Author Topic: Marks on Nevils arm.  (Read 830 times)

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Re: Marks on Nevils arm.
« Reply #15 on: November 01, 2019, 06:43:PM »
Nope! But Venezis would!




How can you trust someone who'd said that Sheila's hands were clean, then they weren't ?

Offline Caroline

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Re: Marks on Nevils arm.
« Reply #16 on: November 01, 2019, 07:04:PM »



How can you trust someone who'd said that Sheila's hands were clean, then they weren't ?

I think Venezis knows the difference between burns an lesions.

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Re: Marks on Nevils arm.
« Reply #17 on: November 01, 2019, 07:50:PM »
I think Venezis knows the difference between burns an lesions.




Like clean and dirty you mean ?

Offline Caroline

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Re: Marks on Nevils arm.
« Reply #18 on: November 01, 2019, 10:14:PM »



Like clean and dirty you mean ?

I've have already argued the point about Sheila's hands - MANY times! However, to suggest that you can better identify marks we can all actually see on a photograph then the examining pathologist is quite astounding. You can tell they're not burns - no need to rewrite the whole case history!

Offline Kaldin

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Re: Marks on Nevils arm.
« Reply #19 on: November 02, 2019, 07:55:AM »
Where did Vaneziz say the injuries were caused by the end of the rifle barrel?

They were possibly caused by the edge of either the barrel or the silencer, or by the foresight.

Offline Kaldin

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Re: Marks on Nevils arm.
« Reply #20 on: November 02, 2019, 09:16:AM »
It looks to me like he was raising his arm to protect his face. Hence his forearm has those marks.

I agree. I need to look into this more, but it does look like that. It would be natural for Nevill to try to shield himself in that way.

It's interesting though because there are several lesions close together, which suggests to me that he was just holding his arm in the same position. That further suggests to me that the lesions were made in the later stages of the attack when he was fairly stationary rather than moving around trying to fight off his attacker. I'm not sure what can be read into that, but I wonder why Jeremy would continue to beat him when he was fairly defenceless.

Offline Jane

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Re: Marks on Nevils arm.
« Reply #21 on: November 02, 2019, 09:49:AM »
I agree. I need to look into this more, but it does look like that. It would be natural for Nevill to try to shield himself in that way.

It's interesting though because there are several lesions close together, which suggests to me that he was just holding his arm in the same position. That further suggests to me that the lesions were made in the later stages of the attack when he was fairly stationary rather than moving around trying to fight off his attacker. I'm not sure what can be read into that, but I wonder why Jeremy would continue to beat him when he was fairly defenceless.

Something about finally giving voice to years of anger and frustration about his needs not being met, perhaps?

Offline Kaldin

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Re: Marks on Nevils arm.
« Reply #22 on: November 02, 2019, 09:52:AM »
Something about finally giving voice to years of anger and frustration about his needs not being met, perhaps?

Hmmm, I don't know. I just wonder what his plan was. Did he hope to shoot them all in bed, apart from Sheila,or did he expect any of them to put up a fight? I don't think that an assault/fight in the kitchen was something he anticipated. Wouldn't he just kill Nevill at the first opportunity?

Offline Kaldin

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Re: Marks on Nevils arm.
« Reply #23 on: November 02, 2019, 09:56:AM »
You see, some people have said that Sheila could not have fought with Nevill in the kitchen because she wasn't strong enough. However, I think that a fight between Jeremy and Nevill would be more unlikely, especially as Nevill had already been shot in the bedroom (hadn't he?).

Offline Jane

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Re: Marks on Nevils arm.
« Reply #24 on: November 02, 2019, 10:14:AM »
Hmmm, I don't know. I just wonder what his plan was. Did he hope to shoot them all in bed, apart from Sheila,or did he expect any of them to put up a fight? I don't think that an assault/fight in the kitchen was something he anticipated. Wouldn't he just kill Nevill at the first opportunity?


I'll answer your last question first. He'd certainly have had the choice of killing Nevill at the first opportunity but doing such might risk him being suspected and he still wouldn't gain anything because June would have been the major benefactor. Much more convenient to plan it round an already emotionally unstable sister and make it look as if it was she who was responsible. It was well planned, but we don't always think about ALL "what ifs" and it was this which let him down. I DO believe he'd planned for everyone -other than Sheila- to be in bed. I certainly don't believe he'd anticipated what happened in the kitchen -another reason for the violence of the beating, perhaps? Even at the last, Nevill manages to foil him?- it MAY have thrown him off guard which MAY have been the reason for the first and botched shot at Sheila. I don't he was thinking straight, OR he simply had no concept of the deep love most mothers have for their children, because Sheila would never have chosen to take her life with her mother, rather than the children she adored.

Offline Jane

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Re: Marks on Nevils arm.
« Reply #25 on: November 02, 2019, 10:22:AM »
You see, some people have said that Sheila could not have fought with Nevill in the kitchen because she wasn't strong enough. However, I think that a fight between Jeremy and Nevill would be more unlikely, especially as Nevill had already been shot in the bedroom (hadn't he?).


Well Adam has certainly laboured the point that Nevill wouldn't have had it!!!! That he simply would never have allowed Sheila to wield a gun and would have demanded that she put it down or simply have taken it from her. Personally, I'm inclined to believe bullets and trigger fingers move faster than people, especially wounded people. On a more serious note, I think for any parent, the unthinkable horror of finding themselves facing a child intent on shooting them, would, at the very least, stop them, temporarily, in their tracks.

Offline Kaldin

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Re: Marks on Nevils arm.
« Reply #26 on: November 02, 2019, 10:27:AM »

I'll answer your last question first. He'd certainly have had the choice of killing Nevill at the first opportunity but doing such might risk him being suspected and he still wouldn't gain anything because June would have been the major benefactor. Much more convenient to plan it round an already emotionally unstable sister and make it look as if it was she who was responsible. It was well planned, but we don't always think about ALL "what ifs" and it was this which let him down. I DO believe he'd planned for everyone -other than Sheila- to be in bed. I certainly don't believe he'd anticipated what happened in the kitchen -another reason for the violence of the beating, perhaps? Even at the last, Nevill manages to foil him?- it MAY have thrown him off guard which MAY have been the reason for the first and botched shot at Sheila. I don't he was thinking straight, OR he simply had no concept of the deep love most mothers have for their children, because Sheila would never have chosen to take her life with her mother, rather than the children she adored.

Nevill's Will specified that after certain bequests, the main residue of his estate would go to Jeremy, so there was no advantage in killing Nevill after June. In fact, some people have said he would kill Nevill first to take out the main resistance. I haven't seen June's Will, so I don't know what it said.

Let's say that the plan went wrong, and Nevill wasn't killed or incapacitated in the bedroom. He went down to the kitchen for some reason and Jeremy followed him. Would Jeremy really be in such a rage that he beat Nevill rather than kill him straightaway in some kind of revenge?

I can't read anything into where Sheila would have shot herself.

Offline Kaldin

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Re: Marks on Nevils arm.
« Reply #27 on: November 02, 2019, 10:34:AM »

Well Adam has certainly laboured the point that Nevill wouldn't have had it!!!! That he simply would never have allowed Sheila to wield a gun and would have demanded that she put it down or simply have taken it from her. Personally, I'm inclined to believe bullets and trigger fingers move faster than people, especially wounded people. On a more serious note, I think for any parent, the unthinkable horror of finding themselves facing a child intent on shooting them, would, at the very least, stop them, temporarily, in their tracks.

It depends on where that gun is pointing! I don't know that I would attempt to take a loaded gun off someone who was pointing it at me, or who was threatening to kill themselves.

Nevill wasn't stopped in his tracks. I understand that he was shot in the bedroom at some point, which would have been a shock, but he went downstairs after that to the kitchen.

Offline Jane

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Re: Marks on Nevils arm.
« Reply #28 on: November 02, 2019, 10:44:AM »
Nevill's Will specified that after certain bequests, the main residue of his estate would go to Jeremy, so there was no advantage in killing Nevill after June. In fact, some people have said he would kill Nevill first to take out the main resistance. I haven't seen June's Will, so I don't know what it said.

Let's say that the plan went wrong, and Nevill wasn't killed or incapacitated in the bedroom. He went down to the kitchen for some reason and Jeremy followed him. Would Jeremy really be in such a rage that he beat Nevill rather than kill him straightaway in some kind of revenge?

I can't read anything into where Sheila would have shot herself.


None of us, I imagine, feel comfortable if/when plans, we've put time and energy into, are thwarted. Imagine, then, if those plans, when they came to fruition, were going to change our lives in every way we believed were important. Imagine if we'd risked everything, burned our boats, left ourselves no escape room and it's so very nearly there, within grasp, so close we can taste it.......................and then the person we may believe to be the cause of us having to take such risks -at no small cost to ourselves- stands ready to prevent us attaining our goal. Yeh! I can see he'd feel pretty murderous.

Offline Jane

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Re: Marks on Nevils arm.
« Reply #29 on: November 02, 2019, 10:53:AM »
It depends on where that gun is pointing! I don't know that I would attempt to take a loaded gun off someone who was pointing it at me, or who was threatening to kill themselves.

Nevill wasn't stopped in his tracks. I understand that he was shot in the bedroom at some point, which would have been a shock, but he went downstairs after that to the kitchen.


Oh, you're right. At one point it was a matter of SO little consequence -just a gun being waved around- that, at silly o' clock in the morning, he was able to, allegedly, take time out to call Jeremy and allegedly the police -although no one have ever said whether he did, as Jeremy, and call random police stations before finding one manned, OR call 999. We have all of these facts which taken individually are feasible, however. when they're put together, make no sense at all.