Author Topic: Shell Casings Next To Sheila  (Read 3585 times)

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Offline Caroline

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Shell Casings Next To Sheila
« on: November 15, 2019, 10:32:PM »
I believe this has come up before some time ago but, the Anschutz being a semi-automatic delivered a new shell into the chamber after the previous bullet had fired. During this process the fired shell casing is ejected from the weapon from the right hand side and had Sheila killed herself 'both' should have been found on 'her' left hand side as she lay on her back. However, the casings related to Sheila, were found both on her left (close to her head - not immediately obvious) and to her right (some distance from her body). As seen in the following diagram labelled DRH1 and DRH 2



If Sheila shot herself, how did one of the casings end up on her right side?





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Offline lookout

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Re: Shell Casings Next To Sheila
« Reply #1 on: November 15, 2019, 10:38:PM »
The shells wouldn't have been in the right places if she'd been moved ?

Offline Caroline

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Re: Shell Casings Next To Sheila
« Reply #2 on: November 15, 2019, 10:51:PM »
The shells wouldn't have been in the right places if she'd been moved ?

They were in the right places, Colins (one of the first on the scene_noted seeing one shell casing (DRH1) and he had to be talking about the one on her right (near the bible) because the one on her left wasn't immediately visible according to Hammersley

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Offline Kaldin

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Re: Shell Casings Next To Sheila
« Reply #3 on: November 15, 2019, 11:11:PM »
The same question applies if Jeremy shot her.

Offline Caroline

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Re: Shell Casings Next To Sheila
« Reply #4 on: November 15, 2019, 11:16:PM »
The same question applies if Jeremy shot her.

Not really and Jeremy was free to move around.
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Offline Kaldin

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Re: Shell Casings Next To Sheila
« Reply #5 on: November 15, 2019, 11:18:PM »
Not really and Jeremy was free to move around.

So what? Sheila was shot where she was found IMO, and the cartridge wouldn't have jumped just because Jeremy could move around.

Offline Caroline

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Re: Shell Casings Next To Sheila
« Reply #6 on: November 15, 2019, 11:22:PM »
So what? Sheila was shot where she was found IMO, and the cartridge wouldn't have jumped just because Jeremy could move around.

The shots were supposed to be fired one straight after the other, to have the casing fall on the other side, Sheila would have had to turn the gun around after having already been injured and manage these two angles.


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Offline Kaldin

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Re: Shell Casings Next To Sheila
« Reply #7 on: November 15, 2019, 11:29:PM »
I don't get what you're saying. If Jeremy shot her, the same thing applies. Are you suggesting that he moved the empty cartridge or something?

Offline Caroline

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Re: Shell Casings Next To Sheila
« Reply #8 on: November 15, 2019, 11:57:PM »
I don't get what you're saying. If Jeremy shot her, the same thing applies. Are you suggesting that he moved the empty cartridge or something?

No, the rifle ejects from only one side, in order to have the casing eject to the right of Sheila, the rifle would have to be turned around or be held upside down. Plus the two shots are at completely different angles. Venezis thought she must have been sitting up - how can she have been sitting up from the angle she died in? Her head would have had to have been leaning uncomfortably against the bedside table or without support at all.

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Offline Real justice

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Re: Shell Casings Next To Sheila
« Reply #9 on: November 16, 2019, 05:13:AM »
I don't get what you're saying. If Jeremy shot her, the same thing applies. Are you suggesting that he moved the empty cartridge or something?
I think what Caroline is saying, if Sheila was shot in this position, both spent cartridges would have ejected to the right  of Sheila, like DRH2.  We know that these two shells are the ones attributed to Sheila’s death, there is no others in the vicinity and fired pretty much after one another.


Picture in your head, a rifle above Sheila’s body, the shot is fired and the Casing ejects to the right DRH2, this shot hasn’t killed her, so a second shot and the casing should have ejected to the right the same way, why has DRH1 gone to the left when both should have gone to the right?

http://jeremybamberforum.co.uk/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=887.0;attach=4072



Offline Real justice

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Re: Shell Casings Next To Sheila
« Reply #10 on: November 16, 2019, 05:42:AM »
The shells wouldn't have been in the right places if she'd been moved ?
I think if anything it proves the body wasn’t moved or staged by the police, if they moved the body, would they have put one case either side of the body? 

Offline Real justice

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Re: Shell Casings Next To Sheila
« Reply #11 on: November 16, 2019, 06:15:AM »
Possibly, DRH2 was the first shot fired to Sheila with the rifle held more upright by the killer, ejecting the spent casing to the right and further towards the head of Sheila, this was the none fatal shot, a more upright position of the rifle would send the casing in this position.  Realising Sheila was still alive, the killer turns the rifle upside down and this allows him to lower the rifle more flat to the body, this then gives a more direct shot up through the scull and not angled, the casing then ejects to the left DRH1.

Having the sights removed from the rifle would allow the rifle to be in a lower position to the body and when turned upside down, his or her hands would be on top with the trigger guard?

DRH1 casing is more in line with a lower down rifle shot, DRH2 casing is further forward towards the head pointing to a higher rifle shot?

http://jeremybamberforum.co.uk/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=887.0;attach=4072
« Last Edit: November 16, 2019, 06:19:AM by Real justice »

Offline Real justice

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Re: Shell Casings Next To Sheila
« Reply #12 on: November 16, 2019, 06:48:AM »
It was Hammersley who found the case next to Sheilas head, this want visible until a closer look revealed this casing. So Delgado and Collins only reported seeing the casing next to the bible.

http://jeremybamberforum.co.uk/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=5817.0;attach=37840

Offline David1819

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Re: Shell Casings Next To Sheila
« Reply #13 on: November 16, 2019, 09:10:AM »
DRH1 casing is more in line with a lower down rifle shot, DRH2 casing is further forward towards the head pointing to a higher rifle shot?


I don't think its possible to determine what shell casing is attributed to what shot. This gun had a deflector plate that would make the shell casings bounce forward. Since Sheila was shot while sitting up, the shell casings would be deflected in an upward direction.

Offline Kaldin

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Re: Shell Casings Next To Sheila
« Reply #14 on: November 16, 2019, 09:17:AM »
This is very interesting. It's possible that the gun had to be held upside down to get the right angle. Couldn't Sheila have done that herself though?