Re: why search the woods in the first place.
« Reply #6 on: December 01, 2019, 12:53:PM »
no calling freinds to see if shes there just an imdeate search of the path how did they knw she wasnt at a frinds house.

Offline Davie2

  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 220
Re: why search the woods in the first place.
« Reply #7 on: December 02, 2019, 05:07:PM »
Same tactics as WAP I see. Can I join the WhatsApp group?

Nugs starts, Sandra rants.

Have people not learned any lessons from past mistakes?

Making wild assumptions towards the deceased family, will NOT get Mitchell off the hook.

Offline nugnug

  • Hero Member
  • ******
  • Posts: 15042
    • http://www.google.co.uk/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&cd=1&cad=rja&ved=0CDMQFjAA&url=http%3A%2F%2Fjohnnyvoid.wordpress.com%2F&ei=WTdUUo3IM6mY0QWYz4GADg&usg=AFQjCNE-8xtZuPAZ52VkntYOokH5da5MIA&bvm=bv.5353710
Re: why search the woods in the first place.
« Reply #8 on: December 02, 2019, 05:17:PM »
Same tactics as WAP I see. Can I join the WhatsApp group?

Nugs starts, Sandra rants.

Have people not learned any lessons from past mistakes?

Making wild assumptions towards the deceased family, will NOT get Mitchell off the hook.

so can you explain jodis friends and they went straight to the path.

Offline Davie2

  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 220
Re: why search the woods in the first place.
« Reply #9 on: December 02, 2019, 11:00:PM »
so can you explain jodis friends and they went straight to the path.

Can i see the papers? Before i make up some wild assumptions.

Offline Bullseye

  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 116
Re: why search the woods in the first place.
« Reply #10 on: December 04, 2019, 02:08:PM »
Were most of Jodi’s friends not away on a trip that day so not many other people she could be with? As far as the family were aware she left at 5pm ish to go meet Luke and hang about. Luke then confirms he has not seen her all night. Panic would set in right away I’d imagine. It’s late and now dark, where is she, where has she been if not with Luke, as she left the house to meet him. If it was the weekend they maybe would have waited a bit longer to phone the police but with it being a school night even more of a worry and out of character I’d think. Therefore the logical place to start would be to follow Jodi’s typical  route she would have taken to meet Luke. Is that not the path?  I think they would have searched all the other places you mentioned but sadly there was no need, they found her right away.

I think jj spoke with aw who decided to go and wander around to see if they can find her, jj would have mentioned Luke was on his way up to the house. So another good reason to start the search on the path imo.

Offline nugnug

  • Hero Member
  • ******
  • Posts: 15042
    • http://www.google.co.uk/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&cd=1&cad=rja&ved=0CDMQFjAA&url=http%3A%2F%2Fjohnnyvoid.wordpress.com%2F&ei=WTdUUo3IM6mY0QWYz4GADg&usg=AFQjCNE-8xtZuPAZ52VkntYOokH5da5MIA&bvm=bv.5353710
Re: why search the woods in the first place.
« Reply #11 on: December 04, 2019, 02:36:PM »
Were most of Jodi’s friends not away on a trip that day so not many other people she could be with? As far as the family were aware she left at 5pm ish to go meet Luke and hang about. Luke then confirms he has not seen her all night. Panic would set in right away I’d imagine. It’s late and now dark, where is she, where has she been if not with Luke, as she left the house to meet him. If it was the weekend they maybe would have waited a bit longer to phone the police but with it being a school night even more of a worry and out of character I’d think. Therefore the logical place to start would be to follow Jodi’s typical  route she would have taken to meet Luke. Is that not the path?  I think they would have searched all the other places you mentioned but sadly there was no need, they found her right away.

I think jj spoke with aw who decided to go and wander around to see if they can find her, jj would have mentioned Luke was on his way up to the house. So another good reason to start the search on the path imo.

im sure they were back  by the time in question.

but how likely is it that a teenager who to your knowledge is alive and well is going to hang around a path for 5 hours on there own.

this is that path that the family Jodi did use so if that's the case why would the search a place that they thought she did not use.

Offline Bullseye

  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 116
Re: why search the woods in the first place.
« Reply #12 on: December 04, 2019, 03:10:PM »
im sure they were back  by the time in question.

but how likely is it that a teenager who to your knowledge is alive and well is going to hang around a path for 5 hours on there own.

this is that path that the family Jodi did use so if that's the case why would the search a place that they thought she did not use.

I don’t think they thought she was on the path for hours, just that was a good place to follow the route she would take to Luke’s.

Was it not just her mum that said Jodi did not use the path. Both the sister and gran confirmed they knew she used the path alone, therefore imo the most logical place to start looking.

Offline nugnug

  • Hero Member
  • ******
  • Posts: 15042
    • http://www.google.co.uk/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&cd=1&cad=rja&ved=0CDMQFjAA&url=http%3A%2F%2Fjohnnyvoid.wordpress.com%2F&ei=WTdUUo3IM6mY0QWYz4GADg&usg=AFQjCNE-8xtZuPAZ52VkntYOokH5da5MIA&bvm=bv.5353710
Re: why search the woods in the first place.
« Reply #13 on: December 04, 2019, 04:21:PM »
I don’t think they thought she was on the path for hours, just that was a good place to follow the route she would take to Luke’s.

Was it not just her mum that said Jodi did not use the path. Both the sister and gran confirmed they knew she used the path alone, therefore imo the most logical place to start looking.

but as luke had said he hadent seen her all day wouldent the logical asumption that she had gone somwhere else.

and also how would they know jodi took tht route its not the only route to get there.

Offline Bullseye

  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 116
Re: why search the woods in the first place.
« Reply #14 on: December 04, 2019, 11:02:PM »
but as luke had said he hadent seen her all day wouldent the logical asumption that she had gone somwhere else.

and also how would they know jodi took tht route its not the only route to get there.

She was known to have left to meet Luke. They had no idea where she was so a logical place to start is where she was known to be heading and follow her route, taking it from there Imo.

If Jodi was going to see Luke is the path not the way they would usually meet?  I think Jodi sometimes got a bus home and I’m sure there are other ways to each other’s house, so how did they normally meet up if not the path and why would luke wait for her at the bottom if that’s not the usual route?

I just don’t see anything strange with family members heading out to look for her and starting on the path between her house and Luke’s.