Author Topic: lukes albi  (Read 1111 times)

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Offline Bullseye

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Re: lukes albi
« Reply #15 on: November 18, 2019, 04:09:PM »
Not sure what you mean parky, I don’t think it was Luke AB saw so even if he could get there in time is irrelevant to me as I don’t think he went all they way to the top of the path. He did however have time to wait at the V.

I agree with Sandra tho, the timeframe for Luke to have carried this out is extremely tight and that has always been an major issue for me.

Offline sandra L

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Re: lukes albi
« Reply #16 on: November 18, 2019, 06:52:PM »
Bullseye;

Luke got from his house and onto this path in 7mins at night. 10.52-10.59pm.
It would take little more than this to arrive at Easthouses.
If you check the distance properly. Give him a further 9mins = 16mins.

If it were to have been from that last text at 16.38 until 16.54 = 16mins.
If you listen to CM's podcast we are told, how fit and fast he was.
Take away the darkness, and the brief searching of this path.
In daylight, easily done in this time.
He could of course, very easily have left his house, from 4.25pm.
The reality being he had anything up to 29mins to do so.

What about lunchtime - this young couple appeared to spend most of their free time together.
What does Luke say about meeting that evening from this time?
He would have been asked?

So are we just ignoring the police timings then, Parky?

First of all, Luke wasn't on the path at 10.59 - he had just arrived at the Newbattle entrance to the path and stopped to speak to Judith on the phone before continuing onto the path.

Police timings from the junction of the paths behind Newbattle High School to the V break in the wall suggested a time of 6 minutes and 40 seconds in daylight - that's a distance of 550m. At the same speed, the distance from the Newbattle entrance to the V point (around 240m) would have taken fractionally under 3 minutes (2 mins 56 secs for precision) - 9 minutes 36 seconds precisely (the police timing said 11 minutes to walk from the Newbattle entrance to the junction of the paths). So up to that point, your estimates are correct.

But there's still the 150m from the junction of the paths to the Easthouses Entrance on the Easthouses Road - you'd need to add another 1 minute, 49 seconds to complete the journey. So, in reality, 7 minutes from Luke's house to the Newbattle Entrance to the path, then 9 minutes 36 seconds minimum for the entire length of the path and 1 minute 49 seconds to the Easthouses entrance takes the entire journey to 18 minutes and 25 seconds, missig the Andrina Bryson "window."

What reason would Luke have had to leave at 4.25pm? If you accept the grounding story, he had none. If you accept that the exchange of texts was to arrange to meet that evening, he had none. Are you now suggesting that the arrangement to meet was made at lunchtime? Because, if you are, that means Jodi's mum had to be mistaken or lying about Jodi being grounded - why would Jodi arrange, at lunchtime, to meet Luke that evening if she was grounded? Or, alternatively, that Jodi's mum was mistaken or lying about Jodi texting Luke between 4.34 and 4.38 to arrange to meet him. It can't be all three.

Even if they'd made a loose arrangement at lunchtime to meet later, the only point at which Luke would have had any idea of a time would be in the exchange of texts - why would he leave 10 - 15 minutes before that exchange, not even knowing if it would happen?

Offline Parky41

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Re: lukes albi
« Reply #17 on: November 18, 2019, 07:13:PM »
Simply going by his own fitness and speed.  More than capable.
The police timings of course... Proved this also.
Simply also saying. That there is nothing that puts Luke home from 4.25PM.
Thank you for taking the time to clarify this.

Offline Parky41

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Re: lukes albi
« Reply #18 on: November 18, 2019, 07:47:PM »
This question I asked.
What did Luke say about conversations had at Lunch time?
Did he state there was no arrangement at all to see each other, that evening?
This grounding,  is irrelevant to this, are you suggesting Luke was not allowed to see Jodi at home?

Offline marty

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Re: lukes albi
« Reply #19 on: November 18, 2019, 08:03:PM »
Why would there be? I know in my version of grounding it defeats the point if you let friends or boyfriends visit during the punishment.
 Your really struggling to get anything to stick here parky when your being confronted by facts. Your not crying everything is a lie like others so fair play to you. Its easy to push false truths and distortions when others around your are doing the same. But they seem to have disappeared for the moment. You are listening to alot of facts of the case now and are struggling with it. Not having a go, just an observation.

Offline Parky41

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Re: lukes albi
« Reply #20 on: November 18, 2019, 08:27:PM »
Thanks Marty.
We have a somewhat different idea of distortion of facts
False truths? Perhaps you watched CM'S Podcast, perhaps not.
Maybe your own account of coffins and high fives?
We all make mistakes.

Offline marty

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Re: lukes albi
« Reply #21 on: November 18, 2019, 08:34:PM »
The coffin i held my hands up mate and thats because i was given false info. I would forward the message to you but fear you would give away the identity of who sent it which isnt fair as i broadcast it on a forum.
I was right about the high fives , i think😁

Offline sandra L

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Re: lukes albi
« Reply #22 on: November 19, 2019, 07:18:AM »
This question I asked.
What did Luke say about conversations had at Lunch time?
Did he state there was no arrangement at all to see each other, that evening?
This grounding,  is irrelevant to this, are you suggesting Luke was not allowed to see Jodi at home?

It's not irrelevant if your claim is that Luke could have left to lie in wait for Jodi from 4.25pm. Why on earth would he do so if he knew she wasn't allowed out? If the grounding story were true, the earliest Luke could have known that Jodi was being allowed out was the exchange of texts between 4.34 and 4.38.

I've never seen anything that suggested an arrangement was made at lunchtime for them to meet later, either from Luke or from anyone else who was in the China Gardens  with them at the time. Everything I've seen (including statements from both families) suggests there was a loose understanding that they would meet up after tea, if they could, with other friends, usually about 6 o'clock. That week was different in that the friend they mostly hung out with as away on a school trip. But that still doesn't explain why Jodi left so early - Luke still wouldn't be out until after tea - according to even Jodi's mum, they usually met up at about 6 o'clock.

So, Jodi's got no phone until 4.34 - 4.38, no evidence of a fixed arrangement to meet later made at lunchtime, why would Luke leave at 4.25pm?

Offline Parky41

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Re: lukes albi
« Reply #23 on: November 19, 2019, 10:13:AM »
Simply anything really - but certainly no "lying in wait" was inferred, at all - in some dark sense of premeditated thought.

Quote
the earliest Luke could have known that Jodi was being allowed out was the exchange of texts between 4.34 and 4.38.

"The earliest Luke could have known Jodi was being allowed out" earlier "was the exchange of texts between 4.34 and 4.38"
 It has been clearly established that Jodi got out, only after completing chores, which fits in with any "loose arrangement" of after tea, and chores of course.
He receives these texts - letting him know that her punishments have been lifted, she does not have to stay in for chores or tea.
That in itself is a clue - on this day Jodi, was most definitely out earlier than planned, she did not have to do chores, or have tea.
So this loose arrangement - of a meet later, after tea (and chores) was changed thus the texts.
Again - plain and simple. There would have been no need to text until the completion of tea and chores, to give this time of being free-early.
So yes, it appears this grounding story - is completely true.
This girl had been fully grounded, it had been relaxed;
 
Quote
“She had been kind of grounded but that had changed to her doing chores in exchange for being allowed out” – Judith Jones, statement

Thus restricted in time - you have pointed out before about the leniency on this - of extensions of time when going to "Woodburn"
So Luke would not have expected Jodi to be kept in that evening - he clearly knew of these punishments, and clearly headed to meet with her, once he knew this punishment had been lifted in full- and out earlier than expected.

Hardly surprising this pie was burnt.

Offline Parky41

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Re: lukes albi
« Reply #24 on: November 19, 2019, 10:27:AM »
Quote
That week was different in that the friend they mostly hung out with as away on a school trip. But that still doesn't explain why Jodi left so early - Luke still wouldn't be out until after tea - according to even Jodi's mum, they usually met up at about 6 o'clock.

That week and that day were different.
Jodi's punishments had been lifted in full - explains perfectly "why Jodi left so early"
Luke only put the tea on - it burnt, one brother out the other engrossed surfing the net. A burnt pie is evidence of both.
On that day this usual meeting about 6 changed, Jodi got out earlier than expected.
Even by Luke's own account, he took not time in wolfing his burnt dinner down;
5.15pm CM arrived home.
There are beans to be warmed up, there are prawns to cook, 'totties' to mash - much conversation to be had.
Luke is ready and out on Newbattle Road, barely passed 5.30.
He does not for instance - phone Jodi whilst finishing tea, or once finished from home, to let her know tea is over well
before 6pm.
He instead rushes to be ready and out - making time of course for the conversation around the infamous t-shirt.

This friend that they mostly hung out with was away;
Did Luke give any indication of these other friends whom he planned to call with Judith?
It's the little things like these - that would cause alarm bells with the police.

Offline marty

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Re: lukes albi
« Reply #25 on: November 19, 2019, 10:45:AM »
That week and that day were different.
Jodi's punishments had been lifted in full - explains perfectly "why Jodi left so early"
Luke only put the tea on - it burnt, one brother out the other engrossed surfing the net. A burnt pie is evidence of both.
On that day this usual meeting about 6 changed, Jodi got out earlier than expected.
Even by Luke's own account, he took not time in wolfing his burnt dinner down;
5.15pm CM arrived home.
There are beans to be warmed up, there are prawns to cook, 'totties' to mash - much conversation to be had.
Luke is ready and out on Newbattle Road, barely passed 5.30.
He does not for instance - phone Jodi whilst finishing tea, or once finished from home, to let her know tea is over well
before 6pm.
He instead rushes to be ready and out - making time of course for the conversation around the infamous t-shirt.

This friend that they mostly hung out with was away;
Did Luke give any indication of these other friends whom he planned to call with Judith?
It's the little things like these - that would cause alarm bells with the police.

That makes no sense at all.

Offline Parky41

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Re: lukes albi
« Reply #26 on: November 19, 2019, 11:00:AM »
That makes no sense at all.

I know Marty - not intended of course, to make sense for you.
Perhaps the word "totties" ? You mentioned myself struggling before, I did with this word you used.
The only thing I could liken it to was potato, I thought perhaps it was a typo -I'm still unsure, to be honest?
« Last Edit: November 19, 2019, 11:00:AM by Parky41 »

Offline Parky41

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Re: lukes albi
« Reply #27 on: November 20, 2019, 04:06:PM »
SL:
Quote
I often say to people, "but what if this was your son, or brother? Wouldn't you want everyone to be shouting from the rooftops?" And still, even with all of this information, they just don't and can't believe that it could happen to them.

SL's comments are of course (surprisingly) correct here.
In this actual case itself we have neither the father or brother shouting from the rooftops.
There has been mention before of CM having a stroke, not in the best of health then?
Yet still, this woman is left to "shouting from the rooftops" with the help of SL - no father, no brother.
A mother who's health is not good, left to go it alone - so to speak.
We have witnessed, still to this day how truthful CM is - perhaps the real reason why Luke's brother
and father don't join forces with her. They do not and have never wanted to become embroiled in this web of deceit.

SM from the off - within 24hrs of this girls murder was having no involvement in his brother and mothers
story.

Quote
Shane did not initially state he was "home alone" that afternoon - he said he had no idea whether or not he came straight home from work, and gave the time/route he would normally take/arrive home, with the proviso that he might not have come straight home.

"with the proviso" --- Handy? Just in case his brother and mother were not believed?
He gave no account at all of seeing his brother, of what was for dinner, of anything that was correct, other than rhyming off any
old usual routine - within 24hrs.
He has a discussion with his mother after this "for all of five minutes" . She refreshes his memory of the burnt pie. He contacts the FLO
who is most definitely not with the Mitchel's 24/7. He lets her know about the pie.
He is now starting to become embroiled in this deceit.
He still has no memory though - simply none to be had of this.
This Proviso of maybe coming home right away/maybe not - is given as he does not have to include Luke at this point.
Luke would still be at school.
Hardly surprising the police are suspicious of this.
It is in total contrast to his mother and brothers account. All within 24hrs.
Hardly surprising CM fees this burnt pie account is important - it appears all that was discussed, "for all of five minutes"
Was this pie - of what took place at this crucial time.

And of time;
CM did not arrive home until at least 5.15pm.
The pie may have been burnt but dinner was not ready.
Beans and prawns to be cooked, dishing up of dinner - and all conversation around this.
SM in his amended statements - claims to have collected his dinner at 5.15pm.
Taken it upstairs and ate it, got ready and out the door by 5.30pm.

Gordo30:
Quote
Luke always said he left the house just after dinner and slightly after Shane did He put that at around 5:30.

Very fast household, no messing about here, with the finishing off of dinner, the eating and out. Both sons for 5.30pm
Luke, remember, claims to have been at the entrance of the estate when he made that call at 5.32pm.

It appears, SM simply became entangled in this further with the help of his mother, or to help his mother.
His statement appears to have changed at least 3 times in 4 days.

SL:
Quote
Police checks showed he had stopped off to help a friend with a car problem (which Shane instantly agreed was corrrect, he had simply forgotten about it on what must have been, by the Tuesday afternoon/evening, the most shocking and surreal experience.) That meant Luke would have been home before Shane, and not the other way around. He said he usually came in from work and went straight upstairs to his room, and believed he did so that afternoon. If Luke was in the kitchen, Shane would not have seen him, and, unless they called out to each other, may not even have known Luke was there.

The reality being of course, is that SM barely knew Jodi Jones. According to Gordo, Luke and Shane were not close.
That SM neither saw or heard his brother that day - Luke would not just be in the kitchen quietly - he had his tunes on.
The reality being - that this claimed total amnesia within 24hrs, rang alarm bells with the investigating officers.

Offline Davie2

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Re: lukes albi
« Reply #28 on: November 20, 2019, 05:59:PM »
SL:
SL's comments are of course (surprisingly) correct here.
In this actual case itself we have neither the father or brother shouting from the rooftops.
There has been mention before of CM having a stroke, not in the best of health then?
Yet still, this woman is left to "shouting from the rooftops" with the help of SL - no father, no brother.
A mother who's health is not good, left to go it alone - so to speak.
We have witnessed, still to this day how truthful CM is - perhaps the real reason why Luke's brother
and father don't join forces with her. They do not and have never wanted to become embroiled in this web of deceit.

Exactly. This is one of the biggest things that have me convinced of Luke's guilt. Well among many other things, But this, Shane. All we get, he was bullied, he was threatened, he was manipulated by the police. There is only one person who tried to manipulate Shane and that was his mother. If the police did to Shane what we are lead to believe, then what exactly has he to lose to explain his side. He could have gone on that Frontline doc, he could have cashed in with the papers, what a check he could have demanded. But here we are almost 20 years on, and not a peep, maybe just maybe he has posted in forums under a false name over the years, but this is a long shot. Shane won't break cover, because he wants nothing to do with these chancers, he knows what Luke did, he knows his mother tried to cover it up. Shane did not want to do a stretch, and then be a public outcast after it, for the crimes of his bother & mother.

Online nugnug

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Re: lukes albi
« Reply #29 on: November 21, 2019, 05:57:PM »
That makes no sense at all.

i dont think parkis post are intended to make sense.